playing with inside is difficult

[dawgcpa]

Actually Tiger did that type of training for many years....Hank told me exactly what he did and there's very few athletes that could keep this up for as many years as Tiger. Between the swimming, weight training, running, swimming, weight training, stretching, and oh, yeah, he also played 36-45 holes of golf between hitting ball, chipping, putting, pitching, and of course eating.

It's all in the book 'The Big Miss' - agree, or not, this book is was written about training "one" of the greatest athletes in history.

Ive watched Tiger and golf for many years. I see the change in Tiger that we saw in baseball players in the 90s. It is my opinion Tiger could not stand the thought of being left behind by the younger players. There is not doubt in MY mind that Tiger has used PED for years and it has lead to his many injuries and surgeries. I think one day we will see a revelation with Tiger that we had with Armstrong.

As far as his golf swing, I drank the stack and tilt koolaid years ago and think Foley is a good coach for him. I just don't think his body can hold up. That and his putting has been suspect.

I wish him the best of luck but he needs to lay off the roids and growth hormone.

Again, this is all my opinion...

 

[Pidge]

Jaden has it right (in my opinion). The only reason most are afraid of inside is because they are almost always more comfortable using outside. If they were to play 3-Cushion Billiards for a while they would get so used to using inside as "natural running English" it would be second nature on a pooltable.

Inside or outside doesn't matter. Use what you need to pocket the ball and put the cueball where you want it.

Cutting a ball to the left or right is also the same.

ONB

I have to disagree. Maybe for you cutting a ball to the left or right isn't any different but the vast majority of players will favour a cut to one side. For me, cutting the the right is more difficult. I assume it has to do with being massively left eye dominant. I also feel the same is true for using side spin. I prefer the right hand side of the cue ball, and I can only assume ita because I can judge how the ball will squirt and swerve when deflected to the left better than to the right.

With time you can make the differences lesser, but as of yet I still haven't found a way to make both cuts to the left and right and using left and right hand side the same.

 

[Jaden]

I think the problem is here is one of semantics.

Obviously if a person has difficulty with a particular shot over another, then THAT particular shot is more difficult...FOR THEM...

The problem comes when someone wants to make themselves feel better by just ascribing the shot as being more difficult in general.

An inside english shot is not more difficult in general than an outside english shot.

As has been stated, there may be a greater tendency for shooters to try and steer the cue through the CB when using inside, but that doesn't mean that the shot itself is more difficult, that means that the shooter shouldn't be working on sidespin yet.

As Hu stated, a good solid straight stroke and speed control can get a person to a high level of pool. That's true, but IMO, inside and other side spin shots are essential to truly mastering this game.

There is so much more you can do with side spin and it opens so many avenues in rotation based games AND is essential in games like one pocket, that I think the idea of not using side spin at a high level is a bit silly.

At the same time, I don't think a player has any business playing around with side spin until they can stroke straight and play at a high level in normal conditions.

Then it becomes easier to avoid "steering" the ball when trying to use inside.

"steering" is a big problem in pool. It leads to jumping up and poor mechanics and happens a lot with shots that are PERCEIVED to be more difficult, longer shots, etc... and makes the shots more difficult because of mechanics failures as opposed to greater inherent difficulty.

I think that everyone would find those "difficult" shots to be a lot easier if they would treat them like any other shot and concentrate on staying down and stroking straight.

Jaden

 

[Mikjary]

I have to disagree. Maybe for you cutting a ball to the left or right isn't any different but the vast majority of players will favour a cut to one side. For me, cutting the the right is more difficult. I assume it has to do with being massively left eye dominant. I also feel the same is true for using side spin. I prefer the right hand side of the cue ball, and I can only assume ita because I can judge how the ball will squirt and swerve when deflected to the left better than to the right.

With time you can make the differences lesser, but as of yet I still haven't found a way to make both cuts to the left and right and using left and right hand side the same.

I'm right eye dominant and always had trouble cutting balls to the left. Just the opposite of you. I found the problem was the large amount of right eye dominance was not sending a clear enough picture to my brain that it could trust and use from my left eye as I aimed.

I solved that by aiming the left cuts with my left eye, but keeping my dominant eye in the dominant position. My mind fought it at first, but learned to accept the new info as accurate. I never actually changed my head position, but my dominant eye shares the aiming now instead of overriding the left eye's input. Simple, yet big change to my game.

IOW, I didn't change anything physically, I just used what I see more efficiently. My left eye is sending an image to my brain, but it doesn't get any respect. :smile: Now I have to be careful to not over cut the thin ones because it works so well.

I only do this on the thinner cuts. I don't think it's necessary on a majority of cuts to the left. I still keep my right eye dominant for those shots.

Best,
Mike

 

[Pidge]

I'm right eye dominant and always had trouble cutting balls to the left. Just the opposite of you. I found the problem was the large amount of right eye dominance was not sending a clear enough picture to my brain that it could trust and use from my left eye as I aimed.

I solved that by aiming the left cuts with my left eye, but keeping my dominant eye in the dominant position. My mind fought it at first, but learned to accept the new info as accurate. I never actually changed my head position, but my dominant eye shares the aiming now instead of overriding the left eye's input. Simple, yet big change to my game.

IOW, I didn't change anything physically, I just used what I see more efficiently. My left eye is sending an image to my brain, but it doesn't get ant respect. :smile: Now I have to be careful to not over cut the thin ones because it works so well.

I only do this on the thinner cuts. I don't think it's necessary on a majority of cuts to the left. I still keep my right eye dominant for those shots.

Best,
Mike

Good to hear! Did you manage to fix this by yourself or did you have a helping hand? What I quickly learned was cutting to the left I could stand square on to the shot line when standing, but to the right I have to stand slightly side on with my left shoulder closer to the cue ball. It gets my left eye into the most dominant position for right cuts and stops my right eye from interfering

Also, can I ask if you prefer playing side spin on one side of the ball more, such as the left hand side?

 

[ShootingArts]

suspect we are in full agreement

As Hu stated, a good solid straight stroke and speed control can get a person to a high level of pool. That's true, but IMO, inside and other side spin shots are essential to truly mastering this game.

There is so much more you can do with side spin and it opens so many avenues in rotation based games AND is essential in games like one pocket, that I think the idea of not using side spin at a high level is a bit silly.

At the same time, I don't think a player has any business playing around with side spin until they can stroke straight and play at a high level in normal conditions.

Jaden

Jaden,

I think we are in full or pretty close agreement. I have no hesitation to use side spin, I just think people often fall in love with side and draw early on then fail to play a simpler game in favor of watching the cue ball fly around the table. I'm old school, the less the cue ball moves the less trouble it can get into.

Hu

 

[Jaden]

yep there are two extremes to every coin...

Jaden,

I think we are in full or pretty close agreement. I have no hesitation to use side spin, I just think people often fall in love with side and draw early on then fail to play a simpler game in favor of watching the cue ball fly around the table. I'm old school, the less the cue ball moves the less trouble it can get into.

Hu

Yep I agree, there are two extremes to any coin and too many trying to balance it on it's edge as a result...

It's great to have the ability and the confidence in the ability to use it, but it should be used when it serves the best purpose.

Jaden

 

[BeiberLvr]

Good to hear! Did you manage to fix this by yourself or did you have a helping hand? What I quickly learned was cutting to the left I could stand square on to the shot line when standing, but to the right I have to stand slightly side on with my left shoulder closer to the cue ball. It gets my left eye into the most dominant position for right cuts and stops my right eye from interfering

Also, can I ask if you prefer playing side spin on one side of the ball more, such as the left hand side?

I haven't done enough tests to find out how well this works, but I have noticed something lately.

With center ball hits, I have the cue under my chin, but slightly favoring my left eye since I'm left eye dominant.

On shots hitting the left of the ball, I have the cue more under my left eye, and under my right eye when I'm hitting the right side of the ball. Like I said, not enough experimentation with it yet, but good results so far.

 

[One Pocket John]

I'm right eye dominant and always had trouble cutting balls to the left. Just the opposite of you. I found the problem was the large amount of right eye dominance was not sending a clear enough picture to my brain that it could trust and use from my left eye as I aimed.

I solved that by aiming the left cuts with my left eye, but keeping my dominant eye in the dominant position. My mind fought it at first, but learned to accept the new info as accurate. I never actually changed my head position, but my dominant eye shares the aiming now instead of overriding the left eye's input. Simple, yet big change to my game.

IOW, I didn't change anything physically, I just used what I see more efficiently. My left eye is sending an image to my brain, but it doesn't get ant respect. :smile: Now I have to be careful to not over cut the thin ones because it works so well.

I only do this on the thinner cuts. I don't think it's necessary on a majority of cuts to the left. I still keep my right eye dominant for those shots.

Best,
Mike

This is exactly the same procedure I use Mike.
I looked into retinal disparity and made some changes to the eye I use to line up a shot.
The left eye and right eye see different pictures this is due to the separation between our eyes. These two pictures are sent to the brain and you get one picture.
One way to test this is to line up on a straight in shot your normal way. Now close your left eye, does the shot still look straight in? Now open the left eye and close the right eye, does the shot still look straight in?
For me, my right eye is the strongest and I was lining all my shots up with what my right eye said was straight in. When I would close my right eye and view the shot the QB was off to the right of the OB, not even straight in.
So, in order to correct this issue, I line up all of my shots with what my left eye is seeing.
Now when I stand behind a straight in shot and close either eye the shot still looks straight in.
Your right, the brain needs to be trained to accept this new process.

Thanks for the post. :wink:

John

 

[Pidge]

I haven't done enough tests to find out how well this works, but I have noticed something lately.

With center ball hits, I have the cue under my chin, but slightly favoring my left eye since I'm left eye dominant.

On shots hitting the left of the ball, I have the cue more under my left eye, and under my right eye when I'm hitting the right side of the ball. Like I said, not enough experimentation with it yet, but good results so far.

So you have the cue in different positions in relation to your eyes depending on the shot whilst down? I don't think I explained my self very well after reading back what I said. By positioning my eye in the most advantageous position I meant whilst standing. I do this no matter whether in using CTE, ghost ball, SEE or anything else. And for cuts to the right I have to stand slightly side on with my left side closer to the table and cue ball when locking in visuals. When I'm down my cue is always in the same position in relation to my eyes, I can't figure centre cue ball out when down if I have it in any other position.

I have a friend who is like you, he plays with his cue on different parts of his chin depending on the direction of the cut. I've tried it and I can't judge where centre cue ball is effectively, and I don't see straight as straight if that makes sense. You must be one of the lucky ones, like my friend who can have it in various positions. I envy you!

 

[Old Nine Baller]

I have to disagree. Maybe for you cutting a ball to the left or right isn't any different but the vast majority of players will favour a cut to one side. For me, cutting the the right is more difficult. I assume it has to do with being massively left eye dominant. I also feel the same is true for using side spin. I prefer the right hand side of the cue ball, and I can only assume ita because I can judge how the ball will squirt and swerve when deflected to the left better than to the right.

With time you can make the differences lesser, but as of yet I still haven't found a way to make both cuts to the left and right and using left and right hand side the same.

True enough that maybe some people have a dominant eye so they favor one side over the other but maybe it's also just as true that "the vast majority of players who favor one side over the other" just have it in their heads that this is the way it is. There are many talking about dominant eyes in this thread but the few who say it doesn't matter to them are mostly ignored. It gives people a crutch and an excuse for missing or playing poorly and that's what many want anyway.

I favor neither direction when cutting balls, they are equal to me.

I favor neither inside nor outside when shooting, I use what's necessary for the shot and position.

I also play opposite handed very well and it's a very good method to make people aware of how things look from the "other side". Once you can break and run several racks opposite handed you will, in all likelihood, no longer favor one direction over the other.

The vast majority of players are fun players and league players who do not dedicate themselves to the game, they have lives to live away from pool. They will not ever learn the nuances of the game unless they dedicate themselves to it.

ONB

 

[BeiberLvr]

So you have the cue in different positions in relation to your eyes depending on the shot whilst down? I don't think I explained my self very well after reading back what I said. By positioning my eye in the most advantageous position I meant whilst standing. I do this no matter whether in using CTE, ghost ball, SEE or anything else. And for cuts to the right I have to stand slightly side on with my left side closer to the table and cue ball when locking in visuals. When I'm down my cue is always in the same position in relation to my eyes, I can't figure centre cue ball out when down if I have it in any other position.

I have a friend who is like you, he plays with his cue on different parts of his chin depending on the direction of the cut. I've tried it and I can't judge where centre cue ball is effectively, and I don't see straight as straight if that makes sense. You must be one of the lucky ones, like my friend who can have it in various positions. I envy you!

Not different cuts but different spins.

 

[Pidge]

Not different cuts but different spins.

Right I'm with you ;-)

I do exactly the same as you in pool. I use BHE, so as I move the tip with my back hand, my head stays in exactly the same spot and doesn't follow the tip. So when I play with left hand side the tip shifts over to the left of my vision centre, then I always have a little shuffle of the feet, and then as I'm set, the cue always moves...or seems to move, its actually my head that moved, to the left so the shaft rests on a slightly different part of my chin.

 

[dr_dave]

For me, cutting the the right is more difficult. I assume it has to do with being massively left eye dominant.

The cause for this for many (if not most) people is not having one's "vision center" aligned properly. That was certainly the case for me several years ago, before I fixed the problem. If you or others want to diagnose whether or not your "vision center" is properly aligned or not (and fix the problem, if you have one), the drills and info here can be useful:

vision center resource page

In my view, it is not important which eye is "dominant" or not (for more info, see the dominant eye resource page). All that really matters is having your personal "vision center" aligned properly and consistently. Now, having said that, for some people (e.g., those with an extremely dominant eye), their "vision center" might be with their "dominant eye" over the cue.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[Wileydog]

Obviously if a person has difficulty with a particular shot over another, then THAT particular shot is more difficult...FOR THEM...

The problem comes when someone wants to make themselves feel better by just ascribing the shot as being more difficult in general.

An inside english shot is not more difficult in general than an outside english shot.

As has been stated, there may be a greater tendency for shooters to try and steer the cue through the CB when using inside, but that doesn't mean that the shot itself is more difficult, that means that the shooter shouldn't be working on sidespin yet.

As Hu stated, a good solid straight stroke and speed control can get a person to a high level of pool. That's true, but IMO, inside and other side spin shots are essential to truly mastering this game.

There is so much more you can do with side spin and it opens so many avenues in rotation based games AND is essential in games like one pocket, that I think the idea of not using side spin at a high level is a bit silly.

At the same time, I don't think a player has any business playing around with side spin until they can stroke straight and play at a high level in normal conditions.

Then it becomes easier to avoid "steering" the ball when trying to use inside.

"steering" is a big problem in pool. It leads to jumping up and poor mechanics and happens a lot with shots that are PERCEIVED to be more difficult, longer shots, etc... and makes the shots more difficult because of mechanics failures as opposed to greater inherent difficulty.

I think that everyone would find those "difficult" shots to be a lot easier if they would treat them like any other shot and concentrate on staying down and stroking straight.

Jaden

I venture to say, having a straight stroke would solve the inconsistency of play a lot of players are perplexed with. I see players shoot great for a few shots and then do the steering chicken wing on a relatively easy english shot and have the look of, "How did miss that?"

 

[Wileydog]

Good to hear! Did you manage to fix this by yourself or did you have a helping hand? What I quickly learned was cutting to the left I could stand square on to the shot line when standing, but to the right I have to stand slightly side on with my left shoulder closer to the cue ball. It gets my left eye into the most dominant position for right cuts and stops my right eye from interfering

Also, can I ask if you prefer playing side spin on one side of the ball more, such as the left hand side?

I'm having trouble understanding the difficulty focusing of one side cut over the other side. What is your eye focusing on when you're ready to shoot? At the distance you are from the object ball, I don't see how focusing on the left or right side of the object ball should look any different.

 

[Pidge]

I'm having trouble understanding the difficulty focusing of one side cut over the other side. What is your eye focusing on when you're ready to shoot? At the distance you are from the object ball, I don't see how focusing on the left or right side of the object ball should look any different.

Its not when I'm down on shots, its when I'm standing picking out the shot line.

 

[SmoothStroke]

YIKES
This is not coming up with a cure for HIV or Alzeimers. I will call it AZ research and study for the cure to confuse more people on ball striking and playing pool in general.

Get on the table and learn how to hit the damm ball, it's not that difficult to figure out, what makes it difficult is all the scientists trying to come up with a cure.

Strike the ball the way it was meant to be. It does not matter the speed,angle,spin,distance, Hit the freakin ball. Get on the table and grow some balls.

Anything less and you are Gun SHY, when that happens you shoot yourself in the foot on a consistent basis.

 

[John Brumback]

YIKES
This is not coming up with a cure for HIV or Alzeimers. I will call it AZ research and study for the cure to confuse more people on ball striking and playing pool in general.

Get on the table and learn how to hit the damm ball, it's not that difficult to figure out, what makes it difficult is all the scientists trying to come up with a cure.

Strike the ball the way it was meant to be. It does not matter the speed,angle,spin,distance, Hit the freakin ball. Get on the table and grow some balls.

Anything less and you are Gun SHY, when that happens you shoot yourself in the foot on a consistent basis.

Agree 100% and well said. John B.

 

[SmoothStroke]

Thanks John, I tried to be as diplomatic and gentle as possible. I did want to add a lot of curse words, kept seeing my grandmother waiting to beat me if I said one wrong word.

Back to stabbing myself in the eye with a needle.

Enjoyed the DVD