Please explain the advantage of a 'Slug Rack' !

[SJDinPHX]

There seems to be a never ending bunch of posts, dealing with what is called a slug rack!..First of all, a 'slug rack', can be just as hard to obtain as a 'perfect rack'!..SVB is considered to be the games best breaker, however he, nor anyone else, is immune to the kisses and bumps that occur on every single break!

Sure, squatting the cue ball in the center of the table, is a definite advantage ..But the balls are round for Chrisake, and no one can predict where they will wind up on any given break!.. I am not too sure that a 'safe break', (as in one pocket) would not insure a better chance at a return to the table, than any other method!

It appears 9/10 ball have now become much more 'safety oriented', so I see zero advantage in even trying to perfect 'slug' racking!..The fairly new rule, of so many balls must reach the head string, is the only thing that prevents this!..Why should 9/10 ball be any different than any other discipline?..To my way of thinking, you should be able to use whatever method of breaking you think gives you the best shot at returning to the table!..How can that be wrong?

 

[TX Poolnut]

If the other player runs out like water through a broken dam, a slug rack might make it much harder to run out. That's all I can think of.

If you don't have much of a safety game, you're probably going to lose anyway because most run out speed players have excellent safety games too.

 

[Straightpool_99]

There seems to be a never ending bunch of posts, dealing with what is called a slug rack!..First of all, a 'slug rack', can be just as hard to obtain as a 'perfect rack'!..SVB is considered to be the games best breaker, however he, nor anyone else, is immune to the kisses and bumps that occur on every single break!

Sure, squatting the cue ball in the center of the table, is a definite advantage ..But the balls are round for Chrisake, and no one can predict where they will wind up on any given break!.. I am not too sure that a 'safe break', (as in one pocket) would not insure a better chance at a return to the table, than any other method!

It appears 9/10 ball have now become much more 'safety oriented', so I see zero advantage in even trying to perfect 'slug' racking!..The fairly new rule, of so many balls must reach the head string, is the only thing that prevents this!..Why should 9/10 ball be any different than any other discipline?..To my way of thinking, you should be able to use whatever method of breaking you think gives you the best shot at returning to the table!..How can that be wrong?

Are you referring to rigging your own rack, or slug-racking your opponents rack? From the context it appears you're talking about rack-rigging. I've never heard "slug-racking" used about a players own rack, unless it's satirical. Why would anyone "slug-rack" themselves? Surely it would be better to just make a ball and play safe? If you are going to tamper with the rack, rigging it to make a ball would be much better. The only person I've ever seen trying to "safe-break" in 10ball in a pro tournament is Corey Deuel, if I remember correctly. I admire his creativity, but I don't think that move worked out for him.

Slug-racking your opponent will make it less likely that they make a ball on the break, and typically will cause the balls to behave less predictably and sometimes to cluster around the rack area. If they do make a ball, you may get a chance after all because the rack is harder to run. A tiny gap in a strategic place will make it close to impossible to make the standard balls. You may still luck one in, though. Also some of them are tilting the rack, moving it up and down etc., but very subtly. You need a trained eye to spot it. You're a one-pocket player, so you must know about these things. I have a training buddy that does this to me when I run a couple. All of a sudden I won't make a ball on the break, even if I hit the rack perfectly. Sometimes you find the sweet-spot in the breaking speed, getting balls and predictable ball behavior, and it becomes very easy to tell when the rack has changed somehow. I can tell by the way the balls are behaving what he did to the rack. I let it go because it's practice, and I usually win anyway:wink:. It's funny that some think it's that important to win in practice, but hey, at least I know I'm getting his best game.

The knowledge of the behavior of the balls in a nineball rack has now reached such a level that you can predict with some confidence the general area where most of the balls will end up at a certain speed, so long as the rack is perfect (like a Magic rack that has been properly set). Of course as the speed increases, so does the chaos, but low speeds are where the rigging is used, anyway. But...The Magic rack is not immune to tampering. Notice how some of the pros touch the 1 or the 2 balls behind it after the rack has been set...Also it can be tilted or moved, intentionally or unintentionally.

If you are referring to rack-rigging, these people are actually setting up a trickshot rather than racking. If you do it right you are pretty much guaranteed one ball or two balls on the break, unless you seriously mess up (in a way that a professional would pretty much never do). Also, they pattern rack, making it less necessary to move around the table with the cueball. Less movement usually means fewer mistakes. Watch the TAR Donnie Mills match to see the power of the pattern rack...Sadly it completely destroys whatever marginal entertainment value there is in 9-ball. Who wants to see a guy run the same rack over and over? When you rig a rack with appropriate gaps and placement, you can make a ball at a lower speed, lowering the risk of scratching, and making the balls behave more predictably. Surely you can see the value of this?

I'm sure there are ways to rig a 10 ball rack, but I don't particularly care for the game, being more fond of 14.1 and snooker, so I haven't looked into that in any depth. I also think there is a lot more secrecy surrounding the 10 ball tampering. The top players are keeping this knowledge to themselves.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Are you referring to rigging your own rack, or slug-racking your opponents rack? From the context it appears you're talking about rack-rigging. I've never heard "slug-racking" used about a players own rack, unless it's satirical. Why would anyone "slug-rack" themselves? Surely it would be better to just make a ball and play safe? If you are going to tamper with the rack, rigging it to make a ball would be much better. The only person I've ever seen trying to "safe-break" in 10ball in a pro tournament is Corey Deuel, if I remember correctly. I admire his creativity, but I don't think that move worked out for him.

Slug-racking your opponent will make it less likely that they make a ball on the break, and typically will cause the balls to behave less predictably and sometimes to cluster around the rack area. If they do make a ball, you may get a chance after all because the rack is harder to run. A tiny gap in a strategic place will make it close to impossible to make the standard balls. You may still luck one in, though. Also some of them are tilting the rack, moving it up and down etc., but very subtly. You need a trained eye to spot it. You're a one-pocket player, so you must know about these things. I have a training buddy that does this to me when I run a couple. All of a sudden I won't make a ball on the break, even if I hit the rack perfectly. Sometimes you find the sweet-spot in the breaking speed, getting balls and predictable ball behavior, and it becomes very easy to tell when the rack has changed somehow. I can tell by the way the balls are behaving what he did to the rack. I let it go because it's practice, and I usually win anyway:wink:. It's funny that some think it's that important to win in practice, but hey, at least I know I'm getting his best game.

The knowledge of the behavior of the balls in a nineball rack has now reached such a level that you can predict with some confidence the general area where most of the balls will end up at a certain speed, so long as the rack is perfect (like a Magic rack that has been properly set). Of course as the speed increases, so does the chaos, but low speeds are where the rigging is used, anyway. But...The Magic rack is not immune to tampering. Notice how some of the pros touch the 1 or the 2 balls behind it after the rack has been set...Also it can be tilted or moved, intentionally or unintentionally.

If you are referring to rack-rigging, these people are actually setting up a trickshot rather than racking. If you do it right you are pretty much guaranteed one ball or two balls on the break, unless you seriously mess up (in a way that a professional would pretty much never do). Also, they pattern rack, making it less necessary to move around the table with the cueball. Less movement usually means fewer mistakes. Watch the TAR Donnie Mills match to see the power of the pattern rack...Sadly it completely destroys whatever marginal entertainment value there is in 9-ball. Who wants to see a guy run the same rack over and over? When you rig a rack with appropriate gaps and placement, you can make a ball at a lower speed, lowering the risk of scratching, and making the balls behave more predictably. Surely you can see the value of this?

I'm sure there are ways to rig a 10 ball rack, but I don't particularly care for the game, being more fond of 14.1 and snooker, so I haven't looked into that in any depth. I also think there is a lot more secrecy surrounding the 10 ball tampering. The top players are keeping this knowledge to themselves.

I am referring to 'slug racking' (or 'rack-rigging') your opponent!..You would of course, have to hope he does not catch the gaps you have created!..Also, if you are racking for yourself, you can easily cinch making a corner ball!..My point is, the game should not be determined by who is the best racker, or the best cheater, if you will!..Thats why, with no impartial racker, (or referee rack) The player breaking should have the option of breaking however he so desires!

The number of balls driven above the side (or in the kitchen) does not allow the breaker to have that option!..I do not think that rule is fair, or equitable..You are being forced to rely on luck, instead of skill!..IMO, It is a silly rule, which does not take place in any other discipline! ..Breaking safe, should always be an option available to the breaker!..That could be why one pocket has now become the most popular gambling game! ya think?

 

[one stroke]

I am referring to 'slug racking' (or 'rack-rigging') your opponent!..You would of course, have to hope he does not catch the gaps you have created!..Also, if you are racking for yourself, you can easily cinch making a corner ball!..My point is, the game should not be determined by who is the best racker, or the best cheater, if you will!..Thats why, with no impartial racker, (or referee rack) The player breaking should have the option of breaking however he so desires!

The number of balls driven above the side (or in the kitchen) does not allow the breaker to have that option!..I do not think that rule is fair, or equitable..You are being forced to rely on luck, instead of skill!..It is a silly rule, which does not take place in any other discipline! ..IMO, breaking safe, should always be an option available to the breaker!..That could be why one pocket has now become the most popular gambling game! ya think?

On a good tight rack proper on the spot hit right the wing ball goes just like a magic rack
The one in the side also can go when hit right ,

1

 

[SJDinPHX]

On a good tight rack proper on the spot hit right the wing ball goes just like a magic rack
The one in the side also can go when hit right ,

1

Yes they will, if they don't get kissed out!..But every table plays different!..When you make one of those 'gimmies', what percentage do you think you have of not being hooked, or having a good makable shot for openers?..Stringing racks can look easy at times, but I've seen a lot of long sessions, where a good breaker consistently got the worst of it!..Thats why they always kept messing with the 9ball rules..They finally determined that 10ball was a game where both players usually got an inning!

PS..Rotation games are great...for spectators! ..For my cash, I'll always prefer one pocket!..I could care less, whether Joe Sixpack knows whats going on, or not! :thumbup:...(2nd choice, 8ball)

 

[Gorramjayne]

There's a reason most tournaments are now rack-your-own....


Besides, most good breakers inspect the rack carefully for gaps and can change their break to exploit the gaps rather than get tripped up by them. All you're doing is proving you're a poor sport. Also good breakers will tend to bring the balls in the back of the rack up table a little bit and squat the CB where they want it. You mess with their plan and the rack doesn't set up the way they want it, chances are it's not going to be laying right for you either, and my guess is if the skill difference is enough you're resorting to loose racking to hang in there, you're going to lose the tactical battle that ensues when there's no good opening shot or easy runout.

When I have to rack for my opponent I abide by the Golden Rule, "Rack unto others as you would have them rack unto you." I mean at least as far as gaps are concerned. If they're hitting a perfectly controlled break in 9-ball I'm not going to rack a the 3 or 4 in the second row where they'll have an easy combo on the 9 now, am I?.

 

[Black-Balled]

I dunno about sligs doing anything other than preventing the breaker from getting a lot of travel out of the rack...

But as far as breaking consistancy goes, check out the svb/ economopolus match from greece. 1 up by the corner and cue in top third of table, every time for about an hour and a half, by svb.

There seems to be a never ending bunch of posts, dealing with what is called a slug rack!..First of all, a 'slug rack', can be just as hard to obtain as a 'perfect rack'!..SVB is considered to be the games best breaker, however he, nor anyone else, is immune to the kisses and bumps that occur on every single break!

Sure, squatting the cue ball in the center of the table, is a definite advantage ..But the balls are round for Chrisake, and no one can predict where they will wind up on any given break!.. I am not too sure that a 'safe break', (as in one pocket) would not insure a better chance at a return to the table, than any other method!

It appears 9/10 ball have now become much more 'safety oriented', so I see zero advantage in even trying to perfect 'slug' racking!..The fairly new rule, of so many balls must reach the head string, is the only thing that prevents this!..Why should 9/10 ball be any different than any other discipline?..To my way of thinking, you should be able to use whatever method of breaking you think gives you the best shot at returning to the table!..How can that be wrong?

 

[SJDinPHX]

I dunno about sligs doing anything other than preventing the breaker from getting a lot of travel out of the rack...

But as far as breaking consistancy goes, check out the svb/ economopolus match from greece. 1 up by the corner and cue in top third of table, every time for about an hour and a half, by svb.

There is no doubt SVB is probably the best, most consistent breaker in the game today, and he works hard at it!..One might also wonder how capable he is at 'reading' the rack he is given?..However, 10ball, is a much different game from 9ball..He is still at the mercy of the rolls, and how the balls lay, or the clusters that can come up, more often than not!

Making balls alone though, does not mean he has an automatic out..On some tables, and under certain conditions, I have seen his break go cold on him, almost neutralizing his advantage!..That is the point I'm trying to make!..I feel a player should not be forced (by rules) to break out of a box, or drive x number of balls above the table!..IMO, that is contrary to any other discipline in pool..A player should be able to adjust to varying conditions, and be allowed to break however he chooses, like every other game!

PS..I would not be surprised if they came up with a stipulation, that the cueball must reach a certain MPH speed, to be a legal break!..I know we need rules, but they can become very suffocating and counter-productive, if we allow them to!

 

[JoeyA]

The primary advantage of a Slug Rack is that it identifies the provider as a SLUG.

Other than that, it reduces energy transfer to the object balls. All kisses and/or caroms are not created equal.

If you want to slow up a game of rotation, just allow slug racking and soft breaks. That'll get the breaker back to the table and drive the majority of the remaining players to vomiting and drinking Yukon Jack in no particular order.

JoeyA

 

[scottycoyote]

the only problem with slug racking as a strategy (beyond it being unethical in the least) is its so detectable. I mean when you break and a big cluster of balls stays there you know what happens...it even sounds different.

ill chalk up one bad rack as an accident but after that something is going to be said and the racks are going to be examined.....just dont see how it could ever be someones strategy over a nights gambling. At best someone might slug rack you to slow you down or for a final game or something

 

[Straightpool_99]

the only problem with slug racking as a strategy (beyond it being unethical in the least) is its so detectable. I mean when you break and a big cluster of balls stays there you know what happens...it even sounds different.

ill chalk up one bad rack as an accident but after that something is going to be said and the racks are going to be examined.....just dont see how it could ever be someones strategy over a nights gambling. At best someone might slug rack you to slow you down or for a final game or something

Happens a lot. Let's say you're playing 9 ball race to 9, you're down 4-7. Then you break and run 2 you're feeling in the zone and nailing the break. The opponent puts the slug on you, completely stopping your momentum. Now instead of being even, the opponent runs out and you're 2 down with the opponent on the hill...Brutal. Don't care if it's gambling or a tournament, that can really turn the game around.

I hate this kind of cheating, but it is effective.

 

[Black-Balled]

In response, kind sir...

What about performance enhancing drugs in sport? Just because an athlete doesnt win every time he is on them does not mean the rule banning them should be unwarranted.

There is no doubt SVB is probably the best, most consistent breaker in the game today, and he works hard at it!..One might also wonder how capable he is at 'reading' the rack he is given?..However, 10ball, is a much different game from 9ball..He is still at the mercy of the rolls, and how the balls lay, or the clusters that can come up, more often than not!

Making balls alone though, does not mean he has an automatic out..On some tables, and under certain conditions, I have seen his break go cold on him, almost neutralizing his advantage!..That is the point I'm trying to make!..I feel a player should not be forced (by rules) to break out of a box, or drive x number of balls above the table!..IMO, that is contrary to any other discipline in pool..A player should be able to adjust to varying conditions, and be allowed to break however he chooses, like every other game!

PS..I would not be surprised if they came up with a stipulation, that the cueball must reach a certain MPH speed, to be a legal break!..I know we need rules, but they can become very suffocating and counter-productive, if we allow them to!

 

[Ken_4fun]

..... That'll get the breaker back to the table and drive the majority of the remaining players to vomiting and drinking Yukon Jack in no particular order.

JoeyA

SJD needs no motivation to drink Yukon Jack.....(his drink of choice).

Ken

 

[alstl]

The advantage of a slug rack - by alstl

One upon time there was a slug rack. The player breaking had a harder time running out than with a tight rack because the balls didn't spread as good.

The end