Switch to ACS where we dont give a hell what you use...lol I have to agree with the original poster the banning of phenolic tips and G-10 material to me is garbage to me. Granted I can jump the balls a little above your average guy but i dont break the greateset, and in my opinion players should be able to use every piece of technology they can to improve their play. If a tip makes me pocket as many balls at breaking at 23mph as the guy who breaks them at 28mph why shouldn't there be something there to help assist in the gap in ability? In this day there is alot of great players and competition is surely higher now than ever before, so why ban something that gives a lesser player an advantage (and I can see the better players advantage as well) and doesn't really cause all that much damage.
Please look bcapl!!!
- Thread starter rbpwrd240
- Start date
Switch to ACS......Why? That organization blows and is slowly dying like it was destined to since the split.
Bill Stock already said the ban on phenolic is in place and won;t be changed.
Get on with it and put a hard leather tip on it.
On diamond tables the cushions are so live and felt so fast , I don't even use a break stick.
I reserve the use of the phenolic tip for 9 ball and crappy bar tables with mud balls.
In fact on 8 ball played on diamond tables, I find the harder I break the more the balls rebound and tend to come back together
Why not have trampolines on a basketball court in the NBA so that a player that can't dunk will be able to? Why not have a mechanism that makes the goal post wider in the NFL so that a lesser skilled kicker has an advantage? The way I see it, if there's a weak area in your game, keep practicing at it until you get better. Look at what you're doing now, and learn from it.
It's simple.
Just eliminate the break from the game and all jump cues - everyone begins with the balls in a preset position (maybe have 500 of these in a book) and see how you and your opponent do from there. It can even be equal offense so you can eliminate safety play, too.
It takes all the luck (or skill) out of the break shot and puts a premium on pool skills and execution. No jump cues allowed, but if you can jump with your playing cue, you have a skill that many of your opponents won't have.
Outside of this, I see no reason to ban game improvement equipment within the rules. If it helps those not as skilled, well that would just make it more competitive and increase the number of players so why is that bad? I do not belong to the BCAPL, VNEA or any league, so I have no motivation for or against the ban. Just my opinion.
I do have a problem with different equipment rules between organizations. How much money does everyone want us to invest to cover our bases for break & jump cues? It's not fair to us and it's not fair to the companies investing money to come out with the latest in game improvement products only to have it banned from play. The economy is bad enough for the small businesses that invest in something that will be banned the next day. Let them have a fair chance for a return on investment and maybe make some money. Or simply change the equipment rules across the board - leather tips only, no leather dust, all leather for both break cues and jump cues. Just let us and the industry know what they are before further investments are made.
Comments?
Dave
Just eliminate the break from the game and all jump cues - everyone begins with the balls in a preset position (maybe have 500 of these in a book) and see how you and your opponent do from there. It can even be equal offense so you can eliminate safety play, too.
It takes all the luck (or skill) out of the break shot and puts a premium on pool skills and execution. No jump cues allowed, but if you can jump with your playing cue, you have a skill that many of your opponents won't have.
Outside of this, I see no reason to ban game improvement equipment within the rules. If it helps those not as skilled, well that would just make it more competitive and increase the number of players so why is that bad? I do not belong to the BCAPL, VNEA or any league, so I have no motivation for or against the ban. Just my opinion.
I do have a problem with different equipment rules between organizations. How much money does everyone want us to invest to cover our bases for break & jump cues? It's not fair to us and it's not fair to the companies investing money to come out with the latest in game improvement products only to have it banned from play. The economy is bad enough for the small businesses that invest in something that will be banned the next day. Let them have a fair chance for a return on investment and maybe make some money. Or simply change the equipment rules across the board - leather tips only, no leather dust, all leather for both break cues and jump cues. Just let us and the industry know what they are before further investments are made.
Comments?
Dave
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Dave,
If every organization had the same equipment and playing rules, there would be no need for more than one sanctioning body. Do you like dictatorships? What rules would they impose?
If you are into automotive based motorsports perhaps you have heard of Jim Hall and his company Chaperral(?). His was a small innovative racing company that invented among other things the driver adjustable wing and the "sucker" car that used "vacuum cleaner" effect to suck the car closer to the ground under power. They were innovative beyond what all his competitors were doing (McLaren, Lola etc). His ideas were dangerous to competition and were eventually banned. How much money do you think he and his sponsors invested to win. It's the chance you take innovating. The racing world would have been much poorer without his ideas. Incidentally, years later Colin Chapman and his company Lotus discovered he could achieve the same result by channeling the air under the car as well as over it. Creativity wins!
Lyn
If everyone has the option of using the same equipment, it doesn't offer a benefit to any individual. Should we tell all the golfers they need to go back to playing with wooden shafts, since the graphite allows the weaker players to hit longer balls?
Steve
Lyn,
I was trying to make a point that may have been taken too literally. My post was really about the ban on phenolic tips on break/jump cues. But why can't all governing bodies agree on the same equipment rules?
I agree, why not let the billiard manufactures continue to be creative? lives are not at stake by jumping and breaking with a Phenolic tip like in racing. And their is only about a gizzilion dollars more to be made in the automotive industry which makes it a much better gamble and worth the investment. I know what you mean, but I do not believe it was a good comparison. The billiard industry is trying to increase it's popularity and this decision may reduce membership because they may not be able to compete with their piers because they rely on big break and easier jumps that phenolic tips may provide them. Time will tell.
Dave
You make a good point; however, it's not the type of material that I have a problem with. I could care less if someone uses a phenolic tip, or if someone playing golf uses a graphite/titanium club. My problem is with the mentality that seems to come along with technological improvements. When some people come across a weakness in an aspect of their game, instead of trying to improve that aspect by putting in a lot of practice, they would rather just buy something that will almost immediately improve that specific aspect. And then when some league puts a ban on that something, we get a hundred new threads about the same topic with people complaining and saying that the ban isn't fair (not calling anyone out, just saying).
The decision has been made...for whatever the reason, the BCAPL has ruled on how it's gonna be until they decide to review the issue in the future. All the belly-achin' in the world is not going to change it for this year. All these endless threads are doing is...:deadhorse:
Y'all either need to learn to deal with it, or change leagues....pretty simple.
Lisa ====> doesn't need no stinkin' phenolics!
Y'all either need to learn to deal with it, or change leagues....pretty simple.
Lisa ====> doesn't need no stinkin' phenolics!
Are we still hung up on phenolic tips??? Good lord. I'm seriously ready to leave AZB and find some other forum to fill my time with because I'm tired of all the whining and crying.
The BCA made a change to their rules...oh no! People might need to work on their skills as far as jumping or breaking or both...oh no!
The BCA made a change to their rules...oh no! People might need to work on their skills as far as jumping or breaking or both...oh no!
Thankfully I have 2 shafts for the Frog and Tadpoles.
I will keep the phenolic tip on the one and find as hard of a leather tip as I can find for the second shaft. I will be testing tips at the ACS event. Any ideas?
I have been jumping balls at the events for a while now and have never damaged a cue ball. I'm not sure that the phenolic tip caused the cue ball damage. What ever the case I will comply to the Rules, I just wish there was a little more time allowed to change our product.
I will keep the phenolic tip on the one and find as hard of a leather tip as I can find for the second shaft. I will be testing tips at the ACS event. Any ideas?
I have been jumping balls at the events for a while now and have never damaged a cue ball. I'm not sure that the phenolic tip caused the cue ball damage. What ever the case I will comply to the Rules, I just wish there was a little more time allowed to change our product.
TAP, TAP, TAP!!!!
There were plenty of us who were not thrilled when the BCA/BCAPL allowed for jump cues...CBs were simply not meant to fly...but did you see endless threads here or anywhere else with people demanding that the BCA/BCAPL change their decision? Not hardly.
Look, I had, self-admittedly, one of the worst breaks on the planet...and no break cue was gonna help that. It was something that I needed to work on...and did, very hard. Now my breaks are in a place where I am much, much happier with them...and all with my PLAYING cues, with various leather tips. I will soon be switching over all my cues to the harder Milk Dud type tips because I happen to really like how they perform, and they allow me for a better break with more balls down more often...which is the whole reason for a good break anyways.
Being able to move directly from the break to my first shot is better for me than having to walk back to my gear to switch cues.
Lisa
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Please look bcap!!!
See the thread on "G-10 tips, should they be banned!" .....maybe that thread was a prophesy....it has come true!!!
See the thread on "G-10 tips, should they be banned!" .....maybe that thread was a prophesy....it has come true!!!
Well looks like im making noise. Im happy with that and I will continue to for the entire year. The whole point of a forum is to speek your mind and ask questions. For those that dont want to hear it then dont read it.
Im amazed that the first thread of mine was about the cost and that was everyones (incl BCAPL) reasoning for the ban. Now I bring out this information in the opening post and all you HATERS jump on another ban waggon looks to me like they will do anything to hate on phenolics.
For the record I allready got my tips changed over on some of my shafts. I can use leather but think that I should be able to use the leading edge of technology in the industry. If you stop that well then you stop forward movement. The BCAPL has set and then removed rules before so my intention here is to get this removed ASAP. (next year):deadhorse:
Im amazed that the first thread of mine was about the cost and that was everyones (incl BCAPL) reasoning for the ban. Now I bring out this information in the opening post and all you HATERS jump on another ban waggon looks to me like they will do anything to hate on phenolics.
For the record I allready got my tips changed over on some of my shafts. I can use leather but think that I should be able to use the leading edge of technology in the industry. If you stop that well then you stop forward movement. The BCAPL has set and then removed rules before so my intention here is to get this removed ASAP. (next year):deadhorse:
It might though take an advantage away from a better athlete or somebody who works harder at his game. That is why Earl was so opposed to them for so many years.
If everyone has access to the same equipment, nobody has any advantage.
As for Earl, what can I say? It's EARL!!! Most players seem to like jump cues. I see them coming out quite a bit, in local tournaments, and in the hands of the pros.
Steve
i really dont get the point of the thread. why would BCAPL want to ban ph tips?
totally agree with the forward progress statement. Nobody has an advantage if everyone has access to the same equipment. I personally love phenolic tips for jumping but i could care less about using them for breaking cause i could break good with a toothpick. Even with a phenolic tip, jumping is a skill. You cant just pick up a jump cue with a phenolic tip and be a great shot maker, it takes time like everything else. No matter wat happens there is always gonna be controversy, thats why i dont play in any leagues. Think the ban is wrong, just my opinion.
