Pocket Advice, please

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thought I’d share a pic of one of my stock Anniversary pockets now after a Jack Zimmerman rail overhaul. I’m very pleased Jack! Thanks again!


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TrevorB

Registered
Thought I’d share a pic of one of my stock Anniversary pockets now after a Jack Zimmerman rail overhaul. I’m very pleased Jack! Thanks again!


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Perhaps someday for me. My monarch rubber has plenty of life left still. Jack set up my GC last year, he does great work.


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Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps someday for me. My monarch rubber has plenty of life left still. Jack set up my GC last year, he does great work.


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I understand and don't blame you one bit, it appears that you are one of the lucky ones to get a commercial that lived it's life in a residential setting. I love the old Monarchs! My table on the other hand did commercial duty for 50 or so years in a pool room in Waxahachie Texas so I'm sure the original Monarchs were replaced years ago. The sub rails were stapled out so it was probably a very busy hall. It would be nice to know more history on these old tables.
 
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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes and no. The subrail needs to be extended to properly recut the pockets even if the customer wants the stock 5" pockets. Those pockets were either butchered by an unqualified "mechanic" or there's something going on with the wood.
I had rubber redone on a previous table and about shit my pants when I saw the guy cutting along a marker drawn line with a razor blade.
 

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had rubber redone on a previous table and about shit my pants when I saw the guy cutting along a marker drawn line with a razor blade.

I would of to. Reminds me of the crew that did the first setup of my table. The lead tech ask me if I wanted the table leveled. I thought he was joking...but no!
 

TrevorB

Registered
I understand and don't blame you one bit, it appears that you are one of the lucky ones to get a commercial that lived it's life in a residential setting. I love the old Monarchs! My table on the other hand did commercial duty for 50 or so years in a pool room in Waxahachie Texas so I'm sure the original Monarchs were replaced years ago. The sub rails were stapled out so it was probably a very busy hall. It would be nice to know more history on these old tables.

Yes, I was lucky. When Jack setup my table, I counted about 3 sets of staple holes. So, likely a home table all its life.


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JohnnyP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got an email from my brother. He was quoted $300 for new cushions, installed. Total with all new cloth could be $800, so he's going for it.

What is the magic angle, 141°or something like that? Then there's a vertical angle to make the facings farther apart at table level than they are at the top of the rail. There must be a name for that. I think it's to force the ball to go down into the hole when it hits the facing, rather than flying of the table.

He signed up, don't know his screen name. Until he comes on and thanks all you kind people, let me do it for him. Thank you all very much for your replies.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got an email from my brother. He was quoted $300 for new cushions, installed. Total with all new cloth could be $800, so he's going for it.

What is the magic angle, 141°or something like that? Then there's a vertical angle to make the facings farther apart at table level than they are at the top of the rail. There must be a name for that. I think it's to force the ball to go down into the hole when it hits the facing, rather than flying of the table.

He signed up, don't know his screen name. Until he comes on and thanks all you kind people, let me do it for him. Thank you all very much for your replies.

Your brother's issue will not be fixed for the $300 cushion replacement. The new cushions will be cut along the profile of the existing pocket openings. I doubt very seriously they will add wood and recut the pocket openings for the quoted price. I hate to say it, but the table will play the same after the new rubber is installed. Fixing the problem should run around $1,200 just for the cushions and rail work. Who has he hired to do the work?
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Your brother's issue will not be fixed for the $300 cushion replacement. The new cushions will be cut along the profile of the existing pocket openings. I doubt very seriously they will add wood and recut the pocket openings for the quoted price. I hate to say it, but the table will play the same after the new rubber is installed. Fixing the problem should run around $1,200 just for the cushions and rail work. Who has he hired to do the work?
Not to mention a GCI uses Monarch Superspeeds which there in no longer a matching profile available.

My GCI pockets after new Artemis cushions, sub-rail correction, and tightened pockets.

1610987268191.png
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not to mention a GCI uses Monarch Superspeeds which there in no longer a matching profile available.

My GCI pockets after new Artemis cushions, sub-rail correction, and tightened pockets.

View attachment 581701
Good point. I didn't even think about the subrail calibration because i was so focused on the pocket opening.

Now there is really no way the rails will be appropriately worked on based on the quote. IMO, I'd search out a qualified mechanic. This is a good start: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/pool-table-mechanic-directory.54305/
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your brother's issue will not be fixed for the $300 cushion replacement. The new cushions will be cut along the profile of the existing pocket openings. I doubt very seriously they will add wood and recut the pocket openings for the quoted price. I hate to say it, but the table will play the same after the new rubber is installed. Fixing the problem should run around $1,200 just for the cushions and rail work. Who has he hired to do the work?
No way he's gonna get it done RIGHT at that price.
 

JohnnyP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just got off the phone with my brother Joey. Whoever it is will be there by nine this morning.

Fastone: What size pockets? It looks challenging. :)
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Those pockets were tightened up. Probably by adding shims. Remove the extra shims and they will be back to the original 5 inch pockets. We double shimmed my Gold Crown one but it is still not as tight as that one.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Those pockets were tightened up. Probably by adding shims. Remove the extra shims and they will be back to the original 5 inch pockets. We double shimmed my Gold Crown one but it is still not as tight as that one.

What pic are you referring to? The pockets in the original post are 5"+.
 

joe pizzuto

New member
I own the God Crown 1 that everyone is so helpful with. I have secured a pool table guy who could do that work if it really needed it, or if I insisted. I saw the raw wood and it is in perfect shape. The end pad was hammered out of shape as well as the end of the cut on the cushion. All he really does need to do is follow the wood profile and get it back to stock spec. with thicker rail end pads, it will be slightly tighter, I am willing to settle for that. With new tournament blue Simonis cloth and all new rubber, he assures me it will play like a new table. I am thinking the pocket opening will be 4 3/4 or 4 7/8. Spec says 4 7/8 to 5 1/8. with thanks, I will post a picture after the work is done. The rubber we are replacing are indeed original
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I own the God Crown 1 that everyone is so helpful with. I have secured a pool table guy who could do that work if it really needed it, or if I insisted. I saw the raw wood and it is in perfect shape. The end pad was hammered out of shape as well as the end of the cut on the cushion. All he really does need to do is follow the wood profile and get it back to stock spec. with thicker rail end pads, it will be slightly tighter, I am willing to settle for that. With new tournament blue Simonis cloth and all new rubber, he assures me it will play like a new table. I am thinking the pocket opening will be 4 3/4 or 4 7/8. Spec says 4 7/8 to 5 1/8. with thanks, I will post a picture after the work is done. The rubber we are replacing are indeed original

Is he going to recut the bevel on the subrail so the new K55 cushions fit properly? The new K55 profile is different than the old cushions on your table (assuming they are original). If the subrail bevel is not adjusted, the cushions will not be at the proper height and the playing surface will shrink by 1/4" in both directions and will no longer be the proper 100" x 50" playing surface (cushion point to cushion point).
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I own the God Crown 1 that everyone is so helpful with. I have secured a pool table guy who could do that work if it really needed it, or if I insisted. I saw the raw wood and it is in perfect shape. The end pad was hammered out of shape as well as the end of the cut on the cushion. All he really does need to do is follow the wood profile and get it back to stock spec. with thicker rail end pads, it will be slightly tighter, I am willing to settle for that. With new tournament blue Simonis cloth and all new rubber, he assures me it will play like a new table. I am thinking the pocket opening will be 4 3/4 or 4 7/8. Spec says 4 7/8 to 5 1/8. with thanks, I will post a picture after the work is done. The rubber we are replacing are indeed original
I recommend consulting with Geoff Bradshaw on this. In another thread he describes how to address the issue fo a cushion that's been cut improperly by adding some durometer 50A rubber to it and then sanding to the correct profile which matches the wood. If they are original GC I cushions they may well be good to continue to use, and all you'd need to do is some minor surgery to restore the correct angle, and then add the correct, single-thickness facing.

@bradsh98 (I think that's Geoff)

Update: here's the post from Geoff I was referring to:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/need-pocket-help.525475/#post-6855528
 
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cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
What pic are you referring to? The pockets in the original post are 5"+.
The very first post shows two balls frozen together in the pocket without falling. Old Gold Crown pockets will let both balls fall into the pocket easily. So it has been shimmed or modified to tighten them up.
 
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