pocket angles and sizes

[deanoc]

i have played pool over 40 years and i prefer the pocls on the original gold crown one,without shims and considered big by todays standards.
sometimes certain pockets seem to kick out too many balls,and some pocts seem to hang way too many balls

is there such a thing as standard size and angles?in golf the hole has been the same for ever,why do pool people keep making the pockets tighter?

 

[poolhustler]

i have played pool over 40 years and i prefer the pocls on the original gold crown one,without shims and considered big by todays standards.
sometimes certain pockets seem to kick out too many balls,and some pocts seem to hang way too many balls

is there such a thing as standard size and angles?in golf the hole has been the same for ever,why do pool people keep making the pockets tighter?

No such thing as a "standard" pocket.

I feel that pockets should be "standardized".

My table has 4" pockets and I love them.

Still can't play for shit though....

Russ....

 

[curly]

i have played pool over 40 years and i prefer the pocls on the original gold crown one,without shims and considered big by todays standards.
sometimes certain pockets seem to kick out too many balls,and some pocts seem to hang way too many balls

is there such a thing as standard size and angles?in golf the hole has been the same for ever,why do pool people keep making the pockets tighter?

I feel the same as you do about the angles and size of pockets. Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats made an interesting comment before his break and run live steam last week. He said that they change the rails (for the pocket openings) for the Accu-Stats TV table. They have one set for 9-ball, 14.1 and 8 ball and another set for 1-pocket which the pockets are tighter. You'd think that there would be a standard angle and pocket size within a 1/16 of an inch rather than the large range now stated in some of the regulations. In the games other than 1-pocket, there's a need to draw alot of shots for position and many of the tight pocket tables won't take the shot and the type of english and speed used has to be different just to pocket the ball. That can be frustrating to some of us "older" players for sure.
Curly

 

[enzo]

many times "big" pockets really are small, and small pockets really are big. i think at hard times the pockets are very forgiving, and im not just saying that. i guess it comes down to the speed you hit it, but on "bad" and "big" pockets many times hard speeds wont go even when you hit the almost exact center down the rail. go to say golden cue, supposedly same size pockets as hard times, but they really do play tight.

 

[Cameron Smith]

The standard pocket size according to the WPA is described as 4.5 to 4.75inches.

In my opinion, the size of the pocket is not as important in regards to the difficulty of the table as the cloth and the rails. I've played on 4.75 inch pocketed tables with dirty rails that were tougher than 4.5 inch pockets.

On the other hand I played on a table with 4.25 inch pockets with dirty unkempt rails that played tougher than a snooker table. Anything that was on the rail that needed to be hit at speed, wasn't going to go.

 

[curly]

The standard pocket size according to the WPA is described as 4.5 to 4.75inches.

In my opinion, the size of the pocket is not as important in regards to the difficulty of the table as the cloth and the rails. I've played on 4.75 inch pocketed tables with dirty rails that were tougher than 4.5 inch pockets.

On the other hand I played on a table with 4.25 inch pockets with dirty unkempt rails that played tougher than a snooker table. Anything that was on the rail that needed to be hit at speed, wasn't going to go.

Thanks for the info. That pocket size range seems reasonable to me.
Curly

 

[tjlmbklr]

I cursed my table buy paying BIG money to have the cushions replaced on a table that was less the a year old and it was an Olhausen. Olhausen's are know for the cushion rubber lasting for ever. But I wanted to tighten my table the right way as apposed to double triple or quadrupole the facings. But over the years I realized (well before I settled with the Olhausen) that they seem to spit balls out a lot; even when I know I struck them good.

So I asked a lot of these same question wondering why mine and other Olhausens i've played on do this. Despite the fact the shelf isn't deeper and the angle of the opening isn't much different if any from the GC's at Romines.

Then finally someone (and AZ'er) clicked the light switch in my head to realize why this happens; The Accu-fast cushions are softer so when the ball hits the facing with speed it compresses the rail thus creating a angle to induce the nasty rattle they are know for.

NOW add the fact I closed my pockets up 1/2".

So, with no further a due I give you the impossible table....ok that's a bit of an over statement. If I had to do it again I would have just tripled up the facing to give them stability and it would have been a lot cheaper. Actually if I could do it all again I would have looked for a GC! :lovies:


Anyone's welcome to try her out!

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

tjlmbkmr,

Interesting about the softer facings causing an angle that induces rattlers. I play pretty regularly on Olhausens and it seems to me the pocket shape has something to do with it. On a Gold Crown the rail facings seem to come out from the pocket more along a straight line, sort of extending the "U" shape of the pocket. But on the Olhausens it seems the facings splay out more like a "V". You can see this in the pic you posted of your table. So balls hit along the rail do not rebound as much into the pocket but are more inclined to rebound into the other facing. And since that one is also splayed out, a rattler results.

Could it be a combo of both the shape and softness?

I agree with the comment about the tables at HardTimes. Even the tighter ones in the tournament room don't produce as many rattlers as Olhausens. But when I look at their shape they are very much "U'" shaped.

 

[realkingcobra]

I cursed my table buy paying BIG money to have the cushions replaced on a table that was less the a year old and it was an Olhausen. Olhausen's are know for the cushion rubber lasting for ever. But I wanted to tighten my table the right way as apposed to double triple or quadrupole the facings. But over the years I realized (well before I settled with the Olhausen) that they seem to spit balls out a lot; even when I know I struck them good.

So I asked a lot of these same question wondering why mine and other Olhausens i've played on do this. Despite the fact the shelf isn't deeper and the angle of the opening isn't much different if any from the GC's at Romines.

Then finally someone (and AZ'er) clicked the light switch in my head to realize why this happens; The Accu-fast cushions are softer so when the ball hits the facing with speed it compresses the rail thus creating a angle to induce the nasty rattle they are know for.

NOW add the fact I closed my pockets up 1/2".

So, with no further a due I give you the impossible table....ok that's a bit of an over statement. If I had to do it again I would have just tripled up the facing to give them stability and it would have been a lot cheaper. Actually if I could do it all again I would have looked for a GC! :lovies:


Anyone's welcome to try her out!

2 problems with the picture of the pocket on your table you posted. 1, the pocket angles are to wide, which causes the pocket to bounce the object ball more into the opposit facing as opposed to deeper into the back of the pocket. 2, if the facings were made out of 3/16" neoprene, the pocket facings would naturaly be stiffer, yet not hard, but would stop the rattling of the balls in the pockets from compressing the ends of the rail cushions. When extending the sub-rails to tighten the pockets, the back of the pockets need to be opened up a little more, meaning a 4 1/2" pocket opening with 53 degree pocket angles are going to play much harder than a 4 1/2" pocket opening with 51 degree pocket angles, because the 51 degree angle offers more deflection angle deeper into the back of the pocket, as opposed to across the pocket into the other pocket facing...and back out again Down angles play a major role in pocketing balls as well in tighter pockets

 

[realkingcobra]

Look at the pocket angles in this picture, in which the pocket opening is 4 1/2" the same as what you posted. Look at the pocket angles, and compare. The pocket angles in the picture I posted are at 141 degrees, which is 51 degrees on a chop saw setting.

Glen

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Thanks RKC, so I'm not nuts. Are these wider pocket angles pretty common to Olhausens? Because I've even heard them refer to the dreaded Olhausen rattlers on TV tournaments.

Thanks.
DPP

 

[realkingcobra]

Thanks RKC, so I'm not nuts. Are these wider pocket angles pretty common to Olhausens? Because I've even heard them refer to the dreaded Olhausen rattlers on TV tournaments.

Thanks.
DPP

Well, most of the problem with Olhausen is the #6 pocket irons used with the 6 rail tables. the #6 pocket iron only opens the corner pockets so much, so then in order to get bigger pockets for making balls for the "average" players, they have to cut the pocket angles wider in order to get 5" corner pockets, combine the wider angles with soft cushions and soft facings...and you have the Olhausen rattle then take a mechanic who tightens up the pockets to make them smaller, who doesen't now how to change the pocket angles...and you have an even worse playing table!

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Thanks RKC, you are da man!!! Coming from you I know I finally have the real answer to the heretofore mysterious Olhausen rattle.

 

[tjlmbklr]

Well, most of the problem with Olhausen is the #6 pocket irons used with the 6 rail tables. the #6 pocket iron only opens the corner pockets so much, so then in order to get bigger pockets for making balls for the "average" players, they have to cut the pocket angles wider in order to get 5" corner pockets, combine the wider angles with soft cushions and soft facings...and you have the Olhausen rattle then take a mechanic who tightens up the pockets to make them smaller, who doesen't now how to change the pocket angles...and you have an even worse playing table!

Where were you 3 years ago when I bought this table? :help: :scratchhead: :banghead: :sad:

So what is the cheapest alternative for me to help my pockets? I will be re-clothing her hopefully this summer, so if there is anything I can do let me know; I am a handy man. :thumbup2:

 

[mosconiac]

FWIW, I blew up the photo and very accurately measured the cut angle of your pockets and they are right at 56 degrees. That's 5 full degrees tougher than what RKC showed.

 

[tjlmbklr]

I should see if I can sneak a camera to Romines and snap a picture of the GC's they have. At a glance (and my spacial relations is usually very accurate) they seem the same as mine. Not to mention the shelf is much deeper by at least a quarter inch. I have seen other pictures of other table pockets and in person and always wondered which is normal; more or less angle. Like Valley Bar boxes seem to have parallel facings (not sure if this would be 45 degrees). I assumed this was to make the balls drop better for faster more $$$$ in the till games.

I remember seeing the pictures someone posted of the tables at the recent 10ball tourny (I think Mika won) They were nearly parallel as well. I will see if I can find them and post it.

EDIT: Found the link.... http://www.pro9.co.uk/html/article.php?sid=929&mode=thread&order=0

Compare mine to all ten in this link.