Political Correctness

[!Smorgass Bored]

I'm Lost

Actually there has been much discussion of that in my workcenter. Wikipedia defines a Jew as "a member of the Jewish people, an ethnic group originating in the Israelites of the ancient Middle East." It DOES describe someone's ethnicity and not just a religion.

Then, why is this grouper called a Jewfish ?
http://www.fishing-boating.com/articles/gamefish/jewfish.htm

Doug
( it's ALL so confusing )

 

[ShootingArts]

It can be either or both

Actually there has been much discussion of that in my workcenter. Wikipedia defines a Jew as "a member of the Jewish people, an ethnic group originating in the Israelites of the ancient Middle East." It DOES describe someone's ethnicity and not just a religion.

Sammy Davis Jr. was a Jew but was he Jewish?

When I was a youngster there were four races in this world with some recognition that Hispanic was a subsection of Caucasian. The last US census I know of listed sixty-four categories for race with an option of "other" and a chance to describe what other race you are.

I am a fairly unique blend of roughly a dozen different "races" by today's standards, with very few people having my exact proportions of each ethnicity. I have a drop or two of American Indian blood in me so I should be entitled to my own casino. I am also clearly a minority so I should have set-asides, job preferences, government grants and aid and , . . . . what? What do you mean I'm just another cranky ol' white guy? Had again!!

Hu

 

[Andrew Manning]

I think it's okay to use ethnic references in posts but when you do so, you take on added responsibility. You have to be conscious of how the ethnic reference might be perceived, regardless of how it was intended. In other words, when making reference to an ethnicity, do you paint them in a neutral light, positive or negative? If it's negative, does your story lose meaning by leaving out the subject's ethnicity? All of these things need to be weighed out before you hit the submit button. Sometimes, it's not about BEING racist or not but how you're perceived which can be most important.

No, I was not offended.

just thought it was a heck of a post for someone to feel the need to add that the person who was stealing happened to also be Latino. I mean, you would have to have crawled out from under a rock not to see what was being implied. Just pointing out the obvious. Maybe I even helped him in the long run with his new posting endeavors.

These two posts say it all. Jude points out that you definitely need to ask yourself, when including someone's race in their description, whether that (intentionally or not) involves implicating that race in the person's deed, positively or negatively.

Then Gregg points out, and totally correctly, that when describing how you were the victim of someone's irresponsibility, their race is not a relevant part of the story, especially when their race is the only description given. When the poster includes the irrelevant fact that the guilty party is Latino, that implies the poster thinks it IS relevant that the guilty party is Latino. And if that's relevant, what's the implication there? That his Latino heritage was a contributing factor? Bingo! We have racism.

If you're describing how someone looks, go ahead and mention the color of their skin. If you're describing how someone spends their Saturday mornings, go ahead and mention that they're Jewish. If you're describing what language someone was speaking in, go ahead and mention that they're Latino. But if you're describing someone's criminal activities, and you mention their race as your only description of them, the racist implications are right there on front street.

-Andrew

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

These two posts say it all. Jude points out that you definitely need to ask yourself, when including someone's race in their description, whether that (intentionally or not) involves implicating that race in the person's deed, positively or negatively.

Then Gregg points out, and totally correctly, that when describing how you were the victim of someone's irresponsibility, their race is not a relevant part of the story, especially when their race is the only description given. When the poster includes the irrelevant fact that the guilty party is Latino, that implies the poster thinks it IS relevant that the guilty party is Latino. And if that's relevant, what's the implication there? That his Latino heritage was a contributing factor? Bingo! We have racism.

If you're describing how someone looks, go ahead and mention the color of their skin. If you're describing how someone spends their Saturday mornings, go ahead and mention that they're Jewish. If you're describing what language someone was speaking in, go ahead and mention that they're Latino. But if you're describing someone's criminal activities, and you mention their race as your only description of them, the racist implications are right there on front street.

-Andrew

Exactamundo! Boy I wish I could put my thoughts to words like some of you folks.

 

[CreeDo]

rofls, the entire thread has gone this far without the original context.

We need the original offending quote copy/pasted here to make a better judgment about whether or not neil was out of line, which seems to be an implied question in all of this.

I think applying the race when it doesn't add to the story, and when it casts the race in a bad light... is at the very least kinda dumb if not intentionally racist. For example: "Some guy keeps woofing at me to gamble, but I know he's living on welfare and won't post up." = no way anyone will get mad. "Some black guy keeps woofing at me to gamble, but I know he's living on welfare and won't post up." = loaded with between-the-lines meaning (intentional or not).

If you can tell people your stories without referring to race, at least when it won't add anything, then you probably should. If you feel the race should be mentioned, a disclaimer would spare you a lot of grief.

 

[chefjeff]

I think maybe this is the most to the point. There are uninsured drivers of every race, creed, and ethnicity. Would the story have been any different had the jerk been of another tribe? If not, why make a point of it?

Some have said that nobody would take offense if they had said a white uninsured driver, but then, who would go out of their way to identify the driver as white?

A relative of mine was recently side swiped by a drunk driver. He didn't say I got side swiped by some white devil drunk driver, some ghetto drunk driver, some "fill in the blank" slur drunk driver. He got side swiped by a drunk driver. No one thought to ask what tribe.

But why include the "drunk" description? Isn't that being unPC in reference to drunks (a sickness by PC definition)? A NONdrunk could have done the same damage and should be expected to make the same restitution, imho.

The only thing that matters to the victim in this story is that a driver sideswiped him/her. If that hadn't had happened, no distinctions would even be considered.

If you lose money at the table, does it matter whether or not the winner was drunk, white, black, whatever? The only color that matters then is green...or better yet, gold.

Now, back to my White Entertainment Television, ---You wanna BET I'm all WET?

Jeff Livingston

 

[worldison2]

sorry

If you feel the race should be mentioned, a disclaimer would spare you a lot of grief.

So this Italian guy walks into a bar with a Polish guy, a Rabbi, a priest, an Irish guy, an asian guy, a leper, a guy with no arms and no legs, a black guy, an Ethiopian, a Puerto-Rican, an Iraqi, a lesbian, and a Jew. The bartender says...."Hey, what is this....some kind of joke?"
Sorry if I left anyone out. (There's the disclaimer)

 

[Andrew Manning]

I think applying the race when it doesn't add to the story, and when it casts the race in a bad light... is at the very least kinda dumb if not intentionally racist. For example: "Some guy keeps woofing at me to gamble, but I know he's living on welfare and won't post up." = no way anyone will get mad. "Some black guy keeps woofing at me to gamble, but I know he's living on welfare and won't post up." = loaded with between-the-lines meaning (intentional or not).

Yeah, this paragraph is entirely the heart of the matter. Intentional or not, the second quote does sound racist, because of the between-the-lines implications brought in by adding the race. If it's intentional, it's clearly racist. If it's not intentional, I think way more often than not it's the result of a person's racial biases that they may not ever consciously think about. This is still racism, and although it's not as malicious as the intentional kind, it's just as much of a problem, and the more people recognize it and consciously don't do it, the more race relations can advance towards true fair dealings for all.

-Andrew

 

[crosseyedjoe]

All I can say is that the only person that disgusts me more than a racist is someone who claims to be not racist, and who thinks it's OK for him to use questionable ethnic references.

There is just something fundamentally wrong about it.

See the picture below, I posted it before. Notice the description; ". . . Comfortable heat-resistant are worn for protection and nothing more."

This is probably the best representation of what I think about people who claim to be not racist but use racist words anyways. This is just a "heat-resistant robe" don't worry about it. When he is showing me that eriely familiar hood and robe.

 

[crawfish]

Wet, and me.

But why include the "drunk" description? Isn't that being unPC in reference to drunks (a sickness by PC definition)? A NONdrunk could have done the same damage and should be expected to make the same restitution, imho.

The only thing that matters to the victim in this story is that a driver sideswiped him/her. If that hadn't had happened, no distinctions would even be considered.

If you lose money at the table, does it matter whether or not the winner was drunk, white, black, whatever? The only color that matters then is green...or better yet, gold. We should all be able to laugh at ourselves and with eachother.

Now, back to my White Entertainment Television, ---You wanna BET I'm all WET?

Jeff Livingston

I have been using the "WET" channel for years with my black friends. I am also in the running for "Miss Black America." I am a 40 year old, bald, white guy (see, I am not offended). If I am not chosen, is it rascist, prejudice, or what?

 

[jgpool]

I understand

All I can say is that the only person that disgusts me more than a racist is someone who claims to be not racist, and who thinks it's OK for him to use questionable ethnic references.

There is just something fundamentally wrong about it.

See the picture below, I posted it before. Notice the description; ". . . Comfortable heat-resistant are worn for protection and nothing more."

This is probably the best representation of what I think about people who claim to be not racist but use racist words anyways. This is just a "heat-resistant robe" don't worry about it. When he is showing me that eriely familiar hood and robe.

I understand what you are saying. Conversly I feel that it is fundamentally wrong to judge someone's choice of words without knowing their intentions. JMO

That is IMO is doing exactly what you are accusing his speech of. Profiling, descrimination and
NON-PC.

 

[DaveK]

I am also in the running for "Miss Black America." I am a 40 year old, bald, white guy (see, I am not offended). If I am not chosen, is it rascist, prejudice, or what?

It would simply be a matter of good taste.

Dave, soon to be turning slightly blue

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I understand what you are saying. Conversly I feel that it is fundamentally wrong to judge someone's choice of words without knowing their intentions. JMO

That is IMO is doing exactly what you are accusing his speech of. Profiling, descrimination and
NON-PC.

Unless it is academic, those questionable ethnic references have no place in non-racist vocabulary regardless of intention.

 

[jgpool]

Judging

Unless it is academic, those questionable ethnic references have no place in non-racist vocabulary regardless of intention.

Your still judging. What controlling speech authority says "questionable ethnic references have no place in non-racist vocabulary"?

 

[ShootingArts]

who is the racist?

Coming back from New Orleans International Airport today, I see an old colored man walking down the side of the highway in the wetlands. He is filthy and walking funny, as likely as not falling down drunk at one in the afternoon. Just looking at him I am sure he stinks, literally. Problem is he has to be walking in whatever condition he is in for at least another three miles or so to reach his destination, there isn't any human habitation for miles.

I drive a mile or more to the first crossover to go back the other way, a half mile past the old negro before I can cross over again, and stop just in front of him to give him a ride. I then go another several miles out of my way to deliver him where he needed to go. He did stink, he wasn't drunk, he had a bad foot he had already walked miles on.

Who is the racist or bigoted against old people, me because I don't talk PC all of the time or the hundreds of people who wouldn't dream of saying colored people or negro that drove past him before I stopped to help him?

Hu

 

[jgpool]

Here Here!!

Coming back from New Orleans International Airport today, I see an old colored man walking down the side of the highway in the wetlands. He is filthy and walking funny, as likely as not falling down drunk at one in the afternoon. Just looking at him I am sure he stinks, literally. Problem is he has to be walking in whatever condition he is in for at least another three miles or so to reach his destination, there isn't any human habitation for miles.

I drive a mile or more to the first crossover to go back the other way, a half mile past the old negro before I can cross over again, and stop just in front of him to give him a ride. I then go another several miles out of my way to deliver him where he needed to go. He did stink, he wasn't drunk, he had a bad foot he had already walked miles on.

Who is the racist or bigoted against old people, me because I don't talk PC all of the time or the hundreds of people who wouldn't dream of saying colored people or negro that drove past him before I stopped to help him?

Hu

Nice! It is still in the eyes of the "JUDGE". Whoever feels like they know what is best. Will try to bestow onto you their rules of speech and or actions.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Your still judging. What controlling speech authority says "questionable ethnic references have no place in non-racist vocabulary"?

When you say something, the burden is on you to make sure you are understood. You should make your intentions known. If you are not supposed to offend somebody, then damn it choose a better word.

 

[JesPiddlin]

When you say something, the burden is on you to make sure you are understood. You should make your intentions known. If you are not supposed to offend somebody, then damn it choose a better word.

You may not realize it, but you have offended many people by using the "d" word. Where was your better word?

 

[jgpool]

Responsibility

When you say something, the burden is on you to make sure you are understood. You should make your intentions known. If you are not supposed to offend somebody, then damn it choose a better word.

I will take responsibility for all I say. When I say something I will accept the consequences when I intend to hurt someone, and I will not accept the consequenses when I do not intend to hurt someone. It's up to me if I determine that I want to intentionally hurt someone. Not the person monitoring my speech or my actions. No controlling authority. I controll my intentions. With all due respect. I think we agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I Used To Receive David Duke Material In The Mail

Coming back from New Orleans International Airport today, I see an old colored man walking down the side of the highway in the wetlands. He is filthy and walking funny, as likely as not falling down drunk at one in the afternoon. Just looking at him I am sure he stinks, literally. Problem is he has to be walking in whatever condition he is in for at least another three miles or so to reach his destination, there isn't any human habitation for miles.

I drive a mile or more to the first crossover to go back the other way, a half mile past the old negro before I can cross over again, and stop just in front of him to give him a ride. I then go another several miles out of my way to deliver him where he needed to go. He did stink, he wasn't drunk, he had a bad foot he had already walked miles on.

Who is the racist or bigoted against old people, me because I don't talk PC all of the time or the hundreds of people who wouldn't dream of saying colored people or negro that drove past him before I stopped to help him?

Hu

Who are the racist ? The 'bubbas' that took a few pot shots at him as they drove past.....
Doug
( I've seen Easy Rider plenty of times.......... AND, I'm from New Orleans (though not recently)