Pool as a players game.

[Donny Lutz]

Not a spectator sport?

I agree that pool is a players game... And I think it will stay that way as long as the only games that get TV time are non 8-ball games.

I get why it doesn't get more media exposure... Not very spectator friendly, fragmented leagues and governing bodies, lot's of different games & rules, etc... And not enough money involved compared to other sports.

And If pool is to ever truly be successful on TV, I think the primary game on the air needs to be 8-ball so that the general population doesn't need a basic re-education to the game. I know the pro's typically prefer other games, but for the good of developing interest, they should suck it up and embrace 8-ball to sell the game on a broader scale. EVERYBODY knows basic 8-ball rules.

A hundred years ago, people filled huge auditoriums to watch balkline and billiards. By the thousands. People in the back had to use opera glasses to see the table.

More people play pool than play football, baseball, tennis or golf.

But the other sports (at least for men) have been offered to kids in grade school for a century. They have been marketed by huge corporations that understood that you must PROMOTE any sport for it to be a success.

Pool has the advantage of being played indoors (no stadiums necessary), and people play it into their advanced years. It's almost no investment for beginners, and requires neither strength or size.

It's lack of current success in this country is, in my opinion, due to people in the business thinking they can make money without promoting the game...owners of billiard establishments in particular. Far too many proprietors think promoting their business means offering drink specials and little else...

In addition, as I've posted before, it takes cooperation rather than just competition (in the business department) and this is a disappearing skill in America. Too much "me first", rather than "Let's work together to be successful".

 

[bdorman]

Perhaps we should petition and demand that our government (USA) recognize pool as a sport and support the players and the sport as many other countries around the world do.

If our government spends a few dollars on the sport, the perhaps the citizens of the USA would pay more attention to the sport.

I can't think of one other sport the US Government "recognizes" or "supports." The former East Germany and Soviet Union were big on supporting favored sports and athletes. There's a reason we don't ask/want the government so involved in everyday matters like sports.

As far as pool in public schools...has anyone advocating this been to a school district budget meeting in the last 15 years? They're trying to figure out how to keep recess for the younger kids and existing sports for the older ones -- and they can't figure it out. They're cutting programs, not adding. For a dose of reality, go to a school board budget meeting.

Bottom line is that pool's growth (if it's going to grow at all) will come from the area we love to hate: casual players in leagues. Pool will grow as a social game that involves a little friendly competition. Drinking, talking, flirting, having fun with friends.

It's like my wife's motivation in our bowling league. She tries hard to break 100, but the primary reason she's there is to have fun with her friends. She bought a ball and shoes (for women, every activity must involve shoes!), but she wouldn't lift a finger to watch pro bowling or get more involved in the "sport." To league players the game is social, not sport.

But the good news is that one out of every ten new players will take it more seriously than just socially. They'll take lessons, buy gear and enter competitive tournaments. They'll buy table time to practice. They'll try to get their friends interested. The best ones will pay good money to enter pro tournaments just to see how they measure up (and thereby grow the amount of money in pro pool).

Grow the social aspect of the game, and the game will grow. Trying to grow the professional aspect is pushing on a string. The government and schools are looking to cut programs, not add.

 

[jaetee]

A hundred years ago, people filled huge auditoriums to watch balkline and billiards. By the thousands. People in the back had to use opera glasses to see the table.

More people play pool than play football, baseball, tennis or golf.

But the other sports (at least for men) have been offered to kids in grade school for a century. They have been marketed by huge corporations that understood that you must PROMOTE any sport for it to be a success.

Pool has the advantage of being played indoors (no stadiums necessary), and people play it into their advanced years. It's almost no investment for beginners, and requires neither strength or size.

It's lack of current success in this country is, in my opinion, due to people in the business thinking they can make money without promoting the game...owners of billiard establishments in particular. Far too many proprietors think promoting their business means offering drink specials and little else...

In addition, as I've posted before, it takes cooperation rather than just competition (in the business department) and this is a disappearing skill in America. Too much "me first", rather than "Let's work together to be successful".

All very good points, but 200 years ago you did not have nearly the same entertainment options and time-killers to capture young and old minds as in modern times. I think the derailing of the flow of youth players into Pool is probably more in direct correlation with the advances in solid state electronics than any other identifiable thing...

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

While I agree professional pool could be bigger than it is now (can't get any smaller, right?), it just is never going to be a big time spectator sport. Yeah, a lot of people used to watch it and results were in the sports pages etc., but those were different, and simpler times, and it's tough to go back. I just don't see Americans ever gathering around the radio in their homes to listen to Amos and Andy again.

 

[kaylaemarx]

Billiards is a game that is often played in a more casual environment such as a club or special hall and is the type of game that people often play when they go out for an evening with friends.

 

[genomachino]

Glad to see you back my friend.....

Its been a while since I have posted anything. I have been off the forum for a while and completely out of the pool loop. When I came back to the forum the other day everything appears to be normal: players getting stiffed, rooms closing, the poor state of pro pool, bonus ball etc. etc.

After reading a few threads about the sad state of pro pool and the ambivalent attitudes folks have about bonus ball confirms something I have believed for years: POOL IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT and it never will be. Lets face it pool is horrible t.v. that nobody not even pool fans are going to buy.

The only people making serious money off of pool are the leagues and suppliers. I say all of this to encourage anyone who wants to "promote" pool to invest their time and money in to bringing in more players of pool and not more spectators of pool.

How are the kids doing down there.

 

[voiceofreason]

I don't think it can ever appeal to the masses because I think you have to appreciate how difficult it is when you're watching the greats make it look simple.

I don't accept that. That assertion can be applied to any sport at all.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Yes.

All very good points, but 200 years ago you did not have nearly the same entertainment options and time-killers to capture young and old minds as in modern times. I think the derailing of the flow of youth players into Pool is probably more in direct correlation with the advances in solid state electronics than any other identifiable thing...

Excellent point.

 

[jojopiff]

I don't accept that. That assertion can be applied to any sport at all.

But most people have played the big sports (football,baseball, basketball, etc) in some sort of competitive realm & at least grasp the idea of how much better people were than them. Even if were Middle School or High School athletics.

I think most people know they can't hit a 100mph fastball or run a 4.4 40yd. But people see guy making pool shots & he remembers that one time he made all his balls without missing when he was drunk, or at least that's how he remembers it!

 

[JoeyA]

In my opinion the first priority of the pool industry should be building pool in to an NCAA sport. The game quidditch from the Harry Potter novels are on track to be sanctioned by the NCAA so why shouldn't pool? The next priority should be building high school leagues within public schools.

Years ago I went to the Galveston world classic which had a pro side and a amateur side. I noticed that very few of the amateurs took the time to sweat many of the pro matches which illustrates my original point.

Again I think the focus should be involving people in playing pool not trying to come up with a formula for them to watch it.

mnorwood, you know that I like what you have tried to do where you are located as far as the kids are concerned and I think you are right. Get the youth involved.

But CANDIDLY, how popular was your program and what was the response of the youth?

I'm just wondering if the youth truly wants to spend their time playing and practicing pool.

Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[mnorwood]

mnorwood, you know that I like what you have tried to do where you are located as far as the kids are concerned and I think you are right. Get the youth involved.

But CANDIDLY, how popular was your program and what was the response of the youth?

I'm just wondering if the youth truly wants to spend their time playing and practicing pool.

Thanks,
JoeyA

I will tell you that my arrangement wasn't ideal. In my opinion the model program is in dallas and is ran by earl munson.

My program was limited because the grant did not allow competition between campuses. Therefore we really couldn't do team building and run it like other sports. Second we were limited by time and inconsistent attendance which made running internal competitions difficult. Also I only had any given group for one hour a week with very few of them having access to tables outside of the program.

I would say out of any given group of 20 students I had 5 that were really interested in doing something with the game. It was usually that number of kids that would learn some decent fundamentals.

I had plenty of people step up and make the program happen but I have never been able to gain any momentum and spread it to other campuses. Other schools were interested they just didn't have the space. Over the years some pool industry folk have expressed soft interest in looking in to creating a room for juniors but that never went anywhere.

They always talk about promoting the game, but then they say they have to make a profit and then throw their money away doing a money losing tournament. Why not take that kind of risk on a junior room that might break even selling concessions? I really don't know and have resigned myself to the fact that this type of thing is never going to happen.

 

[DGilb147]

I am not a Geography expert, but I'm reasonably sure that this is not
Germany either - and I am quite positive it isn't China. To belabor the
painfully obvious for you - there is an ongoing longing on this forum to
somehow magically transform pool into a spectator sport IN AMERICA
which would also magically revitalize "the game".

There are a myriad of reasons why this is not going to happen -
not the least of which is that Americanos just are not interested in
watching highly skilled pool players - neither live nor in person.

And - BTW - the variety of games has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Find me ONE witness who has ever said he doesn't watch pool because
they play it too many ways. That is, one witness who is not an efete
Snooker Snob.

Dale

Hi Dale

it was not easy but I found some one his name is Roger Holburd
he refuses to watch pool because there are too many versions.


I think the point is that to get the general public to watch pool
it needs to be on the telly.

I would suggest it has to be one game with standard rules and equipment,
to stand a chance.

 

[CreeDo]

Recently I had a sort of night-and-day experience with the same stream,
in terms of viewing interest.

First match, the play was rough. audio and visual quality were ok, though there was a glitch at one point.
But even if the stream were beautiful and flawless I'd still have shut it off.
I didn't know the players, wasn't invested in either of them, and it was a blowout.

The next night, the quality of play is much improved. I initially wasn't going to watch,
but loaded it on my phone just to check the score. Found that it was close.

I was actively rooting against one of the players, who beat up his girlfriend and arranged an armed robbery.
And it looked like that guy was creeping his way back into the match and might pull ahead at any minute.
Even with a tiny screen, and even though I couldn't hear the audio (was at a pool hall),
I ended up watching it much more intensely. Others at the pool hall watched when I was shooting,
probably helped that I told them it was basically Loudmouth Wifebeater vs. Top 5 Player In The World.
Who can resist that story?

I was glued to the screen for the final half dozen racks.

So, you're half right. Pool, the game itself... balls moving on the table and falling into holes...
that's kind of dull. Even when played well, I can get bored watching it.
But that doesn't mean pool is unwatchable.
You just need to make the players the focus, not the game itself.

 

[bdorman]

Even when played well, I can get bored watching it.
But that doesn't mean pool is unwatchable.
You just need to make the players the focus, not the game itself.

Allowing (or encouraging) the players to be more animated during the match would help, but it doesn't solve the problem that the game is just too boring for the general public. I'd like to see more wolfing/trash-talking between shots. I think the pool would be just as good; it would just be more entertaining.

But that's just a minor change to attract more dyed-in-the-wool pool fans. It's not going to change the public's attitude toward the game.

As I've mentioned before, I've invited pool-playing friends over to watch pro match videos. These are C/D players who play once or twice a week. They watch for about 2-5 minutes and then lose interest. My wife will watch any basketball game on TV even though she's never even held a basketball. She watched 20 minutes of a great match between SVB-Strickland and said "What do you see in this game? It puts me to sleep."