Pool instructors and their level of play??
- Thread starter APA7
- Start date
Those who can -- do.
Those who can't -- teach.
Those who can't teach -- teach teachers !
Posted on the Psychology Grad Department wall at Ohio State when I attended.
I used to teach and found that there is much that can be done to motivate people to learn more about a topic.
I used to have pre and post doctoral students and found that unless the intern had a good fund of knowledge, learned from books, It was not possible to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse.
Some of the best therapists I have met are bartenders, no books, no internships but they often get out of their depth because of a lack of knowledge.
Professionals in any area must have a depth of knowledge of the principles and practices that enables them to deal with new situations.
When teaching at the University I routinely told students that everything they learned was ten years out of date. Their books were, at best, written five years ago and they would not be working for four or five more years. We can only teach the principles of how to learn including the important ways to learn and what to look for. Professionalism comes with learning how to apply and that begins when the student is learning.
Some things are learned from teachers. Some things are learned from coaches (by whatever name) but real learning is from the student who applies him or her self to what has been shown or demonstrated.
Those who can't -- teach.
Those who can't teach -- teach teachers !
Posted on the Psychology Grad Department wall at Ohio State when I attended.
I used to teach and found that there is much that can be done to motivate people to learn more about a topic.
I used to have pre and post doctoral students and found that unless the intern had a good fund of knowledge, learned from books, It was not possible to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse.
Some of the best therapists I have met are bartenders, no books, no internships but they often get out of their depth because of a lack of knowledge.
Professionals in any area must have a depth of knowledge of the principles and practices that enables them to deal with new situations.
When teaching at the University I routinely told students that everything they learned was ten years out of date. Their books were, at best, written five years ago and they would not be working for four or five more years. We can only teach the principles of how to learn including the important ways to learn and what to look for. Professionalism comes with learning how to apply and that begins when the student is learning.
Some things are learned from teachers. Some things are learned from coaches (by whatever name) but real learning is from the student who applies him or her self to what has been shown or demonstrated.
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Some things are learned from teachers. Some things are learned from coaches (by whatever name) but real learning is from the student who applies him or her self to what has been shown or demonstrated.(Quote from JoeW post)
JoeW, Well said!
Stan Shuffett
JoeW, Well said!
Stan Shuffett
JoeW said:
JoeW, perhaps I am missing something, but does your post somehow help unravel the mystery of whether we should seek out an instructor who is also a shooter?
shankster8 said:
Not much of a mystery shooting and teaching are totally different crafts. I would think that money spent on an instructor would be better spent with someone who can really teach rather than a top touring pro. I have had a couple of celebrity lessons and got very little from either one of them exceot to learn a couple of new drills which I could have gotten from a book. I have also had instruction from an instructor who is little known and gotten tons of stuff from him. He is a great player yes but amongst the pros probably a lamb amongst the lions.
shankster8 said:
I am suggesting that both forms of instruction are needed but that the responsibility for the application of knowledge rests with the student.
One is not "better" than another because each contributes in a different way. It is not so much that people learn better with one or another method -- both are useful for different reasons and depend upon the student's level of knowledge.
In academia the student is not ready for a coach until they have mastered some amount of book learning. In my opinion, and I taught this way for many years, the student learns best when they study and apply at the same time: Read "X" and now go apply it to problem "Y." Simple applications do not require a coach. Complex applications (such as presented on internships in the real world) require a coach for guidance in the refinement and application of new knowledge.
In today's world knowledge is expanding rapidly and no matter what field of endeavor the professional is, or should be, continually learning new things. This is why nearly all professions have continuing education requirements. In the continuing pursuit of improving ones' ability it is necessary to read and gain experience. At all tmes book work and coaching are needed to continually improve.
Good teachers are where you find them and as pointed out before teaching is a profession unto itself. Some pros are good teachers some are not. In any field of endeavor the teacher must have more knowledge than the student in the area under consideration. It is not that one cannot learn from the less experienced it has more to do with the efficiency of learning. Those with poor abilities (teaching or playing) can not teach what they do not know.
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Joe, Very good post! I tell many students that I can't teach them to play pool, but I can teach them how to learn to play pool.
As instructors, we give our students the knowledge and tools they need to excel, and even guide them through the learning process...but it's really up to them what they are going to do with it all.
Steve
Steve
As instructors, we give our students the knowledge and tools they need to excel, and even guide them through the learning process...but it's really up to them what they are going to do with it all.
Steve
Steve
thebigdog said:
All very good points.
I think it should be pointed out that NFL coaches (or assistants) don't really do a lot of "teaching". Most of their players learned from their coaches in Pee-wee, middle and high school, and in college. By the time they get to the NFL, the coach isn't teaching, as much as helping them refine their fundamentals. The NFL players already know what they are supposed to do, and how it is supposed to be done. Coaches at that level have a much different job than a Middle School coach. And not too many middle schools have former NFL stars teaching the kids, yet I believe they are the true teachers of the game.
Steve
Player and instructor "Little Al" Romero
Another person that knows a lot about the game is Don Hopkins. People talk about coaching from someone that may not play as well as themselves; Don Hopkins knows a lot about this game. If anybody has a chance to get advice from her, listen to it, she knows the right way to play.
Another person that knows a lot about the game is Don Hopkins. People talk about coaching from someone that may not play as well as themselves; Don Hopkins knows a lot about this game. If anybody has a chance to get advice from her, listen to it, she knows the right way to play.
swami4u
Banned
T411 said:
Depends what you want to learn.....
If you want to learn how to win, what it takes to be the best, sacrifices, dedication, ect ect.... you need to talk to someone who has done it....
Not someone who acts like it...
If you want to learn how to pocket shot 'A' into pocket '1'...then you need to find someone that understands mechanics . This person doesn't need to be able to execute the shot, just know the right way to do it, and explain it.
Also he has to be able to see where the mistakes are.
super post
Great post Joe. The shorter version, great teachers teach you how to learn and motivate you to do so. Most pool players don't need motivation but many people don't know how to learn, most particularly how to learn efficiently.
Hu
Great post Joe. The shorter version, great teachers teach you how to learn and motivate you to do so. Most pool players don't need motivation but many people don't know how to learn, most particularly how to learn efficiently.
Hu
JoeW said:
Joe
I have talked to a handful of instructors. No question that out of all of them I have talked to, I would go to Joe Villalpando first. Many instructors know a lot, many want to be instructors, but Joe has the knowledge and seemingly a burning desire to pass it on. He has also worked very hard to be able to communicate clearly. Perhaps most importantly, Joe and I were on the same page ten minutes after I started talking to him. Someone can have all the other tools to be a great instructor but if the student isn't comfortable with the instructor they are not going to benefit nearly as much from instruction.
Hu
APA7 said:Top teachers that R good 2 very good players~ Jerry Briesath, Joe Villapando, Mark Wilson, N more. Why R they the best?
Brian
I have talked to a handful of instructors. No question that out of all of them I have talked to, I would go to Joe Villalpando first. Many instructors know a lot, many want to be instructors, but Joe has the knowledge and seemingly a burning desire to pass it on. He has also worked very hard to be able to communicate clearly. Perhaps most importantly, Joe and I were on the same page ten minutes after I started talking to him. Someone can have all the other tools to be a great instructor but if the student isn't comfortable with the instructor they are not going to benefit nearly as much from instruction.
Hu
Students with big egos will only learn from someone who can kick their butts.:grin:
A trainer of elite cyclists (Tour de France riders) gave a presentation to my bike club. He said that you can't teach them anything if they don't respect you. Then he wheeled out his bike - a single 56 tooth chainwheel and a corncob that went down to 11 teeth. The thing had higher gearing than a tandem and required incredible leg strength in the highest gear.
He said: "I can turn it at high rpm. It gets their attention."
A trainer of elite cyclists (Tour de France riders) gave a presentation to my bike club. He said that you can't teach them anything if they don't respect you. Then he wheeled out his bike - a single 56 tooth chainwheel and a corncob that went down to 11 teeth. The thing had higher gearing than a tandem and required incredible leg strength in the highest gear.
He said: "I can turn it at high rpm. It gets their attention."
Scaramouche...That is some real truth there! :thumbup: That why pros who have taken lessons from me, have come with an open mind. I leave guys like APA7 ("If you can't beat me, you can't teach me") in the dust, and just walk the other way ("Let's not waste my time, and your money").
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scaramouche said:
