Pool is dead.

JAM said:
When will I see you again? Are you living in China now?

I have not been to many events in recent times, so that I can pay you. :frown:

I may go to SBE in 2009. It depends on work.

I would say double or nothing in 2012, but I would rather give you the 50 bucks, so that you can take your lovely lady out to dinner. :thumbup:

BTW, congrats on the new baby on the way. :smile:
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Don't worry about it! I'll see you down the road and we can still bet it in 2012.
 
Aaron_S said:
Not trying to take sides in this, as I feel that both sides have strong arguments. Are there fewer pool players as a result of video games? Absolutely. Should professional gamers be recognized for their skill and perseverance? Absolutely. That pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

I'm also not sure what the exact criteria are to be considered a "professional gamer", but there have been gaming organizations and competitions ever since the first arcade games (Asteroids, Defender, Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, etc.) became popular in the late 70's and early 80's. Anyone interested in seeing how professional gaming got its start, as well as learning a bit about some of the pioneers of competitive gaming, should watch a very good documentary called "The King of Kong - A Fistful of Quarters". A trailer for it can be found here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMJZ-_bJKdI

Good rolls,

Aaron
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Ha..funny thing is you did not need a fistfull of quarters....During my not so moral youth years my friends and I figured out how to get max credits on pretty much all of those games...For Donkey Kong all you needed was an investment into a straw at the pizza shop a few stores down from the mall arcade and with the straw you could get max credits...(99 because it would flip back to 0 if you went past)

Anyway....those games don't compare to todays games...All you needed back then was to manipulate a joystick and a fire button....Today you have to use all five fingers (and a toe for some moves)......All 5 of the above games were beatable through patterns....you can't really do that in todays games....Pac Man had set pattarns that if you followed you would never lose.....ever..

However....Defender is still the bomb!!!!

That all being said....I have a back room that has three things in it... a work out bench and weights....A 9' GCII with one specatator chair.... a TV in the upper corner of the room with a PS2 and stereo hooked up to it.

My son and his freinds never use one of the three things........er....well they do use the spectator chair...

One of these days I am going to find an Arcade Style Defender and put it in the back room.....I can still play that game all day.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TdQTbAOEos

Starcraft is south korea's national support. Players get 6 figure salaries and celebrity status to play a computer game. Starcraft 2 is about to come out and a whole generation of teens will never darken the door of a pool hall. I am a very good starcraft player, better than my pool game.

If the industry cares about the survival of the sport a serious effort needs to be made to organize school associations, but I have been beating that dead horse for years.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
Nice video :)

But I prefer this one:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=EM2LjQrwO6g

Imagine if Bart Simpson and some of the other cartoons did something similar today. Think it would help kids to get some more interest in pool
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The shooter is Ramon Yanez finished last - USA Nationals 1964. Unfortunately 3-c is kind of dead compared to what it used to be in th USA.
 
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If we talk about skill in video games you have to see these Tetris video it is amazing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwC544Z37qo
I hope you know Tetris.

I have played video games in a very high level of competition and they can be as fun as pool as skillfull as pool and as much frustrating as pool can be...

Video games are a big businees and I would tell about an experience I had.
I play in a touchsreen console which is very popular in Europe called Photoplay.
They also have online tournaments which are linked in their terminals and I play in a pool hall. I participated in an online competition and I managed to qualify to the Photoplay World Championship and be a member of our national team 9 players from Greece, the Championship took place in Majorka Spain. Every qualifier had all expences covered by Photoplay and I mean everything airplane tickets, Hotel and food. We were about 180 players from all around Europe, but they also had their personel, guests and dealers, total of people was about 500 and they all had expences paid by the company. They had booked one Hotel for all the people that was there for the Championship for 3 to 4 days depending on the Country because of their travelling plans.
I would really love to see a World Pool Championship that all the players would have their expences paid...
For what it's worth high lvl of competition is 1st places out of 5000-6000 players and a few world records in photoplay :) and it took years of practise.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
I do not think the billiards industry is as well orginized, as the game industry is.
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The video game industry nearly doubled the revenue of what movie studios did in 2007.........video games made twice as much gross income and had no expensive location shoots, or coked out actresses to insure, etc......not only is pool dead....but movies are dying also
 
The reason pool is dying

I had been playing pool since I was eight years old and by the age of 19 I would have to say I was one of the best pool players around.......and if pool had been set up differently I would by now be amongst the ranks of the professionals.........The thing I see is that all the other professional sports offer a lot more money to the winners than does pool which I think is very very sad..............If you guys out there want to see pool take off just make the top players earn in the millions like all the other major sports instead of a measly 100,000 or so and see how many people take interest..........Something needs to be done about this and it needs to be done now so pool can become the kind of sport it should be..........and also something needs to be done about the fact that noone should feel like he needs to live in a bar to become a professional ............Come on guys give me a break..............Let's get something going here and make the game of billiards what it should be....................
 
I thought the whole point of putting athletes on cereal boxes and soda cans was because we wanted our kids to emulate them. They were role models...

Sadly, it's all about money now. I'm a gamer, and I've had days disappear from life when addicted to a game, and I think it's a complete joke to elevate one to role model status.
 
freshstarts said:
I had been playing pool since I was eight years old and by the age of 19 I would have to say I was one of the best pool players around.......and if pool had been set up differently I would by now be amongst the ranks of the professionals.........The thing I see is that all the other professional sports offer a lot more money to the winners than does pool which I think is very very sad..............If you guys out there want to see pool take off just make the top players earn in the millions like all the other major sports instead of a measly 100,000 or so and see how many people take interest..........Something needs to be done about this and it needs to be done now so pool can become the kind of sport it should be..........and also something needs to be done about the fact that noone should feel like he needs to live in a bar to become a professional ............Come on guys give me a break..............Let's get something going here and make the game of billiards what it should be....................
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This is going to sound somewhat *****y, but I'm tired of hearing the same complaints over and over without any sort of suggestion as to how to fix it.

First off, the big money pool events have been tried and have failed.

Example #1 - Earl's $1,000,000 payday for breaking and running 10 (I think) racks in a tournament.

Example #2 - The IPT.

It should be noted that when Thorsten won $350,000 in that IPT event it did get picked up on Sportscenter as a play of the day, but other than that no one outside the industry cared.

Now what would be interesting is if you had some suggestions as to HOW these mythical paydays will ever come to pass. We all want pool to be recognized as a sport and we'd all like to see the pros making real money but before you start going on about how payouts need to improve I think the focus should first be on stabilizing the pro tours.

The reality is that there is not a men's pro tour in the United States. The UPA is a joke, plain and simple. This year, the UPA events were the SBE, the fiasco in Arizona where players got stiffed and the now defunct BCA event. Hell, all you really need to do is look at that monthly Billiards Digest ranking list. There are so few men's events that they're still counting 2006 events in the Power Index.

As for the WPBA, they are currently only listing 4 events locked for the 2009 season (2 are listed as tentative). You want to fix pool? Start with the pro tours before even thinking about prize money.
 
ApoDra said:
If we talk about skill in video games you have to see these Tetris video it is amazing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwC544Z37qo
I hope you know Tetris.
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That guy would be awesome in a warehouse. His girlfriend is gonna be sad when the aliens come get him to help kill the block-shaped monsters on the Planet Klergtofgh.

Thinking of all the time this man has spent staring at a sheet of glass pressing buttons, when he could have been playing World of Warcraft, makes me weep inside.

EDIT: spelling
 
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Surly said:
I thought the whole point of putting athletes on cereal boxes and soda cans was because we wanted our kids to emulate them. They were role models...

Sadly, it's all about money now. I'm a gamer, and I've had days disappear from life when addicted to a game, and I think it's a complete joke to elevate one to role model status.
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I have had days disappear from my life playing pool. I spent a week in Tulsa one night.

:-)
 
poolsnark said:
This is going to sound somewhat *****y, but I'm tired of hearing the same complaints over and over without any sort of suggestion as to how to fix it.

First off, the big money pool events have been tried and have failed.

Example #1 - Earl's $1,000,000 payday for breaking and running 10 (I think) racks in a tournament.

Example #2 - The IPT.

It should be noted that when Thorsten won $350,000 in that IPT event it did get picked up on Sportscenter as a play of the day, but other than that no one outside the industry cared.

Now what would be interesting is if you had some suggestions as to HOW these mythical paydays will ever come to pass. We all want pool to be recognized as a sport and we'd all like to see the pros making real money but before you start going on about how payouts need to improve I think the focus should first be on stabilizing the pro tours.

The reality is that there is not a men's pro tour in the United States. The UPA is a joke, plain and simple. This year, the UPA events were the SBE, the fiasco in Arizona where players got stiffed and the now defunct BCA event. Hell, all you really need to do is look at that monthly Billiards Digest ranking list. There are so few men's events that they're still counting 2006 events in the Power Index.

As for the WPBA, they are currently only listing 4 events locked for the 2009 season (2 are listed as tentative). You want to fix pool? Start with the pro tours before even thinking about prize money.
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There have been tons and tons of suggestions on how to "fix it". Some people are working on some of those suggestions as we speak.

Where are yours? You have outlined the situation that we are all familiar with. What do you suggest we do?

"Start with the pro tours"? What do you mean by that?

And actually Earl's 11 rack million dollar payday wasn't intended to happen in the very first event of a fledgling tour's circuit. The insurance company balked on the payout - that really wasn't the fault of the tour.

The IPT actually had several "big money" events and sadly ran out of money at the end. Who really knows where it could have gone if they had had a Travel Channel like deal? One thing we do know is that Mr. Big ideas Trudeau didn't count on the fact that the passionate pool players in the United States who are willing to spend money to attend IPT events, buy the feeds, and subscribe are numbered in the thousands not in the millions.

Much easier to sell a book full of promises rather than sell someone on a sport they don't really care about even if they play it twice a week in league.

The answer is to TAKE money from the league players .25cts at a time, use that fund viable pro tours that are consistent and then produce compelling programing that the public can get into. And that will in turn inspire more people to take up pool and join leagues thus completing the circle.

That's the ONLY way short of angel investors to come in and buy and control the sport by locking up all the players. Of course that's been tried once but the investor turned out to be about a billion short of his self-proclaimed billionaire status.
 
JB Cases said:
I have had days disappear from my life playing pool. I spent a week in Tulsa one night.

:-)
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I don't know if people relize it or not, but that is one of the best sayings anyone has ever said, I Love it,

This should be written on your tomb stone, well maybe not, but it's awsome, rep for you John
 
RFisher said:
I don't know if people relize it or not, but that is one of the best sayings anyone has ever said, I Love it,

This should be written on your tomb stone, well maybe not, but it's awsome, rep for you John
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Lol - and a week later my wife said it was too tough matching up with me and she was going to look for easier action somewhere else.

Later :-)
 
the real answer is that there is NO ANSWER!

The problem that is inherent in the game is that it simply is not that intriguing to the general public, and it probably will never be.

What makes a professional sport successful? Quite simply... PUBLIC INTEREST. There isn't much that pool can do to get the word out about the game. Everyone on the planet knows what pool is, virtually, and the public has spoken with their interest in the game in comparison to major pro sports.

People need to forget about professional pool players making a million a year based on their performance. That simply is never ever going to happen.

People need to start focusing on the little things to improve the game and cutting the fat in certain areas to help make the profession a bit more lucrative for those interested in pursuing it as a career.

I don't hold the answers and won't pretend that I do, but I can tell you with some certainty that some of these ideas of what pool should be are simply out of line with reality.

Sure, I LOVE this game and I can watch recordings from ESPN all day on my TV. I wish everyone felt like I do, but they do not and that is not going to change to any major degree. There are countless sports around the world which receive very little recognition and their professionals do not make any money from their profession... people need to accept that pool is in that group and it won't change.
 
Da Bank said:
the real answer is that there is NO ANSWER!

The problem that is inherent in the game is that it simply is not that intriguing to the general public, and it probably will never be.

What makes a professional sport successful? Quite simply... PUBLIC INTEREST. There isn't much that pool can do to get the word out about the game. Everyone on the planet knows what pool is, virtually, and the public has spoken with their interest in the game in comparison to major pro sports.

People need to forget about professional pool players making a million a year based on their performance. That simply is never ever going to happen.

People need to start focusing on the little things to improve the game and cutting the fat in certain areas to help make the profession a bit more lucrative for those interested in pursuing it as a career.

I don't hold the answers and won't pretend that I do, but I can tell you with some certainty that some of these ideas of what pool should be are simply out of line with reality.

Sure, I LOVE this game and I can watch recordings from ESPN all day on my TV. I wish everyone felt like I do, but they do not and that is not going to change to any major degree. There are countless sports around the world which receive very little recognition and their professionals do not make any money from their profession... people need to accept that pool is in that group and it won't change.
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I don't know that I agree with that. I don't think the public has spoken on this. Pool is very fragmented in the USA and it's presentation is lackluster at best. However the ABC Wide World Of Sports matchups between Fats and Mosconi were some of the highest rated programs in that popular show's history.

The one thing that all popular spectator sports share is consistency. The fans know the rules, they know the game, they know the players, and they know what's at stake.

Not so in pool. You might be watching 7 ball one night and trick shots the next, or some funky version of nine ball the next, or wacky celebrity billiards with far out rules the next night - there is no possible way for the average person to get "into" pool as a spectator because half of every show is spent telling them the rules. Then they might get introduced to a player but god forbid that they should ever see that player again.

The shining example though of pool consistently being shown and having a decent draw is the WPBA Classic Tour. The players who are always on TV are recognized outside the pool room by normal people. That hasn't translated into a larger pie for them to share in I will grant you that but I think it's because although it's consistent it's also somewhat boring the way the WPBA is presented.

So with some better production, more behind the scenes stuff and things to be more engaging I predict that the USA could have a pro tour that a good portion of America would look forward to watching.
 
JB Cases said:
I don't know that I agree with that. I don't think the public has spoken on this. Pool is very fragmented in the USA and it's presentation is lackluster at best. However the ABC Wide World Of Sports matchups between Fats and Mosconi were some of the highest rated programs in that popular show's history.

The one thing that all popular spectator sports share is consistency. The fans know the rules, they know the game, they know the players, and they know what's at stake.

Not so in pool. You might be watching 7 ball one night and trick shots the next, or some funky version of nine ball the next, or wacky celebrity billiards with far out rules the next night - there is no possible way for the average person to get "into" pool as a spectator because half of every show is spent telling them the rules. Then they might get introduced to a player but god forbid that they should ever see that player again.

The shining example though of pool consistently being shown and having a decent draw is the WPBA Classic Tour. The players who are always on TV are recognized outside the pool room by normal people. That hasn't translated into a larger pie for them to share in I will grant you that but I think it's because although it's consistent it's also somewhat boring the way the WPBA is presented.

So with some better production, more behind the scenes stuff and things to be more engaging I predict that the USA could have a pro tour that a good portion of America would look forward to watching.
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perhaps it is possible that this could happen, but the likelihood is very small. The major problem is that no major networks are going to risk investing the dollars it takes to produce and present the sport to the public that would be necessary to achieve the results you speak of. These types of productions that would be needed to make pool interesting on a wider scope would be extremely costly and would take better airtime away from other more historically successful sports. This is a gamble that promoters of pool would have a real hard time getting the big powers to take. Perhaps we could get some of our professional hustlers to pull it off :thumbup:

Given some creativity and a boatload of cash, TV producers can make ANYTHING popular and interesting... look at mainstream reality TV! For pool to ever really take off like you describe it will absolutely need a non-traditional boost like another popular movie, a reality show, or something we couldn't foresee.
 
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