Pool is like golf...It's a

[John Brumback]

guessing game. To play good or great pool,you need to be able to guess. There is no exact science that is going to help you play good or great pool.

The (cue ball and the object ball at times) swerves and curves and skids and hops and rolls off and comes up short down south and does all of that long up north:wink:

If ya want to win,ya better be able to guess.

One more thing. Golf is harder because you have to stand beside the ball and not behind It. That makes lining up in pool far more easy.

Sorry to be so blunt,that's just the only way I know how to help people. John B.

 

[pt109]

guessing game. To play good or great pool,you need to be able to guess. There is no exact science that is going to help you play good or great pool.

The (cue ball and the object ball at times) swerves and curves and skids and hops and rolls off and comes up short down south and does all of that long up north:wink:

If ya want to win,ya better be able to guess.

One more thing. Golf is harder because you have to stand beside the ball and not behind It. That makes lining up in pool far more easy.

Sorry to be so blunt,that's just the only way I know how to help people. John B.

I think pool is harder than golf, John....you can shoot par without hitting a fairway
off the tee.
Pool, like chess and boxing, is a war game....you can shoot perfect and lose your watch...
...'cause your opponent beat you to the balls...or put you in jail.

 

[DavidMNienow]

I agree that you need to guess somewhat during your shotmaking...but I feel its like an intelligent form of guessing based on experience and understanding of the fundamentals of the game.

At my highest levels of playing performance I guess as intelligently as I can by calming my mind and letting the Midichlorean's speak to me to let the force flow through me and my cue.

 

[skip100]

Pool is a lot like putting and chipping. Much less so like full shots though.

I like your overall point, but there is clearly more in the player's control in pool than in golf - with the exception of when you're not at the table and playing someone who can run multiple racks (not a worry for most people). Bad breaks are actually written into the official Rules of Golf, defining the term "rub of the green" to differentiate them from situations when players get relief. Teacher Dave Pelz made a putting robot with a perfectly repeatable stroke that still missed the occasional 3-footer.

 

[Mikey Town]

I think pool is harder than golf, John....you can shoot par without hitting a fairway
off the tee.
Pool, like chess and boxing, is a war game....you can shoot perfect and lose your watch...
...'cause your opponent beat you to the balls...or put you in jail.

There is no saying that shooting par in golf will earn you a win.

I think the fact that "perfect pool" is possible (depending on the game) makes it easier than golf. There is no such thing as perfect golf. No matter how good someone scores, it could've always been better, in some way. Also, in golf, the playing field differs in more ways, depending on the venue... and the weather.

As it pertains to apples-to-apples comparisons, I think tennis and bowling are much closer to pool than golf is.

 

[M.G.]

The (cue ball and the object ball at times) swerves and curves and skids and hops and rolls off and comes up short down south and does all of that long up north:wink:

You should try a LD shaft ASAP, you seem to have broken your shaft

 

[RMS]

As it pertains to apples-to-apples comparisons, I think tennis and bowling are much closer to pool than golf is.

Well,......

Ok, these games are similar.
Tennis, Badminton, Ping Pong, and Volleyball.

Bowling and Pool have some common ground. As does Pool and Golf.

I should have asked Jackie Gleason what he thought about pool being similar to Golf. He was a good Golfer, and a good Pool player.
He was also a good Bowler. Should have asked him about that too.

 

[SilverCue]

Welcome to the big sand box.
But here people throw sand, gravel and sometimes rocks

 

[RMS]

Welcome to the big sand box.

Thanks for the welcome.

I have a thick skin. I didn't at age 19, but at age 59..........
Funny how some things change.

 

[trob]

I don't agree with the guessing at all ... But yea I always felt golf and pool were similar. Fundamentally and mentally based games. You don't have to hit the ball until your ready which means you have a lot of room to be in a battle with your mind. I heard say once every shot in pool is like a 5 foot putt.

 

[(((Satori)))]

guessing game. To play good or great pool,you need to be able to guess. There is no exact science that is going to help you play good or great pool.

The (cue ball and the object ball at times) swerves and curves and skids and hops and rolls off and comes up short down south and does all of that long up north:wink:

If ya want to win,ya better be able to guess.

One more thing. Golf is harder because you have to stand beside the ball and not behind It. That makes lining up in pool far more easy.

Sorry to be so blunt,that's just the only way I know how to help people. John B.

I think I hear what you are saying. No system is going to take you to THE shot line is one conclusion am I right? Thanks for the input.

 

[(((Satori)))]

guessing game. To play good or great pool,you need to be able to guess. There is no exact science that is going to help you play good or great pool.

The (cue ball and the object ball at times) swerves and curves and skids and hops and rolls off and comes up short down south and does all of that long up north:wink:

If ya want to win,ya better be able to guess.

One more thing. Golf is harder because you have to stand beside the ball and not behind It. That makes lining up in pool far more easy.

Sorry to be so blunt,that's just the only way I know how to help people. John B.

Can I ask you a question? Do you do any fine tuning of your aim once you are down on the ball or if it doesnt feel right to you do you stand back up and align then drop in again? Or do you do a mixture of both... make some minor adjustments and if that doesnt feel right then you get back up?

Thanks again sir.

 

[sjm]

guessing game. To play good or great pool,you need to be able to guess. There is no exact science that is going to help you play good or great pool.

The (cue ball and the object ball at times) swerves and curves and skids and hops and rolls off and comes up short down south and does all of that long up north:wink:

If ya want to win,ya better be able to guess.

One more thing. Golf is harder because you have to stand beside the ball and not behind It. That makes lining up in pool far more easy.

Sorry to be so blunt,that's just the only way I know how to help people. John B.

Very well said. What can be learned, however, are the processes by which the best possible guesses can be made over the long haul.

The variables in shot conceptualization, shot execution, and shot result are numerous enough to be downright intimidating at times, but the most composed players are at peace with the fact that outcomes are not as predictable as they'd like.

Take your best guess, commit to it, and then run with it. That's pool.

 

[Donny Lutz]

other differences

Well,......

Ok, these games are similar.
Tennis, Badminton, Ping Pong, and Volleyball.

Bowling and Pool have some common ground. As does Pool and Golf.

I should have asked Jackie Gleason what he thought about pool being similar to Golf. He was a good Golfer, and a good Pool player.
He was also a good Bowler. Should have asked him about that too.

Some more thoughts...

Bowling and pool are generally played indoors, the others indoors or outdoors.

There's no defense in bowling or golf as there is in the others.

Conditions on bowling lanes change more rapidly than those of a pool table.

When conditions are tough in the outdoor sports play is suspended.

In tennis, ping pong and volleyball only one ball is in play at a time (same ball for both players). In bowling, each player has their own ball (or balls) that is not standard (weight, balance, finish are adjusted for conditions). In pool you can be dealing with up to fifteen balls that are all in play.

You're striking a moving target in the net sports, while your targets in pool and bowling are stationary.

There's more luck in bowling than in the others, because of all the possible interactions of the pins, - that stand separate and are driven against each other with a ten to sixteen pound ball. In pool, the only time all fifteen balls are moved at the same time is the break shot.

When it's a bowler's turn, they throw one or two shots (or possibly three in the tenth) in every frame (inning). In pool, an inning may involve up to hundreds of shots (14-1).

You can employ referees in all the sports mentioned, but pool is the only doesn't ever employ electronics to enforce rules (with the exception of a shot clock).

Footwork is a huge part of the net sports and bowling. Golf not so much, and pool hardly at all.

One of the few things that all of the sports mentioned (except badminton) have in common is that spin or lack of spin on the ball is an important part of every shot.

 

[lfigueroa]

guessing game. To play good or great pool,you need to be able to guess. There is no exact science that is going to help you play good or great pool.

The (cue ball and the object ball at times) swerves and curves and skids and hops and rolls off and comes up short down south and does all of that long up north:wink:

If ya want to win,ya better be able to guess.

One more thing. Golf is harder because you have to stand beside the ball and not behind It. That makes lining up in pool far more easy.

Sorry to be so blunt,that's just the only way I know how to help people. John B.

John's post reminded me of something I wrote a long time ago:

I think when it comes to shot conceptualization many players think they know what's going to happen on a given shot when they really don't. After all, this is a game of hypothesis. You look at the shot and hypothesize that if you hit the ball at a certain point, with a certain spin, with a certain speed, one ball will go in the pocket and the other will land on a given spot on the table for another shot. You get down and shoot and test your hypothesis. If a player thinks they do know exactly what's going to happen on any given shot, they should immediately waltz over to the billiard table, or just throw a couple of balls on a pool table, and try a little straight rail. Many players may be shocked to discover what they don't know.

I think any player can make the cue travel on a perfectly straight track several different ways. Put another way, you can produce a perfectly straight stroke using a wide variety of stroke mechanics -- different stances, bridges, grips, head heights, crooked or bent bridge arms, grip arm alignments, etc. But it has to be a straight (or even crooked stroke for that matter) that produces the desired/expected results for your hypothesis. I think that's part of the secret.

Sooo, I guess you have to find the setup that makes the balls do what you expect them to do and then be able to reliably reproduce that setup on every shot. If you expect the ball to come straight backwards on a draw shot, and it goes sideways, you have no basis upon which to learn. If you want and expect the cue ball to track perfectly straight on a follow shot and it goes sideways on you, the same problem exists. So your starting point has to be here.

Once you've got that, I think you eventually get to the point of "feeling" the shots by paying attention, using each shot to learn. IOW, using each shot as an experiment for which you first hypothesize about the expected results. You shoot the shot and then compare your results to your hypothesis. Then, the next time the same shot comes up, you develop a new hypothesis based upon your previous experiment. Something like: the last time I shot this shot the cue ball didn't take as wide an angle off the rail as I anticipated. So I'll cheat the pocket; use more english: use more speed; hit lower on the cue ball; whatever, and try and get that wider angle.

Then, several thousands and thousands of shots later, viola! You don't even have to think about making the ball

Lou Figueroa

 

[Island Drive]

guessing game. To play good or great pool,you need to be able to guess. There is no exact science that is going to help you play good or great pool....

And from that guess one adjusts their approach to fit the shot. That's how simple I keep it.

 

[John Brumback]

Can I ask you a question? Do you do any fine tuning of your aim once you are down on the ball or if it doesnt feel right to you do you stand back up and align then drop in again? Or do you do a mixture of both... make some minor adjustments and if that doesnt feel right then you get back up?

Thanks again sir.

Yes,yes,yes,yes and yes:wink: You are welcome. John B.

 

[JB Cases]

I think I hear what you are saying. No system is going to take you to THE shot line is one conclusion am I right? Thanks for the input.

I think that's what John is saying. But he made a video teaching people how to figure out banks which reduces the guessing tremendously if his instructions are followed.

Of course one always has to contend with variables. I can put a laser line on the table and put two balls on it and shoot it with a perfect stroke and the ball could still roll off and miss. There could be piece of chalk in the way, the cloth could have a snag, a fly could lose a wing.....unless I shoot hard enough to negate all that....

For kicking and banking though there are systems that are INCREDIBLY accurate, but even using them you still have to know the conditions and be able to adjust (guess properly) when needed.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Yes,yes,yes,yes and yes:wink: You are welcome. John B.

Thanks again John. Short and sweet. Keep it simple. I like that.

 

[John Brumback]

John's post reminded me of something I wrote a long time ago:

I think when it comes to shot conceptualization many players think they know what's going to happen on a given shot when they really don't. After all, this is a game of hypothesis. You look at the shot and hypothesize that if you hit the ball at a certain point, with a certain spin, with a certain speed, one ball will go in the pocket and the other will land on a given spot on the table for another shot. You get down and shoot and test your hypothesis. If a player thinks they do know exactly what's going to happen on any given shot, they should immediately waltz over to the billiard table, or just throw a couple of balls on a pool table, and try a little straight rail. Many players may be shocked to discover what they don't know.

I think any player can make the cue travel on a perfectly straight track several different ways. Put another way, you can produce a perfectly straight stroke using a wide variety of stroke mechanics -- different stances, bridges, grips, head heights, crooked or bent bridge arms, grip arm alignments, etc. But it has to be a straight (or even crooked stroke for that matter) that produces the desired/expected results for your hypothesis. I think that's part of the secret.

Sooo, I guess you have to find the setup that makes the balls do what you expect them to do and then be able to reliably reproduce that setup on every shot. If you expect the ball to come straight backwards on a draw shot, and it goes sideways, you have no basis upon which to learn. If you want and expect the cue ball to track perfectly straight on a follow shot and it goes sideways on you, the same problem exists. So your starting point has to be here.

Once you've got that, I think you eventually get to the point of "feeling" the shots by paying attention, using each shot to learn. IOW, using each shot as an experiment for which you first hypothesize about the expected results. You shoot the shot and then compare your results to your hypothesis. Then, the next time the same shot comes up, you develop a new hypothesis based upon your previous experiment. Something like: the last time I shot this shot the cue ball didn't take as wide an angle off the rail as I anticipated. So I'll cheat the pocket; use more english: use more speed; hit lower on the cue ball; whatever, and try and get that wider angle.

Then, several thousands and thousands of shots later, viola! You don't even have to think about making the ball

Lou Figueroa

Lou, I think that's what I meant.Does Hypothesize and guessing mean pretty much the same?:embarrassed2: John B.