Pool Is One Of The Hardest Games

[CJ Wiley]

learn to play at the advanced level and develop your own personal systems and style

If you don't want to research my history, that's fine..But I am not about to furnish a resume, or a beat list for you !..If it bothers you so much, there is plenty of info in these archives, you wouldn't have to go to 1P.org

Actually, I only have a problem with people who think learning to play top level pool, (specifically one pocket) is a piece of cake... I have a little thing going, with John Barton, in that regard, and also CJ, with his insisting how EASY a game one pocket is to play. (I guess that's why he never bothered to learn it)

There are plenty of guys here on AZB, that know how difficult a game pool is to learn.. I just can't understand why there are so many who compare it with hitting a curve ball, or playing horseshoes !...Why are they on a pool forum ?
Could it be because they are trying to learn why pool didn't come easy to them ? If you don't want me defending that position, just ask Jay Helfert, or Buddy Hall, or John Schmidt, or anyone who really knows pool !

PS..I have to believe the dissenters on this thread, just don't know what they are talking about...John B. should know better, and CJ damn sure does !...They both just love to argue with me !

Pool is an easy game to learn from someone that understands the deep level of improvement....however, it's like learning to play the piano, if you just hit the keys (pool balls) all day every day you'll never learn to play exceptionally well.

We have to learn the technical aspect first (hand and body positions), then learn to "read the music," then play scales to develop the dexterity and pattern skills.....then, and only then can we learn to play at the advanced level and develop your own personal systems and style.....the better the mentor the quicker this process can transpire.

'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[KRJ]

HOWEVER certain games take specific physical attributes to play well. For instance snooker takes perfect eyesight, while you can get away with somewhat diminished eyesight in pool and still be competitive. It is rare to see a 40+ snooker player still compete, although Davis and White can occationally win the odd tournament.

.

That's exactly right... besides playing a sport like baseball, football, or hockey, you still have to add the same amount of time to include physical conditioning.... And you have to be born with the right "fast or slow twitch muscles" as well.

There are FOLKS that from the minute they were born, would never be competitive sports person, by pure luck of the draw of the family gene pool.

Does anyone truly believe that if Johnny Galecki (Big Bang Theory) practiced football for 1 million hours, he was gonna be an NFL QB, a college QB or a even a HS QB in a very small town

 

[CJ Wiley]

Derby City Classic a Pro Event?

I'd say winning an event at Derby would classify someone as world class.

Greg Sullivan (the promoter of DCC) has never even considered the Derby City Classic a Pro Event........fyi

I would think the 10' division is the closest event at DCC to be considered "Pro".

 

[one stroke]

That's exactly right... besides playing a sport like baseball, football, or hockey, you still have to add the same amount of time to include physical conditioning.... And you have to be born with the right "fast or slow twitch muscles" as well.

There are FOLKS that from the minute they were born, would never be competitive sports person, by pure luck of the draw of the family gene pool.

Does anyone truly believe that if Johnny Galecki (Big Bang Theory) practiced football for 1 million hours, he was gonna be an NFL QB, a college QB or a even a HS QB in a very small town

Your exactly right ,, the only place god created equal is in the bible ,, here on earth we are not all the same and we can not be the best ,,
Unless you live in a closet its no secret what it takes to be a great pool player its not a National secret some are just going to be better at it for what ever reason other than instruction practice and playing


1

 

[JB Cases]

Your exactly right ,, the only place god created equal is in the bible ,, here on earth we are not all the same and we can not be the best ,,
Unless you live in a closet its no secret what it takes to be a great pool player its not a National secret some are just going to be better at it for what ever reason other than instruction practice and playing


1

As I said many times unless these is some physical reason - i.e. 80lb weakling vs. 180lb jock - anyone can be anything they work at. Neurologically we are all not the same, that's clear. Biologically we are all not the same, that's clear. Psychologically we are not the same.

BUT

The limitations we have because of those factors is a lot less than we think. THAT is the lesson that science teaches us through the studies that have been done. There will come a day when our genes will be mapped from birth, our neurological capacity mapped, our biological and physiological makeup exactly determined - when that day comes then there will most certainly be a list of things we likely will be told that we will not be able to do at the highest level - and people will prove those assessments wrong when they try despite the odds against it.

Remember the adage that we only use 10% of our brain? Well if it's true then that's a LOT of room for improvement for EVERYONE. Is there any player on Earth who is a master of all games? No, not even Efren is. No snooker player is, no carom player is. Why not? Motivation or because the separate disciplines are each difficult to master on their own? I say it's both.

If there were say a $5 million dollar grand prize for any person who could win the world's snooker, pool and carom championships in one year then I predict that there would be a ton of cross-training happening with the result that all three disciplines would end up with much better players. Oh I see it now, it's impossible for carom players to be better, it's impossible for snooker players to be better, only pool players can improve...

But HOW DO YOU KNOW? If football was still the same pay scale as it was in the 40s then would the players be as evolved as they are now? Highly doubtful. Mass makes class and motivation makes mass. From mass comes those who have the most drive and determination who ALSO are able to satisfy the physical requirements.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Pool is an easy game to learn from someone that understands the deep level of improvement....however, it's like learning to play the piano, if you just hit the keys (pool balls) all day every day you'll never learn to play exceptionally well.

We have to learn the technical aspect first (hand and body positions), then learn to "read the music," then play scales to develop the dexterity and pattern skills.....then, and only then can we learn to play at the advanced level and develop your own personal systems and style.....the better the mentor the quicker this process can transpire.

'The Game is the Teacher'

True, except unlike pool, there are actually naturals in music. People that can take to an instrument, and play beautifully in a short time with no formal instruction.

Nobody just picks up a cue and starts running out.

 

[SJDinPHX]

There are FOLKS that from the minute they were born, would never be a competitive sports person, by pure luck of the draw of the family gene pool.

Does anyone truly believe that if Johnny Galecki (Big Bang Theory) practiced football for 1 million hours, he was gonna be an NFL QB ?...

Exactly right on RJ !..That is exactly the point I have been trying to make with John B, and to a certain extent, CJ !.. John is convinced that ANYONE who puts in the time, and dedication, can excel at ANY endeavor requiring skill or athleticism !..
CJ seems to think, "lessons, and a good instructor" (and maybe a lil' TOI )will make you a champion !

This is simply NOT true, for 98% of the worlds population, human or animal !..If it were, horse breeders, (for instance) would cease to exist..They would have a hard time charging a 100K stud fee, if the offspring of Man-O-War, and Secretariat's breeding, would produce the same kind of broken down "@#%^$&^ing" nag's I always bet on at the track !

The same situation exists in the human gene pool..You simply CANNOT take a John Barton, and breed him with a Rosie O'Donell, and expect to produce a Joe Montana, or an Efren Reyes !..(tho, you might get lucky and get an Earl Strickland )

PS..I'm telling you guy's, John Barton is losing his f-ing mind ! (doesn't he know its NOT the year 4014 yet ?)

 

[one stroke]

As I said many times unless these is some physical reason - i.e. 80lb weakling vs. 180lb jock - anyone can be anything they work at. Neurologically we are all not the same, that's clear. Biologically we are all not the same, that's clear. Psychologically we are not the same.

BUT

The limitations we have because of those factors is a lot less than we think. THAT is the lesson that science teaches us through the studies that have been done. There will come a day when our genes will be mapped from birth, our neurological capacity mapped, our biological and physiological makeup exactly determined - when that day comes then there will most certainly be a list of things we likely will be told that we will not be able to do at the highest level - and people will prove those assessments wrong when they try despite the odds against it.

Remember the adage that we only use 10% of our brain? Well if it's true then that's a LOT of room for improvement for EVERYONE. Is there any player on Earth who is a master of all games? No, not even Efren is. No snooker player is, no carom player is. Why not? Motivation or because the separate disciplines are each difficult to master on their own? I say it's both.

If there were say a $5 million dollar grand prize for any person who could win the world's snooker, pool and carom championships in one year then I predict that there would be a ton of cross-training happening with the result that all three disciplines would end up with much better players. Oh I see it now, it's impossible for carom players to be better, it's impossible for snooker players to be better, only pool players can improve...

But HOW DO YOU KNOW? If football was still the same pay scale as it was in the 40s then would the players be as evolved as they are now? Highly doubtful. Mass makes class and motivation makes mass. From mass comes those who have the most drive and determination who ALSO are able to satisfy the physical requirements.

There are exceptions to every rule the exceptions usually occur because some who is lacking in one area is exceptional in another
These people if they have the desire the work ethic and training can overcome thier deficiencies but they are the exception not the rule and seldom the best at thier craft
The streets are paved with plenty of gifted people who never gave it there all
and there are many who succeeded who did not have all the tools
But at the end of the day that does not beat the one who has all the tools the desire and put in the time ,, that's where the elite like Shane are

1

 

[The Renfro]

Your exactly right ,, the only place god created equal is in the bible ,, here on earth we are not all the same and we can not be the best ,,
Unless you live in a closet its no secret what it takes to be a great pool player its not a National secret some are just going to be better at it for what ever reason other than instruction practice and playing


1

OK I highlighted the part I am interested in... Let me guess.. Practice???

I would love to know what it takes to be a great pool player... Not a good one... Great as in world class... Something tells me you have zero clue same as 99.99999% of the pool players on here RJ especially... strike that... exponentially included... I'd say every good player is waiting with bait on their breath for the messiah... Pretty sure we are all gonna still be waiting....

If you have an answer that would rock but I don't think anyone who has not been there could even start to quantify the skill set...

You want a rude awakening? try this... http://psych.io/spatial/

I know most of you that don't get it will lie about your score or you will cheat and use more than your mind... but you will always know what it really was....

Chris

 

[JB Cases]

Exactly right on RJ !..That is exactly the point I have been trying to make with John B, and to a certain extent, CJ !.. John is convinced that ANYONE who puts in the time, and dedication, can excel at ANY endeavor requiring skill or athleticism !..
CJ seems to think, "lessons, and a good instructor" (and maybe a lil' TOI )will make you a champion !

This is simply NOT true, for 98% of the worlds population, human or animal !..If it were, horse breeders, (for instance) would cease to exist..They would have a hard time charging a 100K stud fee, if the offspring of Man-O-War, and Secretariat's breeding, would produce the same kind of broken down "@#%^$&^ing" nag's I always bet on at the track !

The same situation exists in the human gene pool..You simply CANNOT take a John Barton, and breed him with a Rosie O'Donell, and expect to produce a Joe Montana, or an Efren Reyes !..(tho, you might get lucky and get an Earl Strickland )

PS..I'm telling you guy's, John Barton is losing his f-ing mind ! (doesn't he know its NOT the year 4014 yet ?)

And the fact is that MOST of the offspring of champion horses DON'T become champions. Why not? Because you can't breed DESIRE. If a horse doesn't want to run then no amount of prodding is going to make him run. On the other hand IF a horse wants to run then very often he will push himself beyond the limits of what his trainers think is possible.

People BREED horses with the HOPE that they will get a horse that is PHYSICALLY fit to run and has the DESIRE to run. Obviously choosing horse stock that has the PHYSICAL traits needed to endure long races is a prerequisite and goes along with what I said. But no amount of breeding guarantees a horse with the proper amount of desire.

 

[BeiberLvr]

OK I highlighted the part I am interested in... Let me guess.. Practice???

I would love to know what it takes to be a great pool player... Not a good one... Great as in world class... Something tells me you have zero clue same as 99.99999% of the pool players on here RJ especially... strike that... exponentially included... I'd say every good player is waiting with bait on their breath for the messiah... Pretty sure we are all gonna still be waiting....

If you have an answer that would rock but I don't think anyone who has not been there could even start to quantify the skill set...

You want a rude awakening? try this... http://psych.io/spatial/

I know most of you that don't get it will lie about your score or you will cheat and use more than your mind... but you will always know what it really was....

Chris

4 out of 9

 

[Rackemep]

4 out of 9

same here...thats a tough little test...

 

[8pack]

Im special...:wink:

 

[BeiberLvr]

Im special...:wink:

Where does that link take you?

 

[nobcitypool]

And the fact is that MOST of the offspring of champion horses DON'T become champions. Why not? Because you can't breed DESIRE. If a horse doesn't want to run then no amount of prodding is going to make him run. On the other hand IF a horse wants to run then very often he will push himself beyond the limits of what his trainers think is possible.

People BREED horses with the HOPE that they will get a horse that is PHYSICALLY fit to run and has the DESIRE to run. Obviously choosing horse stock that has the PHYSICAL traits needed to endure long races is a prerequisite and goes along with what I said. But no amount of breeding guarantees a horse with the proper amount of desire.

I guess that's why the experts keep paying huge dollars in stud fees for the right to a vial of jism from the top champions huh? You conveniently forgot the other part of that equation. While most of the offspring of champions don't become champions, most of the champions are the offspring of champions.

Desire is great but it simply can't overcome LOFT (lack of f'ing talent). You can go out every day from the time you walk and run sprints but if you weren't genetically blessed with enough fast twitch muscles, you'll never compete in the Olympics in the 100M dash. You can shoot hoops, dribble, run sprints, etc. all day long for your entire life but if your 5'5" Parents provide you with a 5'5" body, you're not playing in the NBA.

You talk about this desire thing all the time, so what is it you desire so much John? What are you world class at? Seems like, since you're convinced that desire is pretty much all it takes, either you're world class at something or you're cursed with apathy. So which is it?

 

[BeiberLvr]

I guess that's why the experts keep paying huge dollars in stud fees for the right to a vial of jism from the top champions huh? You conveniently forgot the other part of that equation. While most of the offspring of champions don't become champions, most of the champions are the offspring of champions.

Desire is great but it simply can't overcome LOFT (lack of f'ing talent). You can go out every day from the time you walk and run sprints but if you weren't genetically blessed with enough fast twitch muscles, you'll never compete in the Olympics in the 100M dash. You can shoot hoops, dribble, run sprints, etc. all day long for your entire life but if your 5'5" Parents provide you with a 5'5" body, you're not playing in the NBA.

You talk about this desire thing all the time, so what is it you desire so much John? What are you world class at? Seems like, since you're convinced that desire is pretty much all it takes, either you're world class at something or you're cursed with apathy. So which is it?

I'm totally with you on actual athletic sports. It has more to do with genetics though. Look at Lebron James. Genetically he's built to be an athlete. He works extremely hard on his game, but he'd still be a top 10 player if he didn't.

All that aside, the argument is about pool players. I would just like to know exactly what a "natural" pool player has that can't be learned with dedicated practice.

 

[Jaden]

tell that to Spud Webb...

I guess that's why the experts keep paying huge dollars in stud fees for the right to a vial of jism from the top champions huh? You conveniently forgot the other part of that equation. While most of the offspring of champions don't become champions, most of the champions are the offspring of champions.

Desire is great but it simply can't overcome LOFT (lack of f'ing talent). You can go out every day from the time you walk and run sprints but if you weren't genetically blessed with enough fast twitch muscles, you'll never compete in the Olympics in the 100M dash. You can shoot hoops, dribble, run sprints, etc. all day long for your entire life but if your 5'5" Parents provide you with a 5'5" body, you're not playing in the NBA.

You talk about this desire thing all the time, so what is it you desire so much John? What are you world class at? Seems like, since you're convinced that desire is pretty much all it takes, either you're world class at something or you're cursed with apathy. So which is it?

Tell that to Spud Webb....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4zWLagc-14

Jaden

 

[nobcitypool]

OK I highlighted the part I am interested in... Let me guess.. Practice???

I would love to know what it takes to be a great pool player... Not a good one... Great as in world class... Something tells me you have zero clue same as 99.99999% of the pool players on here RJ especially... strike that... exponentially included... I'd say every good player is waiting with bait on their breath for the messiah... Pretty sure we are all gonna still be waiting....

If you have an answer that would rock but I don't think anyone who has not been there could even start to quantify the skill set...

You want a rude awakening? try this... http://psych.io/spatial/

I know most of you that don't get it will lie about your score or you will cheat and use more than your mind... but you will always know what it really was....

Chris

5 out of 9 and I took less than 5 minutes. I'd bet money if I took 1/2 hour I could get at least 8 out of 9. 2 or 3 were fairly obvious, 3 or 4 took a little thinking and 3 weren't obvious at all as I was looking at them. I'd have to take a fair amount of time to assemble them all in my mind to figure out which one. Tough test. I believe a lot of people couldn't get 1 out of 9 if you took guesswork out of the equation (they'd have to explain how they arrived at their answer instead of just picking multiple choice). With 4 choices on each question, simple statistics tell you pure guesswork should average 2 to 3 correct answers.

 

[nobcitypool]

Tell that to Spud Webb....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4zWLagc-14

Jaden

And I thought of Spud Webb. He also had a 40" plus vertical leap. Do you think he inherited that or developed it? But how many Spud Webbs are there in the NBA today? BTW, one or two aberrations out of thousands hardly is statistically significant nor does it prove the point John is trying to make. How many 180 pound defensive linemen are there in the NFL? Or even better, when was the last time there was a DL in the NFL under 200 pounds?

 

[Jaden]

visual spatial acuity is the main thing...

I'm totally with you on actual athletic sports. It has more to do with genetics though. Look at Lebron James. Genetically he's built to be an athlete. He works extremely hard on his game, but he'd still be a top 10 player if he didn't.

All that aside, the argument is about pool players. I would just like to know exactly what a "natural" pool player has that can't be learned with dedicated practice.

Visual spatial acuity is going to be highest in top pool players. The disparity between men and women at the top levels can also probably be explained by this.

Everyone has an individual limit to the top level that they can achieve in ALL things.

However, some people piss away their talent and some go far beyond what they would be expected to with dedication and heart.

Jaden