I think you're wrong about that. As far as I can tell, the WPA will continue on with whatever players they have and will continue to sanction events. The sanctioning process isn't just about getting a sanction fee. It's also about assuring that the player selection process is fair to all continents, as well as fairness in the way the events are run. They gave Matchroom a very wide berth on this in the past, but they probably won't from here-on.
Pool Player Podcast............... WPA
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
Matchroom started as basically Barry Hearn managing Steve Davis, and I think the name was from Barry’s snooker club in 70s. The matchroom stable expanded in the 80s to include Davis, Thorburn, Taylor, Tony Meo and I think Jimmy White. There might have been a few others that I’m missing. In the mid 80s I believe Hearn did begin putting on non-ranking snooker events. But he was largely focused on promoting his players and getting them sponsorships.
Shortly after he started expanding into other sports and was largely absent from snooker for a long time. But I don’t know that matchroom has managed individual players for a while beyond the ongoing relationship Barry had with Steve Davis.
Are you serious??? Look at what the vaunted WPA did to the world 9ball. They ran it into the ground and ended up selling it to Hearn/Matchroom. The point i was trying to make is that no one would miss the WPA if they were gone. Players don't show up at the WC events because of the WPA. They want the title/cash. They couldn't care less who was behind the wizard's curtain.
that's right. there's even a movie about the steve davis era called the rack pack. steve was at one point the highest earning sportsperson in the UK. either way, when matchroom did return to snooker and sorted out the tour, the total price fund increased from 3 million to 16 million within ten years.
MR has done more for pro pool in 10yrs than the WPA has done ever. 'Rack PacK' is a great flic btw. Very well done.
I am serious. Without the WPA and its member federations, it would just be the wild west of pool. There would be events all over. But there would be zero unity. If someone wanted to find out who the best of the best was, it would never happen. When there is a WC today, there are many players that we Americans have never heard of. But they end up being killers and beating some of the favorites. That's because they were selected to represent their region by their country/federations.
The World Championships are the culmination of this effort. Without all the organization at the country/federation levels, there could be no world championships.
As far as WPA running 9 ball WC into the ground, unless I'm mistaken, they never ran an event. They seek out independent promoters to do it, and sanction with them. If you are referring to Doha, I agree, it stunk. But that's because the Doha promoters stunk. If MR were all of a sudden to do a crappy job, it would be the same situation. Maybe WPA should have pulled the plug on Doha after 3 years instead of 10, but the contract was for 10. Maybe they learned from that and wrote in future contracts something like "promoters must do a good job or contract will be voided".
Players DO go where the WPA is sanctioning events. How can you say they do not? We've also seen time and time again the field for WPA WC's are stacked to the sky. Again, take CW's tournaments. The years it was WPA sanctioned the fields were maybe 5 times as strong as the years it was not.
Pro's are in the game to make a living. They will make light-years more $$ by going where MR leads. WC trophy's are nice to have on the mantle but these guys have to have a place to play week in week out. There aren't enough 'WC' events to keep a player fed. Look, i don't like WPA and never will. I hope MR steamrolls them out of existence.
You type like Goldmember...."My yohoo is made of Goolld."
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Maybe. Right now though the MR money is not enough. If it were to grow to a 1MM purse per event, then this would be a non-discussion.
The only entity in my pool career that has “claimed” to be life changing money was the IPT. They paid 300-500k for first place depending on the event. They “guaranteed” 100k to the last place member for the year. Of course we all know how that ended up.
The point is until MR gets into those kinds of numbers (which were from 2005/6), no one is really making a living from exclusively MR events.
The point is until MR gets into those kinds of numbers (which were from 2005/6), no one is really making a living from exclusively MR events.
True. But Fedor also topped the AZB money board one year exclusively from non-WPA events which included no MR. So there is money out there in the non-WPA side of the fence, especially with MR on that side now too.
Do you know how much pro's make from their national federation? Is that guaranteed money? I imagine whatever it is, those players would like to keep it. I still don't see anyone outside of the top 10 living large just because MR came along.
It's obvious you hate WPA, but blindly and joyously proclaiming MR the Lords of pro pool, seems a little premature. I would think all pool fans hope they are uber successful, but they could be gone from pool next year. .
MR is early in their pool game-plan. If they are half as successful in pool as they have in other games pool will be fine. If you'd have told me 20yrs ago that pro darts would be where it is i would have laughed in your face. Top 'darter' over the last 2yrs has made almost 1.3million pounds. that's crazy.
Well, you must mean 2022, which I believe to be the only year he led the money list.
You may be overlooking that the US Pro Billiard Series 10-ball events are WPA sanctioned events. In 2022, Fedor won the Arizona Open for $25,000 and the Ohio Open for $25,000 and had some other cashes in WPA sanctioned play. Hence, a substantial portion of his earnings came in WPA-sanctioned play in 2022.
As you note, however, by showing up to countless "minor" events in America, usually as the pre-tournament favorite, he made loads of money, but the truth is that he had no choice during the WPA ban. Looking forward to seeing exactly how he goes about his business in 2024.
Badpenguin
Well-known member
I'm curious about WPBA's financials, I can't locate any information on their web site. I wonder how much of the recent disruption they have brought is due primarily from money flowing in from Predator/CSI events. Those are the only events that I can see would matter to professional players as far as banning is concerned.
Anyone have any idea how to determine how much money WPBA is bringing in and spending?
Anyone have any idea how to determine how much money WPBA is bringing in and spending?
A period of separation can be a good experiment. It gives government officials a chance to review if Olympic sanctioned sports are worth pursuing.
Suppose there are 10 years of MR and WPA staying separate. If they grow separately then they are growing two different population groups. It is unclear who has more advantage over a longer term analysis. Appealing to two groups is a win for growing pool exposure.
Matchroom will likely grow in appeal to players and wealthy players that can afford to compete. This will push MR mainline of the most challenging conditions. To compete at the MR level its likely you will need a major investment upfront to budget for MC qualification. The players attracted to MR are likely very different than WPA players.
WPA focuses on government endorsement. WPA decisions will mask federation interests. WPA players will be "astronauts" in the pro sports world because their players will be from countries unexposed to professional pool promoters.
Ishaun needs his own podcast. WPA should not be using the Molina for press conferences to complain about being picked on.
The WPA podcast where everyone talks about how bans will save pool and MR is in the wrong.
Suppose there are 10 years of MR and WPA staying separate. If they grow separately then they are growing two different population groups. It is unclear who has more advantage over a longer term analysis. Appealing to two groups is a win for growing pool exposure.
Matchroom will likely grow in appeal to players and wealthy players that can afford to compete. This will push MR mainline of the most challenging conditions. To compete at the MR level its likely you will need a major investment upfront to budget for MC qualification. The players attracted to MR are likely very different than WPA players.
WPA focuses on government endorsement. WPA decisions will mask federation interests. WPA players will be "astronauts" in the pro sports world because their players will be from countries unexposed to professional pool promoters.
Ishaun needs his own podcast. WPA should not be using the Molina for press conferences to complain about being picked on.
The WPA podcast where everyone talks about how bans will save pool and MR is in the wrong.
Slightly off topic, Predator just announced a few minutes ago a 16 woman, 100k purse invitational event. (I assume free entry but not certain).
The WPA is trying to keep a level playing field for all promoters, IMO.
The WPA is trying to keep a level playing field for all promoters, IMO.
A level playing field is nineball on a heyball table. Start thinking like an ACBS official, its the future of the WPA. I am saying the next WPA President will be from the ACBS volunteers.