Pool Room or Bars with Pool Tables

[wonderlan]

Hello

In the past I have played in some of the very best ran pool rooms. For example the old long gone West End Pool Room in Elizabeth, NJ is what I consider to be a pool room. No loud music, No players allowed down in the playing area, No one allowed to make any noise or distract any playing players, A houseman/women who fully understood how to run the room. An owner and management that understood the importance of keeping a constant stable HVAC Thermostat setting. A room with the best playing equipment & conditions, A room that gave out baby powder and had an immediate on-site tip/shaft repair. A room that had a professional ball cleaner with the proper type of ball polish and the balls were constantly polished up, wiped down and keep in top playing cond. a room with proper lighting. a room that keep the cloth & rails clean. A room that catered to the serious player. The serious room for the serious pool player. The REAL POOL ROOM.

Today most all pool rooms are nothing more than Bars with pool tables with inexperienced unknowledgable workers with excessively loud music with mediocre to inferior equipment and nothing of the above mentioned.. For example I live in Orlando, Fl and Orlando does not have one real pool room. Any one from Orlando who feels that Bennett Rd is a real room has not ever been to a real pool room. Orlando has over 20 places to play with 9ft tables but not one of those rooms is a real pool room. Today the real pool room is becoming very scarce and a thing of the past.

I wish pool room owners and new business who open up pool rooms would first get a little real education about the sport and treat the room with respect to the sport. I feel that most all pool rooms today are seriously doing more harm than good for the sport. Today its getting scarce and difficult finding a good room to play in.. Most rooms today are a total joke. Amateur rooms more for consuming alcoholic beverages listening to excessively loud music, poor playing conditions, people running all over the place. No respect to players trying to play a serious game. I find most all new pool rooms today to be nothing more than Bars with pool tables in a total amateur type atmosphere with absolutely no real respect for the sport. The room owners seem like they couldn't care less about pool as a sport and worried all about filling their pool rooms with alcohol consuming customers listening to excessively loud music and no care at all for the sport of pool. I feel that most pool rooms today are the furthest thing from being a pool room and are nothing more than party bars with pool tables. There is not one real pool room in Orlando Fl where I live. I guess Jimmy's on OBT would be the closest thing to a real pool room in Orlando.

Where i live there are no real pool rooms. I guess many will say move.. So can you start naming the better pool rooms to play in your area and the reason why you feel your choice is a good choice of being a REAL POOL ROOM? I miss those old great rooms like the West End in Elizabeth, NJ or the old Hi Cue or the old Four Seasons.

ARE there any REAL POOL ROOMS LEFT in AMERICA?

Wonderlan wondering!

 

[Icon of Sin]

Pool Rooms have adapted to what they are now. What you dont consider a Pool room is in fact a real pool room by today's standard. It is harder now for rooms to stay open on table time alone. This is why they have a bar, sell food, have a jukebox for music and entertainment. Plus all this lures in the recreational players who just go and bang balls and hardly even know the rules of the game. The people that are there for a night out or on a date. The reason your "real pool rooms' are drying is up is because they can no longer stay open on table time and pool alone.

So to answer your question, there are plenty of real pool rooms out there in America, just no pool rooms of the past anymore.

 

[Black-Balled]

It is an example of supply/ demand.

In Laurel, MD, there is a real pool room, USA Billiards. North of Baltimore, there is another: Top Hat Cue Club.

Pool Rooms have adapted to what they are now. What you dont consider a Pool room is in fact a real pool room by today's standard. It is harder now for rooms to stay open on table time alone. This is why they have a bar, sell food, have a jukebox for music and entertainment. Plus all this lures in the recreational players who just go and bang balls and hardly even know the rules of the game. The people that are there for a night out or on a date. The reason your "real pool rooms' are drying is up is because they can no longer stay open on table time and pool alone.

So to answer your question, there are plenty of real pool rooms out there in America, just no pool rooms of the past anymore.

 

[LWW]

I agree and wish such places were more common, OTOH if the market was there for them that would allow them to survive they would be there...

LWW

 

[ShootingArts]

$50 an hour table time?

OK, the solution is simple. Real players have to be willing to support a real pool room. Will you and the other real players pay forty or fifty dollars an hour for table time?

It takes real dollars coming in to pay the expenses of running a business and make a modest profit. Five or ten dollars an hour table rent isn't going to get it done most places and few areas will support a pool room charging more.

Hu

Hello

In the past I have played in some of the very best ran pool rooms. For example the old long gone West End Pool Room in Elizabeth, NJ is what I consider to be a pool room. No loud music, No players allowed down in the playing area, No one allowed to make any noise or distract any playing players, A houseman/women who fully understood how to run the room. An owner and management that understood the importance of keeping a constant stable HVAC Thermostat setting. A room with the best playing equipment & conditions, A room that gave out baby powder and had an immediate on-site tip/shaft repair. A room that had a professional ball cleaner with the proper type of ball polish and the balls were constantly polished up, wiped down and keep in top playing cond. a room with proper lighting. a room that keep the cloth & rails clean. A room that catered to the serious player. The serious room for the serious pool player. The REAL POOL ROOM.

Today most all pool rooms are nothing more than Bars with pool tables with inexperienced unknowledgable workers with excessively loud music with mediocre to inferior equipment and nothing of the above mentioned.. For example I live in Orlando, Fl and Orlando does not have one real pool room. Any one from Orlando who feels that Bennett Rd is a real room has not ever been to a real pool room. Orlando has over 20 places to play with 9ft tables but not one of those rooms is a real pool room. Today the real pool room is becoming very scarce and a thing of the past.

I wish pool room owners and new business who open up pool rooms would first get a little real education about the sport and treat the room with respect to the sport. I feel that most all pool rooms today are seriously doing more harm than good for the sport. Today its getting scarce and difficult finding a good room to play in.. Most rooms today are a total joke. Amateur rooms more for consuming alcoholic beverages listening to excessively loud music, poor playing conditions, people running all over the place. No respect to players trying to play a serious game. I find most all new pool rooms today to be nothing more than Bars with pool tables in a total amateur type atmosphere with absolutely no real respect for the sport. The room owners seem like they couldn't care less about pool as a sport and worried all about filling their pool rooms with alcohol consuming customers listening to excessively loud music and no care at all for the sport of pool. I feel that most pool rooms today are the furthest thing from being a pool room and are nothing more than party bars with pool tables. There is not one real pool room in Orlando Fl where I live. I guess Jimmy's on OBT would be the closest thing to a real pool room in Orlando.

Where i live there are no real pool rooms. I guess many will say move.. So can you start naming the better pool rooms to play in your area and the reason why you feel your choice is a good choice of being a REAL POOL ROOM? I miss those old great rooms like the West End in Elizabeth, NJ or the old Hi Cue or the old Four Seasons.

ARE there any REAL POOL ROOMS LEFT in AMERICA?

Wonderlan wondering!

 

[macguy]

Hello

In the past I have played in some of the very best ran pool rooms. For example the old long gone West End Pool Room in Elizabeth, NJ is what I consider to be a pool room. No loud music, No players allowed down in the playing area, No one allowed to make any noise or distract any playing players, A houseman/women who fully understood how to run the room. An owner and management that understood the importance of keeping a constant stable HVAC Thermostat setting. A room with the best playing equipment & conditions, A room that gave out baby powder and had an immediate on-site tip/shaft repair. A room that had a professional ball cleaner with the proper type of ball polish and the balls were constantly polished up, wiped down and keep in top playing cond. a room with proper lighting. a room that keep the cloth & rails clean. A room that catered to the serious player. The serious room for the serious pool player. The REAL POOL ROOM.

Today most all pool rooms are nothing more than Bars with pool tables with inexperienced unknowledgable workers with excessively loud music with mediocre to inferior equipment and nothing of the above mentioned.. For example I live in Orlando, Fl and Orlando does not have one real pool room. Any one from Orlando who feels that Bennett Rd is a real room has not ever been to a real pool room. Orlando has over 20 places to play with 9ft tables but not one of those rooms is a real pool room. Today the real pool room is becoming very scarce and a thing of the past.

I wish pool room owners and new business who open up pool rooms would first get a little real education about the sport and treat the room with respect to the sport. I feel that most all pool rooms today are seriously doing more harm than good for the sport. Today its getting scarce and difficult finding a good room to play in.. Most rooms today are a total joke. Amateur rooms more for consuming alcoholic beverages listening to excessively loud music, poor playing conditions, people running all over the place. No respect to players trying to play a serious game. I find most all new pool rooms today to be nothing more than Bars with pool tables in a total amateur type atmosphere with absolutely no real respect for the sport. The room owners seem like they couldn't care less about pool as a sport and worried all about filling their pool rooms with alcohol consuming customers listening to excessively loud music and no care at all for the sport of pool. I feel that most pool rooms today are the furthest thing from being a pool room and are nothing more than party bars with pool tables. There is not one real pool room in Orlando Fl where I live. I guess Jimmy's on OBT would be the closest thing to a real pool room in Orlando.

Where i live there are no real pool rooms. I guess many will say move.. So can you start naming the better pool rooms to play in your area and the reason why you feel your choice is a good choice of being a REAL POOL ROOM? I miss those old great rooms like the West End in Elizabeth, NJ or the old Hi Cue or the old Four Seasons.

ARE there any REAL POOL ROOMS LEFT in AMERICA?

Wonderlan wondering!

I think many pool rooms open with the idea of having a real pool oriented room, if it was to be a pool room to start with, and not just a bar with a few tables. Problem is that after a short time they realize some of the realities of the business and they have to make changes just to try to survive. I never have gotten the reason for loud music maybe it is a throwback to disco or something. Pool rooms unless they are in a low rent area just require too much space and it cost too much to run just a pool room and make a living. Pool rooms like in the old days can't make it anymore. I owned a room in the early 70's and my rent was $475 a month and with electric and everything else my nut was total around $1000 a month. I got $1.20 an hour per player thats $4.80 an hour for four players and beer was $.75. I was making more money in the pool room business over 30 years ago then you can make today without any risk. I wouldn't open a room (real pool room) today if you held a gun on me, it is just too hard to make any money.

 

[OldHasBeen]

YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED "BUDDY'S ROOM" in Shreveport.

Mid to late '70's - Red Box (the owner of Guys & Dolls) built a private room with 2 perfect Gold Crowns in it. It was called "Buddy's Room".
It had nice seating behind glass partitions and it was temperature & humidity controlled. ANYONE (including Red) could be asked to leave by any player playing for any reason without any questions.
Both the tables were on closed circuit monitors that could be viewed from the front desk.
This was the best equipment and conditions I have ever seen.
Red then put an ad in all the mags offering free air & hotel to anyone who would come and play at least a $10K (or more) 9-Ball set with Buddy.
As far as I can remember - No One Responded.

TY & GL

 

[wonderlan]

poolroom or bar with tables

Pool Rooms have adapted to what they are now. What you dont consider a Pool room is in fact a real pool room by today's standard. It is harder now for rooms to stay open on table time alone. This is why they have a bar, sell food, have a jukebox for music and entertainment. Plus all this lures in the recreational players who just go and bang balls and hardly even know the rules of the game. The people that are there for a night out or on a date. The reason your "real pool rooms' are drying is up is because they can no longer stay open on table time and pool alone.

So to answer your question, there are plenty of real pool rooms out there in America, just no pool rooms of the past anymore.

Thank you Heath,
Your answer is obviously the true case and I didn't feel that I needed to mention the current state of the economy and realestate value vs a real pool room or bar with tables.. I'm a little bit more experienced in a deeper thought process of reasoning. I'm not naive to current realestate values. A simple answer to the modern bar owner with pool tables wanting to actually do something for the sport and for the pool players that are serious about their game would be as simple as constructing a separating wall or building a separate room JUST FOR those non drinking boring non partying but very serious players.. Any new pool room business can very simply keep their bar type amateur room while still constructing a REAL POOL ROOM Section.. That is what I mean when I mentioned that any new business owner should first get a little education about the business they are opening... So I have to fully disagree with that ideology of today's modern bar with pool tables having no other choice but to play excessively loud music 3pm in the afternoon with 3 tables going and 2 patrons sitting at the bar talking to the bar maid who hasn't the slightest clue about pool, to remain in business.. No thats just a business exactly what I'm saying... Just a party bar with pool tables and not even being close to being a pool room... Because if that business owner was actually serious and cared for the sport that owner could have very simply planned and constructed a separating wall while in the preliminary planning state. Hire an experienced worker and operate a perfectly great REAL POOL ROOM out of the same exact business.. Thats BS the current times leaving the business owner with no other choice.. The real truth is that most business owners don't have the proper experience or have the proper knowledge.. It's very easy to open a bar with tables for the loud partying crowd that pays the rent plus operate a perfectly REAL Serious POOL ROOM for real serious pool players out of the same business... See what I mean... Its a LACK of experience and knowledge which is the real reason for the diminishing real pool room today... A simple WALL could be the difference between paying the rent and making a profit while caring enough about the sport to give the serious players a place to play some serious pool... The is no real reason other than a lack of experience and the fact that the new business owner's not giving two craps about the sport.. ME I would have no problem building a bar with pool tables to pay the rent all while still be able to operate a perfectly great little serious real pool room if I wanted that kind of business.. The only difference would be the experience and knowledge and actually having a honest caring attitude for the sport..

So I must disagree with that simple amateur lack of experience attitude because where there is an honest will there is a real way of accomplishing the goal. There is no real reason other than the lack of knowledge and experience why we don't have real pool rooms today.... The business men do not give 2 craps for the sport as being a real sport... Me I try not to support those type of amateur establishments.. To me those type establishments are a joke and not a real pool room.. You hardly ever see a real player or pro playing in those type of bars with pool tables.. My real question was asking for any actual real pool rooms.. Where one could find a real pool room in America today. Not the reason why we have so many party bars with pool tables. To me thats obvious,,, lack of knowledge and experience and the lack of any real concern for the sport is the real reason why.. Any one with a little business sense can make a real pool room work in the proper location if that business knew what they were doing. Bars with pool tables ARE NOT POOL ROOMS.. Those type Bars with pool tables aren't close to being a pool room. If your serious about pool and have a need to excel at your game,,, stay away from those type of amateur places and find a real room with real players to help your game.. those bars with TVs and loud music with waitress running around the tables with trays of glasses with alcoholic beverages are NOT POOL ROOMS.. They are bars with pool tables for entertainment. Not pool rooms for serious play.

 

[Purdman]

Please Wonderland

No more novels. I will wait for the movie dude.
Unless you own the building, you ain't gonna make it on table time!
Purdman

 

[DougT]

No more novels. I will wait for the movie dude.
Unless you own the building, you ain't gonna make it on table time!
Purdman

Ditto that, Purdman;
Wonderlan, try to break your thoughts up a little. Your train of thought is tough to follow in your long rambling paragraphs. You'll get more thoughtful responses, and more of them.

 

[macguy]

No more novels. I will wait for the movie dude.
Unless you own the building, you ain't gonna make it on table time!
Purdman

Owning the building is a fallacy. You are still in a sense paying rent for the building in that you could have it rented out to someone else and would be collecting rent. Why would I want to take a 4500 sq ft building I'm getting $15. sq. ft for and occupy it myself maybe not making any more at the bottom line then I make now sitting home without all the other expenses and headaches of running the pool room. Other then no rent you still have to pay taxes electric insurance and pay help plus if the roof leaks you have to fix it as well as pay a mortgage if you don't own it free and clear. Still not the best deal, just not enough money to be made, not today.

I remember a friend of mine that owned a bowling alley told me when all was said and done all he saw as profit was what he made in the bar. Like a pool room but even more so a bowling alley really need a lot of room and what it produces just may not justify it's existence. He finally sold the land for like five million and retired. It was ridicules he used to put like 90 hours a week in the place for what was essentially nothing. His wife wanted to burn the place down.

 

[Gregg]

Hello

In the past I have played in some of the very best ran pool rooms. For example the old long gone West End Pool Room in Elizabeth, NJ is what I consider to be a pool room. No loud music, No players allowed down in the playing area, No one allowed to make any noise or distract any playing players, A houseman/women who fully understood how to run the room. An owner and management that understood the importance of keeping a constant stable HVAC Thermostat setting. A room with the best playing equipment & conditions, A room that gave out baby powder and had an immediate on-site tip/shaft repair. A room that had a professional ball cleaner with the proper type of ball polish and the balls were constantly polished up, wiped down and keep in top playing cond. a room with proper lighting. a room that keep the cloth & rails clean. A room that catered to the serious player. The serious room for the serious pool player. The REAL POOL ROOM.

Today most all pool rooms are nothing more than Bars with pool tables with inexperienced unknowledgable workers with excessively loud music with mediocre to inferior equipment and nothing of the above mentioned.. For example I live in Orlando, Fl and Orlando does not have one real pool room. Any one from Orlando who feels that Bennett Rd is a real room has not ever been to a real pool room. Orlando has over 20 places to play with 9ft tables but not one of those rooms is a real pool room. Today the real pool room is becoming very scarce and a thing of the past.

I wish pool room owners and new business who open up pool rooms would first get a little real education about the sport and treat the room with respect to the sport. I feel that most all pool rooms today are seriously doing more harm than good for the sport. Today its getting scarce and difficult finding a good room to play in.. Most rooms today are a total joke. Amateur rooms more for consuming alcoholic beverages listening to excessively loud music, poor playing conditions, people running all over the place. No respect to players trying to play a serious game. I find most all new pool rooms today to be nothing more than Bars with pool tables in a total amateur type atmosphere with absolutely no real respect for the sport. The room owners seem like they couldn't care less about pool as a sport and worried all about filling their pool rooms with alcohol consuming customers listening to excessively loud music and no care at all for the sport of pool. I feel that most pool rooms today are the furthest thing from being a pool room and are nothing more than party bars with pool tables. There is not one real pool room in Orlando Fl where I live. I guess Jimmy's on OBT would be the closest thing to a real pool room in Orlando.

Where i live there are no real pool rooms. I guess many will say move.. So can you start naming the better pool rooms to play in your area and the reason why you feel your choice is a good choice of being a REAL POOL ROOM? I miss those old great rooms like the West End in Elizabeth, NJ or the old Hi Cue or the old Four Seasons.

ARE there any REAL POOL ROOMS LEFT in AMERICA?

Wonderlan wondering!

I am cofused. So you are trying to say that real pool halls are a thing of the past?

 

[wonderlan]

Gommer plyle

No more novels. I will wait for the movie dude.
Unless you own the building, you ain't gonna make it on table time!
Purdman

Sorry Gommer,,

I'm looking for the more serious attitudes that can actually make a diifference and have something to really say. If 2 paragraphs are too much for people to handle than I feel sorry for our future. Maybe you can't make a pool room work but 10,000 others can and do have the experience and knowledge and willingness and brains. Thats the problem, not many really care. Thats exactly what the problem is.. Thats oK.. There are doers and there are those who do nothing. I have a different type of attitude because I do care. You seem to be ok and accept that type of entertainment room.. I don't. But then again i'm not the amatuer player either. This is a site for pool players isn't it??

 

[Ratchet]

Mid to late '70's - Red Box (the owner of Guys & Dolls) built a private room with 2 perfect Gold Crowns in it. It was called "Buddy's Room".
It had nice seating behind glass partitions and it was temperature & humidity controlled. ANYONE (including Red) could be asked to leave by any player playing for any reason without any questions.
Both the tables were on closed circuit monitors that could be viewed from the front desk.
This was the best equipment and conditions I have ever seen.
Red then put an ad in all the mags offering free air & hotel to anyone who would come and play at least a $10K (or more) 9-Ball set with Buddy.
As far as I can remember - No One Responded.

TY & GL

I live in lancaster,ohio, there used to be a pool room downtown called Brigg's
Billiards he had around 16 or more tables stretching the length of the building
he had a radio behind the counter which he turned on ocassionally and he also had some gambling pinball machine which I suspect is where he made his
real money , The pool tables up by the counter were the money tables which he monitored them from there so nothing got out of hand ,it was great to play there . When the building he was in got condemned he moved across town
to a small building with 2 tables only right next to a glass factory ,He then put in a grill and made the best tasting hamburger around, they caught on and sold like wildfire at the factory anyways he let his tables go to hell they ended up grease covered and worthless to play on ,Turns out he was running a bookie deal and got busted for it and having gambling machines ,when they raided his house they found over $800,000 dollars hid in a cardboard box in his kitchen . The place is still there today and is listed in the directory as a pool hall .There is one pool table there covered by grease still and the new owner
still cant make a decent hamburger like Briggs's were .

If it were not for that factory it would nave been long gone years ago .


Ratchet - misses the old pool hall days !

 

[macguy]

Sorry Gommer,,

I'm looking for the more serious attitudes that can actually make a diifference and have something to really say. If 2 paragraphs are too much for people to handle than I feel sorry for our future. Maybe you can't make a pool room work but 10,000 others can and do have the experience and knowledge and willingness and brains. Thats the problem, not many really care. Thats exactly what the problem is.. Thats oK.. There are doers and there are those who do nothing. I have a different type of attitude because I do care. You seem to be ok and accept that type of entertainment room.. I don't. But then again i'm not the amatuer player either. This is a site for pool players isn't it??

People are being serious, they are saying if you want to lose your ass open a pool room.

 

[wonderlan]

The real pool room

I am cofused. So you are trying to say that real pool halls are a thing of the past?

Yes, the honest truth is exactly what most have said. The real pool room has been extinct for many years. A pool table takes up about 50 sq ft plus the area for stroking the cue. Lease space basically cost from 10 to 20 sq ft. The math doesn't add up. A pool room is a foolish investment. Owning the land and operating a pool room is a labor of love as mentioned by one poster. Yes the real pool room is very scarce today.

If the sports bars would plan a separte section for serious playing then a real room could become a reality today. It's all a shame because pool is a real sport of talent and those talanted players don't have many good rooms to play in..

The pool rooms that do exsist today if the owners and managers would at least hire experienced help that would help. If the loud music was better controlled that would help. What we do have today many establishments are poorly operated.. It keeps coming back to experience and knowledge and having an honest concern for the sport as being a sport. ALL this would help.

 

[Rude Dog]

Sorry Gommer,,

I'm looking for the more serious attitudes that can actually make a diifference and have something to really say. If 2 paragraphs are too much for people to handle than I feel sorry for our future. Maybe you can't make a pool room work but 10,000 others can and do have the experience and knowledge and willingness and brains. Thats the problem, not many really care. Thats exactly what the problem is.. Thats oK.. There are doers and there are those who do nothing. I have a different type of attitude because I do care. You seem to be ok and accept that type of entertainment room.. I don't. But then again i'm not the amatuer player either. This is a site for pool players isn't it??

You should put your hard-hat on after this one dude. Purdy ain't no chump on the table, or off. Peace, John.

 

[wonderlan]

real pool rooms

You should put your hard-hat on after this one dude. Purdy ain't no chump on the table, or off. Peace, John.

Then lets all start doing something about where the pool rooms are going today or soon no body iis going have a good place to play in.. Pool is in very serious trouble today.. I'm one of the IPT players who came from back in that era of those great real pool rooms.. It was much diifferent and great back then... Pool is in big trouble today.. We can actually do somthing about this...

 

[Gregg]

Read this line and repeat it;

Pool rooms are profit making organizations.

Pool rooms are setup as businesses. If they were not making a profit, they could not pay rent, utilities, etc.

I don't' want to pick on a small few, who have opinions I respect, but these so called "real pool halls" with the atmosphere like "Ames" had in the movie "The Hustler" are not going to make it. They seem to believe that people would be lining up around the corner to get it.

Obviously, this is not the case. And if some of you old timers don't think so, put some of your nest egg money up for investment so open the "Ames" of your dreams, and report back to us how much money you are raking in.

BTW, I would love to play at "Ames" and think Straight pool is king when it comes to reveling a players skill and knowledge.

 

[Jack Madden]

Had to do some land research. Found that this little town my mail is sent to had a POOL ROOM (no bar) at the turn of the century - 1900 not 2000- couldn't have had more than 1,000 people at the time and most probably didn't have the proverbial "pot to piss in and a window to throw it out of". Population is still around 1,000 - no POOL ROOM - if you want to play pool you go to the TeePee Bar or the Silver Dollar Bar (2 bars and 6 or 7 churches). So its just the old rooms have evolved - probably so they can stay in business.
Jack
www.johnmaddencues.com