Pool student won't work/think?

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
The last thread I just posted reminded me of this -

I approached this kid looking for a game one day, or maybe the other way around, and we got along well and I gave him some advice. He ended up pretty much taking a full year-long "pool school" session from me, doing drills and listening and learning a ton. We're now pretty good friends and play each other every day. He went from running no more than 4 balls in 8 ball to running a couple of racks in a typical 3 hour session... from about an apa 3/4 to apa 5/6 in about a year.

Now that he understands english and has good fundamentals, the only thing holding him back from running out a lot more is thinking and playing carefully. I've told him to pick an exact point for his leaves, not just send the CB in a general direction. I've told him to look at all the options before each shot, just to see if he can solve a problem or do something more constructive than what he planned at first. I've explained patterns and how it's so important to get on the correct side of the next ball, etc.

But he just doesn't seem to want to think. Or at least, not always. For example, He could do a stop shot to get position on a short rail cut, but he follows anyway to get too straight. Sometimes he's clearly thinking ahead, but other times... every hanger is played with top, every long rail cut is played with low outside... every stop shot is done with a bit of draw, which ends up ruining the shape... he just goes on autopilot and relies on his straight shooting to bail him out.

The other day I got upset and was a bit of a jerk, which I regret. But it's frustrating that his desire to learn has burned out. I don't know if he's satisfied with his current level, or feels he's still improving at a steady rate so there's nothing to work on, or if I'm just being too harsh and expecting too much too fast. Maybe after playing with me so much he feels I don't have much more useful stuff to offer. I think he turns on the mental elevator music whenever I try to give him nonspecific advice about pinpoint position and safest paths and pattern play.

He also used to look forward to trying drills, now he just wants to play. He still likes pool enough to rent a table and play by himself (despite owning one at home) but he always just bangs 'em around or plays 8 ball vs. himself. I've tried to tell him that this isn't practicing, that he should do at least SOME kind of drilling before just zoning out and shooting, but he never does.

Does this happen to others? Am I just being too pushy?
 
Horse, water, blah blah blah.

Honestly, I think the best thing to do (if you can) is play him heads up and beat him. And beat him again. And again. Make him realize why he's losing.

When I first started playing 1-pocket, I had no teacher except my wallet. At a cheap $10 a game, I learned fast why I was losing. And I stopped losing so fast. I had to suppress my aggressive, immature desire to fire in a table-length shot and instead start moving balls.

Learning is a very personal experience. Those who want to get better will. Those who get enough knowledge and are stubborn to apply it have to learn a different way. Cripple their ego. Make them learn. It helped me.... though I still may be stubborn and aggressive at times =)

CreeDo said:
The last thread I just posted reminded me of this -

I approached this kid looking for a game one day, or maybe the other way around, and we got along well and I gave him some advice. He ended up pretty much taking a full year-long "pool school" session from me, doing drills and listening and learning a ton. We're now pretty good friends and play each other every day. He went from running no more than 4 balls in 8 ball to running a couple of racks in a typical 3 hour session... from about an apa 3/4 to apa 5/6 in about a year.

Now that he understands english and has good fundamentals, the only thing holding him back from running out a lot more is thinking and playing carefully. I've told him to pick an exact point for his leaves, not just send the CB in a general direction. I've told him to look at all the options before each shot, just to see if he can solve a problem or do something more constructive than what he planned at first. I've explained patterns and how it's so important to get on the correct side of the next ball, etc.

But he just doesn't seem to want to think. Or at least, not always. For example, He could do a stop shot to get position on a short rail cut, but he follows anyway to get too straight. Sometimes he's clearly thinking ahead, but other times... every hanger is played with top, every long rail cut is played with low outside... every stop shot is done with a bit of draw, which ends up ruining the shape... he just goes on autopilot and relies on his straight shooting to bail him out.

The other day I got upset and was a bit of a jerk, which I regret. But it's frustrating that his desire to learn has burned out. I don't know if he's satisfied with his current level, or feels he's still improving at a steady rate so there's nothing to work on, or if I'm just being too harsh and expecting too much too fast. Maybe after playing with me so much he feels I don't have much more useful stuff to offer. I think he turns on the mental elevator music whenever I try to give him nonspecific advice about pinpoint position and safest paths and pattern play.

He also used to look forward to trying drills, now he just wants to play. He still likes pool enough to rent a table and play by himself (despite owning one at home) but he always just bangs 'em around or plays 8 ball vs. himself. I've tried to tell him that this isn't practicing, that he should do at least SOME kind of drilling before just zoning out and shooting, but he never does.

Does this happen to others? Am I just being too pushy?
 
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From a teacher to a teacher

I think that you have simply run your course with this student. It sounds to me like you care about his game more than he does. Some people get burned out on pool...if you are constantly on him all the time, then he will dislike the game and probably dislike you. Leave him alone and let him find his own way.

Another idea is that the student perhaps thinks that he has "graduated" from you and can learn no more from you. If this is the case, you should let him go because it will simply more hassle than it is worth.

Bottom line is this...horse, water, blah blah blah....but also, dont beat a dead horse and that is exactly what youve got. You did the best you could...let it go for now.
 
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bomber said:
I think that you have simply run your course with this student. It sounds to me like you care about his game more than he does. Some people get burned out on pool...if you are constantly on him all the time, then he will dislike the game and probably dislike you. Leave him alone and let him find his own way.

I agree 100%.
 
Ya forget about this guy - work on the one with the uh.... things in the way. :D:D:D:D

BVal
 
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I agree with what Steven said about "those who want to get better, will". It sounds like he may have reached a point where he is either satisfied with his current level of play, or he is getting burned out on pool. Either way, it is going to be a hassle for you to keep pushing him. Like Bomber said, maybe just give him some time without any teaching and see how he does. Playing him some cheap games and beating him repeatedly might also jump start his interest in learning again too.

Good luck,
Jeremy
 
CreeDo said:
... But he just doesn't seem to want to think. Or at least, not always. For example, He could do a stop shot to get position on a short rail cut, but he follows anyway to get too straight. Sometimes he's clearly thinking ahead, but other times... ...
Well, you could introduce him to some other game where he would have to think, like one pocket or 3-cushion. One pocket because it requires pinpoint position frequently and 3-cushion because you can't play every ball on the cushion with outside draw.

As others have mentioned, maybe stiffer competition will motivate him.
 
To help him on his game, you might suggest to him watching professional matches. Personally, this has helped me more than anything. As far as running drills and such, sounds like he is just comfortable at the level of his play and you can't do much about that.
 
I think you should play a few sessions of "Jerry 4 ball" with him (Jerry Briesath's game). Break a 4 ball rack, and try to run them in rotation. Only catch is, all shots must be relatively easy (or they don't count as a successful runout). If you fail in any rack, you have the option to set them back up and try again until you succeed (but it only counts towards the score if you do it the first try, the re-set is just for educational purposes).

Play 20 racks apiece, winner gets 5 or 10 bucks. If he shows no interest in the game or the competition; or improvement as a result; it's time to cut him loose.

When he can do 15 out of 20 racks successfully, it's time to move on to "Jerry 5 ball"; but it's harder than it sounds.
 
Instead of focusing on the faults of the student imagine that you (the teacher) are not providing enough motivation for the student.

Would you trust a trainee to get anything right the first time and without help?

I would not because...well haven't you been in that position.
 
sounds like most of the votes lean towards let it be, which I think I will. I don't have much choice in it, as I hate to sour our friendship by riding him.

I already beat up on him daily like winning 5 or 6 to his 1 over several hours, so failing to beat me isn't motivating him. I dunno if adding money to the mix is a good idea or not. He has 10x the gamble that I have, on the other hand he already can get in a foul mood if he loses and losing money may make it worse.

I think he's just resigned to not being able to beat me even though he already is from time to time, or maybe he just wanted to impress before and now he doesn't.

We play straight pool but he's demoralized by the numbers. I suck at 1P but I could give it a try again with him. I dunno that he has the patience for a game that's mostly moving/safety play, and sadly 3c is not an option (no tables anywhere).

I'll just try to spice up our regular 8 ball with other stuff and if he likes that stuff, he might want to improve at it. We tried colors the other night (thanks for posting that Mr. Jewett) but it didn't quite 'catch'.

Maybe 9 ball, since he's more of a shotmaker and a gambler, and he probably has more chance to win also.
 
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