Pool's "Best Practices"

"You can't give away what you don't have"

Ron Swanson said:
Best practice? Not listening to Patrick Johnson for starters...
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That may be the best advice anyone could offer on this subject.

"You can't give away what you don't have" - this is a fact and certainly pertains to pool.

Maybe we could see a video of this legendary "pendulum stroke" - I have a feeling it's stored away with the other ones of BigFoot and the Lock Ness Monster. LoL :eek:

Bigfoot-and-the-Loch-Ness-Monster-e1417723824782.jpg
 
Nah, just here at 3:25.

No Loch Ness Monster here.

Do you want to see more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRNeETSAaE



CJ Wiley said:
That may be the best advice anyone could offer on this subject.

"You can't give away what you don't have" - this is a fact and certainly pertains to pool.

Maybe we could see a video of this legendary "pendulum stroke" - I have a feeling it's stored away with the other ones of BigFoot and the Lock Ness Monster. LoL :eek:

Bigfoot-and-the-Loch-Ness-Monster-e1417723824782.jpg
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This is why players get to a certain level and NEVER get any better

HawaiianEye said:
This is why pool is so screwed up. People can't even figure out if they are pulling or pushing the cue, much less try to explain it in a manner anybody can understand.

It doesn't make a damn what you call it...pushing, pulling, shoving, slamming, etc.

Maybe "moving the cue toward the cue ball" or "bringing the cue backward" may be easier to understand.
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That's because they don't "real eyes" that the game is played out in front of their bodies. Instead they get their stoking action behind them and have to "pull," which is not as effective. The golf stroke is the same, you must keep the stoke out in front of your body, or you run into a wall in the process of improvement.

This is why players get to a certain level and NEVER get any better.....someone's pool game should improve for a life-time. Just like everything else in the universe, if it's not improving it's moving in the opposite direction. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Tony_in_MD said:
OK replace the cue with a ball in front of your hand. When you make the ball move by swinging your arm it still a pulling motion that accomplishes it?

No, it is a push.

The orientation of the arm is making what should be a simple concept so difficult to sort out.

Perhaps another way to look at it is:

A forward stroke is a pulling motion if the majority of the weight of the cue is behind the grip.

If the majority of the cues weight is in front of the hand that is a push (at least to me)
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In simplest terms: A push is a motion directed away from you. A pull is a motion directed towards you. With a fixed elbow stroke, you are pulling your arm, below your elbow, up towards your torso. Try not to allow yourself to be clouded by the motion of the cue stick or it's position in your hand. It's the motion of the arm that we're discussing here.
 
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I know we are discussing the motion of the arm, that is what is clouding the issue, because of it's orientation.

The definition of a push, or pull has nothing to do with the motion of the arm.Toward the body is a pull and movement away from the body is a push, regardless of my arm motion or leg motion.

I guess like DTL said we have to agree to disagree.



Forward stroke, and back stroke are more appropriate IMHO.
FranCrimi said:
In simplest terms: A push is a motion away from you. A pull is a motion towards you. With a fixed elbow stroke, you are pulling your arm, below your elbow, up towards your torso. Try not to allow yourself to be clouded by the motion of the cue stick or it's position in your hand. It's the motion of the arm that we're discussing here.
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Tony_in_MD said:
I know we are discussing the motion of the arm, that is what is clouding the issue, because of it's orientation.

The definition of a push, or pull has nothing to do with the motion of the arm.Toward the body is a pull and movement away from the body is a push, regardless of my arm motion or leg motion.

I guess like DTL said we have to agree to disagree.



Forward stroke, and back stroke are more appropriate IMHO.
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I think it's definitely noteworthy that one form of forward stroke is a push and the other form is a pull. It may not appear important to you but I think it deserves a distinction other than lumping them all together as just forward strokes. You may not agree now, but I think after you think about it for awhile, you will agree that there is a pull stroke.

I came across the same type of resistance back when I coined the term 'loop stroke' here. It's since been accepted as term to describe a continuous stroke motion, such as the Filipino way. I remember everyone disagreeing with me that it was impossible for there to be a continuous motion stroke, until I explained the concept of a looping motion.
 
ENGLISH! said:
If one does the pause play pause play of Earl's stroke I think most will see that the tip was initially rather low & when he takes the cue back for the delivery stroke that the tip certainly seems to go up & then on the follow through the tip certainly seems to go down.

To make unequivocal conclusions from these types of videos, especially concerning an object that is moving that fast on such a relatively low frame per second system & especially while trying to catch what is so often said to be only .001 of a second, is chocked full of invalidity.

That is one reason that these types of videos are rather often found to be inadmissible in courts of law.

For about a year before Hurricane Katrina, I was selling what was one of the most up to date & highest tech such systems. So, I know a bit about them.

Best to All,
Rick
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I knew someone on here would try and discredit the video. But, I have to admit that I didn't expect someone to agree with what I and anyone can easily see, and then say that what we saw isn't reliable. If you can't believe what you see in pause action , what makes you believe you can believe what you see at full speed? You keep making claims of what the pros do, how do you then KNOW what they do when you can't believe what you see?

You really reached to the bottom of the barrel to come up with that discredit, Rick. But, I guess that's easier for you than the alternative.;)
 
Neil said:
I knew someone on here would try and discredit the video. But, I have to admit that I didn't expect someone to agree with what I and anyone can easily see, and then say that what we saw isn't reliable. If you can't believe what you see in pause action , what makes you believe you can believe what you see at full speed? You keep making claims of what the pros do, how do you then KNOW what they do when you can't believe what you see?

You really reached to the bottom of the barrel to come up with that discredit, Rick. But, I guess that's easier for you than the alternative.;)
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Neil,

I made no definitive statement about the shot in that video. Do you know what the word 'seems' means?

The point is that you continue to try to use blurred freeze frames from relatively slow frame per second video of rather high speed activities to make definitive statements as though they are fact & that you have proven something when that is simply not the case.

Especially when you are trying to capture what is a 1 to 2 thousandths of a second activity along with the fact that you are trying to capture & show what amounts to the 3mm contact patch & show it on screens of insufficient megapixels to even come anywhere near close to being able to do that at those distances.

Then as usual you make inaccurate statements about what others have said so as to distort the truth of matters.

I don't know if you do that intentionally or if there are other issues in play but it gets rather tiresome when you continually do it.

May Blessings Come Your Way.

PS For those interested here is the video so you can do your own 'pause play pause play' & make your own determination.

https://youtu.be/WDGvdPR_LHo

PPS Please note that the video is titled, 'Earl Strickland Equator Hit'.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Neil,

I made no definitive statement about the shot in that video. Do you know what the word 'seems' means?

The point is that you continue to try to use blurred freeze frames from relatively slow frame per second video of rather high speed activities to make definitive statements as though they are fact & that you have proven something when that is simply not the case.

Especially when you are trying to capture what is a 1 to 2 thousandths of a second activity along with the fact that your are trying to capture & show what amounts to the 3mm contact patch & show it on screens of insufficient megapixels to even come anywhere near close to being able to do that at those distances.

Then as usual you make inaccurate statements about what others have said so as to distort the truth of matters.

I don't know if you do that intentionally or if there are other issues in play but it gets rather tiresome when you continually do it.

May Blessing Come Your Way.

PS For those interested here is the video so you can do your own 'pause play pause play' & make your own determination.

https://youtu.be/WDGvdPR_LHo

PPS Please note that the video is titled, 'Earl Strickland Equator Hit'.
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Typical, try and discredit me simply because you can't and won't admit to the truth of what he is actually doing.
 
Used to call attention to one's impression or understanding about something,

ENGLISH! said:
Neil,

I made no definitive statement about the shot in that video. Do you know what the word 'seems' means?

The point is that you continue to try to use blurred freeze frames from relatively slow frame per second video of rather high speed activities to make definitive statements as though they are fact & that you have proven something when that is simply not the case.

Especially when you are trying to capture what is a 1 to 2 thousandths of a second activity along with the fact that your are trying to capture & show what amounts to the 3mm contact patch & show it on screens of insufficient megapixels to even come anywhere near close to being able to do that at those distances.

Then as usual you make inaccurate statements about what others have said so as to distort the truth of matters.

I don't know if you do that intentionally or if there are other issues in play but it gets rather tiresome when you continually do it.

May Blessing Come Your Way.

PS For those interested here is the video so you can do your own 'pause play pause play' & make your own determination.

https://youtu.be/WDGvdPR_LHo

PPS Please note that the video is titled, 'Earl Strickland Equator Hit'.
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This "Seems" to be correct. LoL - Looking at the definition of the word "seems" does make a difference doesn't it?

seem (redirected from seems)
Also found in: Legal, Idioms.
seem (sēm)
intr.v. seemed, seem·ing, seems
1. To give the impression of being in a certain way; appear to be: The child seems healthy, but the doctor is concerned. The house seems to be in good condition.
2. Used to call attention to one's impression or understanding about something, especially in weakening the force of a following infinitive: I can't seem to get the story straight.
3. To appear to be probable or evident: It seems you object to the plan. It seems like rain.
 
Neil said:
Typical, try and discredit me simply because you can't and won't admit to the truth of what he is actually doing.
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Neil,

I would ignore you & not reply, but AGAIN, you make a false statement.

I did not try to discredit YOU.

I merely pointed out that what you were offering 'as proof' is extremely far from being conclusive as you purport it to be.

I'm sorry to say that you discredit yourself.

Again, May Blessings Come Your Way & May You Have a Good Evening & a Great Sunday.
 
CJ Wiley said:
This "Seems" to be correct. LoL - Looking at the definition of the word "seems" does make a difference doesn't it?

seem (redirected from seems)
Also found in: Legal, Idioms.
seem (sēm)
intr.v. seemed, seem·ing, seems
1. To give the impression of being in a certain way; appear to be: The child seems healthy, but the doctor is concerned. The house seems to be in good condition.
2. Used to call attention to one's impression or understanding about something, especially in weakening the force of a following infinitive: I can't seem to get the story straight.
3. To appear to be probable or evident: It seems you object to the plan. It seems like rain.
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Just what we need, the guy that gets most definitions wrong giving definitions.

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ENGLISH! said:
Neil,

I would ignore you & not reply, but AGAIN, you make a false statement.

I did not try to discredit YOU.

I merely pointed out that what you were offering 'as proof' is extremely far from being conclusive as you purport it to be.

I'm sorry to say that you discredit yourself.

Again, May Blessings Come Your Way & May You Have a Good Evening & a Great Sunday.
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Rick, your nonsensical lies are what drive so many away on here. NOTHING is said is false, and everyone except CJ knows it. Here's your quote- "To make unequivocal conclusions from these types of videos, especially concerning an object that is moving that fast on such a relatively low frame per second system & especially while trying to catch what is so often said to be only .001 of a second, is chocked full of invalidity."

YOU said it can't be relied on. You also alluded to some crap claim about it can't hold up in court just because it's a video. Which is obvious nonsense. Videos are used all the time to convict people.

You use the word "seem" to give you an out simply because you won't admit to what he is obviously doing. The only one discredited here is you, and that is because you can't admit to what even you see.

You will reach to unfathomable depths to discredit any one on here that you put in the " instructor or science" camps, with the two known exceptions being Fran and CJ.

Rather than simply stating what you actually see, that he is not dropping his elbow before contact, and that he does hit the cb with follow, and we all learn from it, you have to go off on another of your discredit the messenger rants. You learn nothing that way, only continue to cause dissent and angst on here which drives people away.
 
CJ Wiley said:
It's seems like you guys trying to teach pool that can't really play pool....ironic isn't it?

ironic0031.jpg
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Yeah, running twelve racks is someone that can't play. :rolleyes: There is a big difference between teaching pool and playing pool. One would think that you would know that by now. One would also think that you would be smart enough not to make such a foolish claim as that, because it has been thoroughly discredited by many greater than you.

With your past playing ability, and your wonderful teaching now, I expect we will see you taking on todays pros any day now and showing them how to play the game, correct?? Or, can't you play at that level anymore, despite, or because of your teaching?
 
Neil said:
...if someone wants to tell me how to capture the picture and not the video itself, I will post the picture of him at contact.
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I haven't followed this conversation, so I'm not weighing in on it, but here's the still at the moment of contact, with the elbow unmoved.

For what it's worth, I'd say this stroke did what a pendulum stroke is supposed to do: kept the elbow still through contact.

pj
chgo

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