Possible reason why pool isn't popular with the masses.

You're talking about $200 a day.

Providing 8 hours of good, pool lessons not only means working ALL DAY but working very hard. :eek:

JoeyA

If that's working hard, let's put a shovel or hammer in their hands and see what job they choose. :grin: Not to mention the weather... :eek:

Best,
Mike
 
Published previously:

IDEA: OFFICIAL USA POOL PLAYER MOVEMENT

It’s quite clear that pool players worldwide need to voice, so let’s cut to the chase…

The movement should be conceived through the notion of wanting to make change for the good of the game. So we need the following (please add):

1. REGULAR MEETINGS: This should consist of;
Face to face, tele-meetings and internet chat rooms. We have in place -
AZBILLIARDS = FREE and supportive of the pool player
SKYPE = FREE
EXISTING MAJOR EVENTS -
I suggest that regular meetings take place at gatherings such as The DCC, The SBE and The BCAPL Finals (I’m sure others could be used). Pool players should agree on a location and time to carry out a productive 2-3 hours meeting which should be chaired and minuted by accepted volunteers. On a personal note, I may be able to attend 1 or 2 meetings in person - failing that I would be available for SKYPE meetings.

2. A RECRUITMENT POLICY - Get as many people to sign up and be members. Membership is FREE to the first 1000 members. Thereafter membership costs $1 usd. HIS IS NOT REVENUE GENERATED for the initial set up.

3. SET REAL AGENDA’S WITH REAL OUTCOMES - First meeting should be driven to outline the movements NAME, objectives, terms and conditions and a proposed PLAN OF ACTION in the form of an official REPORT.

4. OFFICIAL WEBSITE & SOCIAL MEDIAS - for al latest news and developments.
Website cost = $0.00 I will donate my time to build a website and maintain it upon the official membership target of 1000 members has been hit. This is to NOT WASTE ANYONE’S TIME AND EFFORTS.

HTC- HERE”S TO CHANGE
Once a target of 1000 members has been hit, new proposals and targets should be set in place. There is an opportunity of sponsorship here as you can read above, I have lifted HTC’S slogan. Nothing is guaranteed but at least this shows direction. With a MASTER PLAN and a following, I remain positive that company’s will show interest in us. Numbers changes EVERYTHING!

PLEASE NOTE: This is just a sketch idea and will need YOUR support and efforts to get this off the ground. I also propose that WE invite Badi Nazhat to become the first OFFICIAL MEMBER of this movement in honour of his efforts so far to move pool in the right direction!

Also - this IS NOT an idea proposal for me to take charge or try to run this movement! It is not my intention to become the pool master of any of you. I live for the FREE WORLD.

Feel free to add, however the time is now to ACT not critic…
WHAT DO YOU THINK? - IT’S UP TO YOU, THE POOL PLAYERS NOW.
 
The Home market

I'm not sure on this but I would tend to think that the home market in pool might be much larger than the Commercial Interests where we meet to play. So its possible that we have some strong numbers just no organization. Someone has to be reputable enough to legitimately do anything for the sport but whatever the numbers are only a fraction will care enough to contribute.
 
I'm not sure on this but I would tend to think that the home market in pool might be much larger than the Commercial Interests where we meet to play. So its possible that we have some strong numbers just no organization. Someone has to be reputable enough to legitimately do anything for the sport but whatever the numbers are only a fraction will care enough to contribute.

True. I have been astonished by the fact that literally, almost all of my daughter's friends' families have pool tables in their homes.

Not a single 'real' table, and I'd guarantee none of those people give a poop about pro pool.
 
I personally think that 'pro' pool is pretty much a thing of the past in our country. Hustlers are heading down the same path towards extinction as well. Pool in the future will be played mainly at home as a game with friends and family to pass the time and have some fun. I believe if you asked the table mechanics they would tell you that a large majority of their income is from home table installations and maintenance. There will also be some pool halls left that are smart enough to get as many leagues per week as they possibly can. Leagues bring in folks that want to have some fun a few drinks and something light to eat during the night. League folks are also the ones booking most lessons I'd bet. No pool halls will be able to survive on pool alone, that is already a thing of the past. They will need to make their money on liquor, food, table time and anything else they can come up with, pool itself will not be the big draw at these establishments. Just the way I see things!
 
Why isnt Pool Popular with the Masses

Simply its because no one is exposing the General Public to the game.

If you could pick up a magazine in a Medical Center and read about it then there would be exposure.

If you saw ads talking about how fun it was there would be exposure.

No exposure. None. Nada. Zilch.

There are probably a lot of people who will never play pool simply because they have no cause to think about it and we aren't jogging there mind to ever think that.
 
The most members ever online in a single day was 2,962 back in February 2013. I'd double that to estimate the total number of active AZers = 5,924.

I'd like to help, but why would I contribute $10 to increase the prize fund of pool tournaments? Boosting the first-place prize to $15,000 from $10,000 isn't going to result in one more new pool player.

Like politics, pool has to be sold at the local level. Get 100 people to join a league. Ten of them will get serious about the game and take lessons, buy gear, etc. One or two of those will enter regional tournaments. Do that 100 times and you'll find an SVB in the hay.

Sorry, no get-rich-quick schemes.

I feel this is 100% correct. And the reason I would not donate 10 bucks to such a thing.

I would rather donate to a young kid (interested in learning the game) to buy their first cue. Pool would take years to reach a higher level of interest amongst the masses. But it starts with showing many of the youth early on how great the game can be.
 
Yep Yep Yep

I feel this is 100% correct. And the reason I would not donate 10 bucks to such a thing.

I would rather donate to a young kid (interested in learning the game) to buy their first cue. Pool would take years to reach a higher level of interest amongst the masses. But it starts with showing many of the youth early on how great the game can be.

FlyVirginiaGuy,

You are exactly right. If we had enough money to fund Pro Pool forever it would not create one new player.

Our money would be better spent on grassroots effort that touch base with the general public and with young people, they are the future of the sport.
 
If we had enough money to fund Pro Pool forever it would not create one new player.

Our money would be better spent on grassroots effort that touch base with the general public and with young people, they are the future of the sport.

Exactly right! One of the things I continually fail to understand is why pro pool players would expect even a cent from the world of amateur pool. The pros is America do very little for the American amateur players, and as we just saw, represented our country poorly in the Mosconi Cup. The Mosconi Cup, we need to understand, is the only time that the elite American players not named Shane, are visible to most of the international pool community, and that's why the image of American pro pool has taken a big hit overseas.

Giving money to pro pool is something one should consider if they are so inclined, but it needs to be understood as charity, and unlike most charities you can give to, it's not tax deductible. I contribute about $5,000 a year to pro tournaments on the American pool calendar, and I'm happy to do so, but I really don't think anybody should feel obligated to contribute anything.

As your post correctly notes, we'd be far better off focusing on the next generation of players than this one. The growth and success of things like a) Mark Wilson's Billiard Scholarship program at Lindenwood University in Missouri and b) the just announced Black Widow Junior Camp look to be very important to the health of the game in America.

The youth and amateur scenes in pool matter far more than the pro scene right now, and that's pretty hard to fathom.
 
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Exactly right! One of the things I continually fail to understand is why pro pool players would expect even a cent from the world of amateur pool. The pros is America do very little for the American amateur players, and as we just saw, represented our country poorly in the Mosconi Cup. The Mosconi Cup, we need to understand, is the only time that the elite American players not named Shane, are visible to most of the international pool community, and that's why the image of American pro pool has taken a big hit overseas.

Giving money to pro pool is something one should consider if they are so inclined, but it needs to be understood as charity, and unlike most charities you can give to, it's not tax deductible. I contribute about $5,000 a year to pro tournaments on the American pool calendar, and I'm happy to do so, but I really don't think anybody should feel obligated to contribute anything.

As your post correctly notes, we'd be far better off focusing on the next generation of players than this one. The growth and success of things like a) Mark Wilson's Billiard Scholarship program at Lindenwood University in Missouri and b) the just announced Black Widow Junior Camp look to be very important to the health of the game in America.

The youth and amateur scenes in pool matter far more than the pro scene right now, and that's pretty hard to fathom.

If I had those numbers as quoted in another post above I think it was 2982 and lets just say that those people wanted to do something to help pool. I think this use is the best thing they can do.

2982 x $10=29,820 dollars and that's not a paltry sum

How much does the cheapest bar box cost?
Brand New Im guessing 3k at most and I would be that you can get a used Bar Box for pretty cheap.

My idea is this: You go around with a truck full of Bar Boxes and you use this money to subsidize the cost for the places you are going to install them.

So if a Bar Box cost you $1200 you knock off 700 and when you put it into a local store you tell the guy this:

This Bar Box will create people standing around wanting to play. The money you will make off of it will be small, kind of like darts. So use it to get the kids in here and keep some adults entertained. They will buy sodas, drinks, cakes, snacks and pick up things they normally wouldn't because they are busy on the table. Don't charge over a quarter for the table and let the table work its magic for you will make enough to get it covered and then some but the activity will make your place the place a lot of people come to gather. Leave it at a quarter and people will come and play.

This way the table does all of the work for you. It says Pool to the masses. It is cheap to play and people need entertainment and they will. Especially the kids. When people tried to make a living off of Pool alone it started its down hill track. Paired with a business it created an atmosphere of togetherness that created a social situation where it was possible to make money at.....The Place.

That's they way I see Pool working out, you get Tables out in the Community, one table or two here and there where kids can find them. You get the Grass Roots efforts we all harp about. You spend some money but you can afford what you spend. When people see and hear that their money is doing some good then it wont be hard to get people to ante up some more.

A $10 donation isn't going to hurt anyone, especially if they are prone to enter pool tournaments for much more. If you have 2982 people who put in 50 or even more in a years time you can have very positive results for the game.

2982 x 50=$ 149,100 dollars / 700 of subsidize money= 213 Bar Boxes Subsidized

If you put 213 bar boxes out in 1 State that's a lot of Bar Boxes and it wouldn't take long for people to start thinking about Pool because when they go to the store they would see it. They would see people having fun, playing pool.

That's all of the message that you need to send.

Pool is fun and kids love to play. Then someone buys a home table, some cues, some supplies and Pool gets the facelift it needs with the General Public.
 
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If I had those numbers as quoted in another post above I think it was 2982 and lets just say that those people wanted to do something to help pool. I think this use is the best thing they can do.

2982 x $10=29,820 dollars and that's not a paltry sum

How much does the cheapest bar box cost?
Brand New Im guessing 3k at most and I would be that you can get a used Bar Box for pretty cheap.

My idea is this: You go around with a truck full of Bar Boxes and you use this money to subsidize the cost for the places you are going to install them.

So if a Bar Box cost you $1200 you knock off 700 and when you put it into a local store you tell the guy this:

This Bar Box will create people standing around wanting to play. The money you will make off of it will be small, kind of like darts. So use it to get the kids in here and keep some adults entertained. They will buy sodas, drinks, cakes, snacks and pick up things they normally wouldn't because they are busy on the table. Don't charge over a quarter for the table and let the table work its magic for you will make enough to get it covered and then some but the activity will make your place the place a lot of people come to gather. Leave it at a quarter and people will come and play.

This way the table does all of the work for you. It says Pool to the masses. It is cheap to play and people need entertainment and they will. Especially the kids. When people tried to make a living off of Pool alone it started its down hill track. Paired with a business it created an atmosphere of togetherness that created a social situation where it was possible to make money at.....The Place.

That's they way I see Pool working out, you get Tables out in the Community, one table or two here and there where kids can find them. You get the Grass Roots efforts we all harp about. You spend some money but you can afford what you spend. When people see and hear that their money is doing some good then it wont be hard to get people to ante up some more.

A $10 donation isn't going to hurt anyone, especially if they are prone to enter pool tournaments for much more. If you have 2982 people who put in 50 or even more in a years time you can have very positive results for the game.

2982 x 50=$ 149,100 dollars / 700 of subsidize money= 213 Bar Boxes Subsidized

If you put 213 bar boxes out in 1 State that's a lot of Bar Boxes and it wouldn't take long for people to start thinking about Pool because when they go to the store they would see it. They would see people having fun, playing pool.

That's all of the message that you need to send.

Pool is fun and kids love to play. Then someone buys a home table, some cues, some supplies and Pool gets the facelift it needs with the General Public.

If this post proves anything....it proves that there are some thinking people out there with solid, positive ideas.

I often wondered why a large mall would not have a small bar in it with a couple or three bar boxes just for the husbands/boyfriends who really didn't want to tag along behind their SO's during a shopping trip.

I mean...picture this: A bored husband...a shopaholic wife...headed to the mall for an outing together...husband gets to sip bourbon and shoot some pool....wife gets to shop without the husband looking over her shoulder telling her how much money she can spend....then they both get to enjoy the ride home together, as both have just accomplished something satisfying.....good for the wife...good for the husband!!!

Comments???

Maniac
 
Thanks for the comments

If this post proves anything....it proves that there are some thinking people out there with solid, positive ideas.

I often wondered why a large mall would not have a small bar in it with a couple or three bar boxes just for the husbands/boyfriends who really didn't want to tag along behind their SO's during a shopping trip.

I mean...picture this: A bored husband...a shopaholic wife...headed to the mall for an outing together...husband gets to sip bourbon and shoot some pool....wife gets to shop without the husband looking over her shoulder telling her how much money she can spend....then they both get to enjoy the ride home together, as both have just accomplished something satisfying.....good for the wife...good for the husband!!!

Comments???

Maniac

Maniac,
I appreciate your kind words about my idea. I thought it was a decent idea myself. If I were someone who made my living from the sale of items that pertained to pool I would have to consider this one myself.

I keep learning more about the pool market. The thing that I see is that the commercial market where we might meet to play is probably only a fraction of the pool market and the home market is probably bigger although they don't cause a lot of supplies to be used, its still there like a foundation. So I think people are hesitant to care about the commercial market or someone would be willing to do something for pool.

I think that the commercial market is returning to the Bar Box and its roots, like Bar Boxes in stores and places like that and people aren't going to continue jamming dollars in a table to play either.

This says a lot about the game and it may be the result of a lot of things but when the tables moved from places of Recreation to Bars pool started slacking off due to the fact that kids had no place to play pool like they did in the Recreation Center Days.

I do believe that a push to bring that back will bring pool back but its going to be a slow road but it might likely happen all by itself in a much longer time. If no interest is there to do anything with pool that's how its going to be.

I see places around me folding up and going away and it makes me sad but I get the idea that I might have build an building and buy a table if I plan to keep playing.

No one seems to really be in line to benefit financially from this because the tables that are cheap are used tables so the table manufacturers wont benefit until an enthusiast gets all fired up and buys a table from them and that could be a ways down the road.

I do believe this idea would work great but getting a bunch of pool players to shuck out 10cents might be a hard sell when it doesn't put anything back in there pocket.
Its sad but that's the way the business world works. It has to be in someone's best interest and finding that someone is the key to a good idea working. I was hoping that it might be in someone's interest but I don't know about that one.

One thing I might add here is that when Bars and Pool Rooms cease to exist so will the Pool League System. There will still be pockets where Pool is popular in cities but everyone is going to take a hit in the commercial end of things. Perhaps the League Systems will get in the Room Business after all. It would be rightful and fitting but league play will cost a lot more and that might not work out either.
 
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Rent in the mall is absurdly high. Space is very precious and limited. No business in the mall is going to keep a couple bar box in their establishment when it brings in zero revenue.

If this post proves anything....it proves that there are some thinking people out there with solid, positive ideas.

I often wondered why a large mall would not have a small bar in it with a couple or three bar boxes just for the husbands/boyfriends who really didn't want to tag along behind their SO's during a shopping trip.

I mean...picture this: A bored husband...a shopaholic wife...headed to the mall for an outing together...husband gets to sip bourbon and shoot some pool....wife gets to shop without the husband looking over her shoulder telling her how much money she can spend....then they both get to enjoy the ride home together, as both have just accomplished something satisfying.....good for the wife...good for the husband!!!

Comments???

Maniac
 
Bar owners know about pool tables, they have made their decisions. Rec. centers would be great, but I've only seen them in gated community settings. Schools, wishful thinking.

Its sad to say, but we all know pool is in a desperate state. First we need organization, someone to calculate statistics on how many rooms open and close(and why). Then we need a chain of quality rooms with good food and drinks. Kinda like Dave and Busters, but with good equipment and without all the fluff.

I know its a lotto fantasy, a tall order.....sniff sniff.
 
Rent in the mall is absurdly high. Space is very precious and limited. No business in the mall is going to keep a couple bar box in their establishment when it brings in zero revenue.

There's a store in my local mall that sells NOTHING but hats (as in: ball caps). They have been in business for years now. More men drink than wear ball caps.

The money would be made in alcohol sales....not table time.

Every single trip I have ever made to the mall with my wife....if there had been a place to have a drink and smack a few balls around...I would have been there in a heartbeat....and I bet there are other men that would too.

How many men that actually accompany their wives/girlfriends to the mall do you actually believe enjoys the "shopping experience"???

Maniac
 
Its sad to say, but we all know pool is in a desperate state.


A lot of people say this....but I don't agree with it.

Professional pool in America is in a desperate state.

Public pool halls (in SOME areas) are in a semi-desperate state.

Home pool tables and amateur leagues are still holding there own.

Are figures down??? Sure...it's a cycle.....just like the global warming/cooling is. Pool is not up at this time...but desperate....hardly!!!

Come to the D-FW area pool halls on league night...most any decent pool hall....and see what you find.

Maniac
 
The Cycle

A lot of people say this....but I don't agree with it.

Professional pool in America is in a desperate state.

Public pool halls (in SOME areas) are in a semi-desperate state.

Home pool tables and amateur leagues are still holding there own.

Are figures down??? Sure...it's a cycle.....just like the global warming/cooling is. Pool is not up at this time...but desperate....hardly!!!

Come to the D-FW area pool halls on league night...most any decent pool hall....and see what you find.

Maniac

Maniac,
I don't think youre wrong but the Cycle you speak of is like anything else its tied to the Economy. If you are a market pundit you have to realize at some point the market will change and prices have to change along with it or things die out.

If we do what the market asks and change prices, and make pool available to the youth not to mention everyone else then these places who are having problems might get a few more dollars due to activity and when the cycle goes back up then there will be more grass roots to propel the popularity but.........It doesn't seem to me that unless we have an association that binds people who care that we have any chance of that ever happening in my humble opinion. Industry Members don't seem concerned perhaps you are right and we shouldn't be either.
 
A lot of people say this....but I don't agree with it.

Professional pool in America is in a desperate state.

Public pool halls (in SOME areas) are in a semi-desperate state.

Home pool tables and amateur leagues are still holding there own.

Are figures down??? Sure...it's a cycle.....just like the global warming/cooling is. Pool is not up at this time...but desperate....hardly!!!

Come to the D-FW area pool halls on league night...most any decent pool hall....and see what you find.

Maniac


Pool thrives here in Queens too, so I know what you mean, Maniac. That's great for us, but big cities just aren't enough. You hear about rooms closing up all the time. The times of "making it" in the pool room business have become dependent on liquor, food, and how attractive the staff is.
 
The hum that going on today in different threads indicates that it wouldn't be very many.

JoeyA

I would put in 50 or more. I am sure some people would give more but make it 10 min. Do it for a few months and promote it on AZ everyday with good reports of the turn out even if you have to fib a little.
 
I would put in 50 or more. I am sure some people would give more but make it 10 min. Do it for a few months and promote it on AZ everyday with good reports of the turn out even if you have to fib a little.

After a few months of donations, I doubt that there would be enough money to send one AZB horse to a regional tournament.

Fibbing is kind of like stretching the truth but not really a lie? Well, maybe I'll reserve that for matching up in the pool room. :D

JoeyA
 
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