Possible sealer for shafts?

Newton

Newton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have pretty much been doing service without using any type of waxes or liquids. Searching for some high tech oils for my CNC machine I came over this product:
http://www.elfaelektroonika.ee/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?artnr=80-819-11&lng=eng

Any thought of using this as a last sealer together with a light sand after words and burnish ? Spraying on a towel and quickly wipe over the shaft in the lathe
was the general idea..

Or have I now ended on the same WD40 wagon discussed earlier here ?

It was just an idea I had

N
 
It got my attention but I'd want to see the 'Product Safety Specs' sheet on it first. The product's name suggests teflon.
 
I wouldn't use this myself. It is a mechanical lubricant, not a sealer. Yes, you're in the WD-40 ballpark.

It is also almost $200 a can. That's a lot of money to try something out especially when it probably won't work.
 
KJ Cues said:
It got my attention but I'd want to see the 'Product Safety Specs' sheet on it first. The product's name suggests teflon.
Click to expand...

Here is a cut'n paste from the health sheet. Not to easy to make a table on here :)

CAS-number *** Chemical name *** Concentration *** Risk phrases

64742-49-0 *** Hydrocarbon solvents *** 40-50 % *** F, Xn, N, R:11-38-65-67,51/53
67-63-0 *** Isopropanol (IPA) *** 3-6 % *** F, Xi, R:11-36-67
74-98-6 *** Propane *** 10-20 % *** F+, R 12
106-97-8 *** Butane *** 10-20 % *** F+, R 12


Paul: I'm not in the US so the price is not dollars. Prox price is $18 which I think all of us could afford.
As mentioned - "Dry lubricant for objects that demand stainless lubrication. Suitable for metal, wood , leather and textile surfaces. Repels water, oil, dirt and dust. Does not contain oil or grease. yadi yadi yadi" What is a sealer by the way :confused: Is the only product used wax or is there any other products used?
As mentioned, I have never used any thing so I'm new to this. However if I find something which makes my process possibly to stand out from the crowd and have customers coming back - just to get THAT feeling - I'll use it if it's not harmful for the equipment.

BarrenB: Yes I did read Eddies suggestion and the conclusion so I know WD40 is a no go. But let's keep the discussion to the mentioned product and leave Eddie out of this one. I can see that there is a big argument on here in respect of E.W which I don't want to get involved with.

N
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
If you go to the ask eddie section of this forum I'm sure he can tell you if it's any good or not.
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I love it! :D
 
Newton,

A sealer is a material that forms a barrier on or in the wood. Nothing can pass through the barrier and get into the wood , such as dirt, water, soda, chalk, or clear finish.

Usually a sealer is the first coat of finishing material you put on the butt of a cue you are finishing. Once the cue is properly sealed you apply your final clear coat finishe over the top of it. There are lacquer sealers, shellac sealers, varnish sealers, etc.

A number of cue makers use a lacquer sealer on their shafts. I'm talking about the front of the shaft. They apply a coat, let it soak in and dry then sand the shaft just to the point where the wood is exposed, This leaves some sealer in the shaft and still makes it feel like there is no finish on it. At this point you can sand and polish the shaft.

It is not a very tough material compared to the top coats that go over the sea;er but some people use it as a finish which leads to scratching.

I ddin't notice that the price wasn't dollars but I would also be afraid that if I ever wanted to put a finish over wood with this lubricant on it, I would run into insurmountable problems.
 
After giving this a little thought, I'm not sure that we need to explore any new products for sealing shafts. What we have works pretty darn well already. I try to keep things simple and to that end, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. That's not to say that any accepted method can't be improved upon but right now, this doesn't appear to be a problem area.

Currently, there must be 100s of ways to seal wood. I happen to prefer a lacquer based sanding sealer. It provides a hard protective seal-coat. I thin it down a little to give it better penetration properties and if necessary, two or more applications are readily accepted with light sanding btwn. coats. Micro-fibre cloth abrasives in various grits will give you a glass-like surface. Top it off with a light coating of carnuba car wax. The result will be a shaft that glides effortlessly.

After a shaft has been out in the world for a while and seen sufficient use it acquires an additional coating along the way called 'patina'. This is comprised of the natural oils of your hands. This is such a desirable surface coating that a lot of knowledgeable players will not have their shafts cleaned for fear of removing the patina.
 
KJ Cues said:
After giving this a little thought, I'm not sure that we need to explore any new products for sealing shafts. What we have works pretty darn well already. I try to keep things simple and to that end, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. That's not to say that any accepted method can't be improved upon but right now, this doesn't appear to be a problem area.

Currently, there must be 100s of ways to seal wood. I happen to prefer a lacquer based sanding sealer. It provides a hard protective seal-coat. I thin it down a little to give it better penetration properties and if necessary, two or more applications are readily accepted with light sanding btwn. coats. Micro-fibre cloth abrasives in various grits will give you a glass-like surface. Top it off with a light coating of carnuba car wax. The result will be a shaft that glides effortlessly.

After a shaft has been out in the world for a while and seen sufficient use it acquires an additional coating along the way called 'patina'. This is comprised of the natural oils of your hands. This is such a desirable surface coating that a lot of knowledgeable players will not have their shafts cleaned for fear of removing the patina.
Click to expand...

When it's not broke you don't fix it. Experimentation and new products are all fine but why take the chance? I'm sure a few will though. There is a proving ground that needs to be explored before making it an everyday habit.
 
Newton said:
BarrenB: Yes I did read Eddies suggestion and the conclusion so I know WD40 is a no go. But let's keep the discussion to the mentioned product and leave Eddie out of this one. I can see that there is a big argument on here in respect of E.W which I don't want to get involved with.

N
Click to expand...

The unfortunate thing is we are all involved with his negativity.
 
KJ Cues said:
After giving this a little thought, I'm not sure that we need to explore any new products for sealing shafts. What we have works pretty darn well already. I try to keep things simple and to that end, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. That's not to say that any accepted method can't be improved upon but right now, this doesn't appear to be a problem area.

Currently, there must be 100s of ways to seal wood. I happen to prefer a lacquer based sanding sealer. It provides a hard protective seal-coat. I thin it down a little to give it better penetration properties and if necessary, two or more applications are readily accepted with light sanding btwn. coats. Micro-fibre cloth abrasives in various grits will give you a glass-like surface. Top it off with a light coating of carnuba car wax. The result will be a shaft that glides effortlessly.

After a shaft has been out in the world for a while and seen sufficient use it acquires an additional coating along the way called 'patina'. This is comprised of the natural oils of your hands. This is such a desirable surface coating that a lot of knowledgeable players will not have their shafts cleaned for fear of removing the patina.
Click to expand...

I do the same thing .
 
I have liked every sealer I have used over the last 40+ years and I am always looking for a better product, always. Ohtrewise there would be no progress.
 
Paul Dayton said:
I have liked every sealer I have used over the last 40+ years and I am always looking for a better product, always. Ohtrewise there would be no progress.
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I like the ones that smell good.:)
I hate thinner and denatured alcohol so I use mineral spirits as suggested by Jer Blackheart ( to thin out sealers ).
 
Paul Dayton said:
I have liked every sealer I have used over the last 40+ years and I am always looking for a better product, always. Ohtrewise there would be no progress.
Click to expand...


Paul, I respect that very much. After reading what I posted again I have made it sound like I'm stuck on what I use and do. I'm not....but my proving grounds must show it's worthy first before I would make any claims of it's existence associated with myself.
 
Thanks all for the feedback.

It was just something I was considering since I'm able to get this locally without any other hard work. My thought was to apply it as a - I guess sealer - after I have refinished a shaft. Just to get that special "touch" in stead of just using a leather strip for burnish.

This would of course be on cues with a lot of dirt to it, which I clean up and sand with 1200. After that I just burnish. So sealing is already done, but in stead of ordering cuewax all the way from the US with shipping added, I thought this might be a solution.

I can also get this stuff locally
http://www.chestnutproducts.co.uk/results.asp?cat=Waxes

I guess there might be something here then which I could use after cleaning? Any recommendations would be appreciated.

N
 
After cleaning a shaft, I use a water based laquer thinned with denatured alcohol and use a paper towel to apply it, putting it on pretty heavy but evenly. It dries in a few seconds, then I lightly hit it with 600, 1000, 1500, 2500 & then apply my slicking substance. I have tried lots of things for slicking & all work well, and from everything I have tried for sealing, the laquer seems to be the best so far. But hey, i'm still learning every day. Experiment & let us know what you find.
 
qbilder said:
After cleaning a shaft, I use a water based laquer thinned with denatured alcohol and use a paper towel to apply it, putting it on pretty heavy but evenly. It dries in a few seconds, then I lightly hit it with 600, 1000, 1500, 2500 & then apply my slicking substance. I have tried lots of things for slicking & all work well, and from everything I have tried for sealing, the laquer seems to be the best so far. But hey, i'm still learning every day. Experiment & let us know what you find.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm looking for that slick feeling after my finnish, where it sometimes could feel a little "raw-wood" when I'm done.
I have many shafts lying around, so I think I would get a bottle and see how it goes. I'll start on my own shaft :D

Thanks for the help.

N
 
Newton said:
I guess I'm looking for that slick feeling after my finnish, where it sometimes could feel a little "raw-wood" when I'm done.
I have many shafts lying around, so I think I would get a bottle and see how it goes. I'll start on my own shaft :D

Thanks for the help.

N
Click to expand...
Simplest would be just friction polish.
Two mixes.
One thinned out with denatured alcohol or mineral spirits ( from using you will come up with the right mix, 6 oz to 1 oz might be a good number to start with ).
Then one not thinned out for the final coat.
 
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