Power question,

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After watching the Larry Nevel videos and seeing him play he is like Mike Tyson with power, I have a friend(mike mitchell) who I would bet can hit the balls maybe harder or as hard as Larry and he is 6' and 205 now, before he was 165 pounds snd still hit them just as hard. One night in a pool room where the roof was about 18'-20' above the table he broke so hard the CB hit the 1 ball and jumped up and hit the roof hard., he hits the balls harder than anyone I have ever seen excepy Larry...maybe, Kim Davenport and I have known him for 22 years and were talking about how hard these guys break, Kim said if anyone can break harder than Mike it would be Larry but even Kim wasnt sure either who could hit them the hardest.

Larry looks like a strong guy-gym strong, compact bulldog body and his power is explained by that,,,maybe.:confused: But I have also seen small guys that arnt built like Larry with monster power. When I was on steroids and very big/strong my power stroke did increase alot, now that i'm in bad shape again the power is alot less, so yeah there is a relationshiop between strength and power for me, but look at Earl or Kim Davenport(and other normal or small built guys like David Howard) they have alot of power and arnt muscled up guys. Its like boxing some fighters heavy handed(punch real hard) and other fighters with the same weight,reach etc are pitty pat punchers. any ideas on why this is?

I have a couple idaes, one is timing for the snap(which I cant do, i'm arm power only) or the fast twitch muscle fibers(white I think), slow twitch muscle fibers(red I think). Some people have more of one than the other thus different strenght for the same size/mass, its their mucsle composition and density that makes them so powerful? :confused: .

I think the timing is the biggest factor, but when I was stronger I could hit the ball much harded but still nothing close to real hard hitting guys and I was much stronger than them and in better shape 4 abs, etc, not fat. But they still break the balls harder than I ever did.

what do you think makes these guys break or hit the balls so much harder than the rest of the players?, Mike I mentioned above is an A+ player but he had the power when he was a B player.



side note:
I will make a nother thread on some physical porportions of the champions, it dosent apply to all of them Boston Shorty, Miz, Cardone etc. But I have noticed a common trait among about half the champions. But for now we'll stick to the above concept of power
 
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I might be wrong but I'm going to say timing and accuracy (1ball).

Tony Roberto has one of the best breaks in town, he isn't a big guy - maybe 6' - 6'-2" and probably 180, not of muscular build. I study him breaking, the key is his timing and accuracy.

Personally, I don't have the timing down so if I ever try to throw my body weight (not a lot to throw) I break horrible -- it also has a lot to do with me not being able to hit the 1 square. If I plant myself down and just power into a break I hit 'em pretty hard and get the cue-ball to jump up and plant solid a lot of the time.
 
I think that timing, cue ball accuracy, and wrist action is what separates a very powerful break from an average break.
 
Fatboy said:
After watching the Larry Nevel videos and seeing him play he is like Mike Tyson with power, I have a friend(mike mitchell) who I would bet can hit the balls maybe harder or as hard as Larry and he is 6' and 205 now, before he was 165 pounds snd still hit them just as hard. One night in a pool room where the roof was about 18'-20' above the table he broke so hard the CB hit the 1 ball and jumped up and hit the roof hard., he hits the balls harder than anyone I have ever seen excepy Larry...maybe, Kim Davenport and I have known him for 22 years and were talking about how hard these guys break, Kim said if anyone can break harder than Mike it would be Larry but even Kim wasnt sure either who could hit them the hardest.

Larry looks like a strong guy-gym strong, compact bulldog body and his power is explained by that,,,maybe.:confused: But I have also seen small guys that arnt built like Larry with monster power. When I was on steroids and very big/strong my power stroke did increase alot, now that i'm in bad shape again the power is alot less, so yeah there is a relationshiop between strength and power for me, but look at Earl or Kim Davenport(and other normal or small built guys like David Howard) they have alot of power and arnt muscled up guys. Its like boxing some fighters heavy handed(punch real hard) and other fighters with the same weight,reach etc are pitty pat punchers. any ideas on why this is?

I have a couple idaes, one is timing for the snap(which I cant do, i'm arm power only) or the fast twitch muscle fibers(white I think), slow twitch muscle fibers(red I think). Some people have more of one than the other thus different strenght for the same size/mass, its their mucsle composition and density that makes them so powerful? :confused: .

I think the timing is the biggest factor, but when I was stronger I could hit the ball much harded but still nothing close to real hard hitting guys and I was much stronger than them and in better shape 4 abs, etc, not fat. But they still break the balls harder than I ever did.

what do you think makes these guys break or hit the balls so much harder than the rest of the players?, Mike I mentioned above is an A+ player but he had the power when he was a B player.



side note:
I will make a nother thread on some physical porportions of the champions, it dosent apply to all of them Boston Shorty, Miz, Cardone etc. But I have noticed a common trait among about half the champions. But for now we'll stick to the above concept of power
Click to expand...

Tony Ellin had the most powerful break I had ever seen. I think the power comes from the velocity of the stoke. Yes Tony was a big guy, but I've seen much smaller guys generate a very powerful break as well.
 
I'm not talking about the best break here just raw somewhat controlled power, i assumed that we all know that as the power inceases the accuracy goes down,

Archer is a big guy too and he cracks them hard as well,


so yeah all around SVB and Tony Ellin have the best of both, but I want this thread to be about power not who breaks the best.


POWER POWER POWER NOT ACCURACY FOR THIS THREAD PLEASE,

thanks gentalman,
 
I believe a lot of things are involved. A large athletic guy has a little advantage i think. Cue speed is important. But the timing of when the tip of the cue hits the QB and the alignment of all your body parts at that contact point is the key IMO. There are other factors too...but not needed as much as the others I mentioned. Johnnyt
 
Fatboy, you might have not been a member at the time, but one of our forum members did a very well regarded instructional video on power breaking. It was recorded on his cell phone video, so the quality was not great, but it spawned many pages of conversation on the topic.

I can't remember the guys name, but he was on the IPT. I'm sure someone else will remember the thread and video.
 
thebigdog said:
Tony Ellin had the most powerful break I had ever seen. I think the power comes from the velocity of the stoke. Yes Tony was a big guy, but I've seen much smaller guys generate a very powerful break as well.
Click to expand...

ok how do a player increase the velocity, being stiff from the gym slowes evertything down, or being muscle bound. I think there is a coorelation between slow/fast twitsh muscle fibers and the coordiantion to put your body into the shot to get the BIG power. I personally dont have the coordanation, or ability to spell, sorry. I have ran alot of 4 packs in my life but never 5 the break AWALYS stops the run for me, I did run 4 on a Diamond, one game was the 9 on the snap so it was really 3.
 
i can get a light cue going faster but i dont get much reaction from the balls,
 
iusedtoberich said:
Fatboy, you might have not been a member at the time, but one of our forum members did a very well regarded instructional video on power breaking. It was recorded on his cell phone video, so the quality was not great, but it spawned many pages of conversation on the topic.

I can't remember the guys name, but he was on the IPT. I'm sure someone else will remember the thread and video.
Click to expand...

I believe your talking about Colin from China. Johnnyt
 
Fatboy said:
ok how do a player increase the velocity, being stiff from the gym slowes evertything down, or being muscle bound. I think there is a coorelation between slow/fast twitsh muscle fibers and the coordiantion to put your body into the shot to get the BIG power. I personally dont have the coordanation, or ability to spell, sorry. I have ran alot of 4 packs in my life but never 5 the break AWALYS stops the run for me, I did run 4 on a Diamond, one game was the 9 on the snap so it was really 3.
Click to expand...
Hard to say, maybe a lighter stick, maybe need to modify your stroke or stance. I believe that some people are just faster than others. The best example I can think of is Barry Bonds, he had the quickest swing in baseball ever. So even though he wasn't the only one doing steroids, he hit the most home runs because of his bat speed. So I guess what I am trying to say is that genetics probobly does play into this.
 
Larry is not a big strong gym guy...He is surprisingly small. Maybe 5'7" or 5'8" and 160 or 170 lbs...I always thought he was a big guy seeing him on T.V. and videos. But I met him in Vegas this May and spent alot of time talking to him about pool and such and was surprised at his small stature....
He is one really nice guy who will tell you how to make any shot you are having trouble with...I left having alot of respect and like for him as a human being and as a pool player....The greatest and most powerful stroke I have ever seen...
Mike Mitchell also has a great stroke but nothing to compare with Larry. I play on Mitchell's BCA team and he does some amazing things....
Both have one of the hardest breaks I have ever seen. I don't really think size has anything to do with it..It's technique....Both are extremely talented....
 
there was a video on youtube that explained the muscles in the arm that helped you get more snap in your break. The more of your arm that worked together the more powerful break you had. had little to do with strength. I'll try to find it and post it. it helped me out.. I can shatter balls now and im a lil guy.

Here it is. this is good info: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xW1tsONEI_U

I believe it's how SVB breaks as well since he stands up right as he executes his break.
 
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NINEBALLART said:
Larry is not a big strong gym guy...He is surprisingly small. Maybe 5'7" or 5'8" and 160 or 170 lbs...I always thought he was a big guy seeing him on T.V. and videos. But I met him in Vegas this May and spent alot of time talking to him about pool and such and was surprised at his small stature....
He is one really nice guy who will tell you how to make any shot you are having trouble with...I left having alot of respect and like for him as a human being and as a pool player....The greatest and most powerful stroke I have ever seen...
Mike Mitchell also has a great stroke but nothing to compare with Larry. I play on Mitchell's BCA team and he does some amazing things....
Both have one of the hardest breaks I have ever seen. I don't really think size has anything to do with it..It's technique....Both are extremely talented....
Click to expand...

Larry is compact and typically with that shaped body people like that are naturally strong, which i firmly believe is why he hits them like he does,
 
Fatboy said:
After watching the Larry Nevel videos and seeing him play he is like Mike Tyson with power, I have a friend(mike mitchell) who I would bet can hit the balls maybe harder or as hard as Larry and he is 6' and 205 now, before he was 165 pounds snd still hit them just as hard. One night in a pool room where the roof was about 18'-20' above the table he broke so hard the CB hit the 1 ball and jumped up and hit the roof hard., he hits the balls harder than anyone I have ever seen excepy Larry...maybe, Kim Davenport and I have known him for 22 years and were talking about how hard these guys break, Kim said if anyone can break harder than Mike it would be Larry but even Kim wasnt sure either who could hit them the hardest.

Larry looks like a strong guy-gym strong, compact bulldog body and his power is explained by that,,,maybe.:confused: But I have also seen small guys that arnt built like Larry with monster power. When I was on steroids and very big/strong my power stroke did increase alot, now that i'm in bad shape again the power is alot less, so yeah there is a relationshiop between strength and power for me, but look at Earl or Kim Davenport(and other normal or small built guys like David Howard) they have alot of power and arnt muscled up guys. Its like boxing some fighters heavy handed(punch real hard) and other fighters with the same weight,reach etc are pitty pat punchers. any ideas on why this is?
I have a couple idaes, one is timing for the snap(which I cant do, i'm arm power only) or the fast twitch muscle fibers(white I think), slow twitch muscle fibers(red I think). Some people have more of one than the other thus different strenght for the same size/mass, its their mucsle composition and density that makes them so powerful? :confused: .

I think the timing is the biggest factor, but when I was stronger I could hit the ball much harded but still nothing close to real hard hitting guys and I was much stronger than them and in better shape 4 abs, etc, not fat. But they still break the balls harder than I ever did.

what do you think makes these guys break or hit the balls so much harder than the rest of the players?, Mike I mentioned above is an A+ player but he had the power when he was a B player.



side note:
I will make a nother thread on some physical porportions of the champions, it dosent apply to all of them Boston Shorty, Miz, Cardone etc. But I have noticed a common trait among about half the champions. But for now we'll stick to the above concept of power
Click to expand...
There maybe others who reason that it takes more strength to break, true but it's never the main concern. Eventually it boils down to your stroke, cue speed, ie how fast you deliver the cue forward, it's not about strength. You can grip loose and still get a monster break. From a breaker's angle, virtually the cueball floats towards the 1ball, that should be a decent rack-tearing break. Not 'dead strength' but more like flipping..cue speed.
 
Great topic Fatboy.I consider myself to have a fairly powerful break.I have studied the movements over the years and felt my bodies motions while improving my power and accuracy in breaking.
The break stroke is the most unique of all the strokes in pool.The reason for that is that the move itself is actually athletic in nature.You don't see someone's back heel coming off the ground while drawing the cue ball back for position in a normal shot.I know a guy that was a star football player in high school that can't play a lick of pool.However,he breaks like a monster!Reason is because he is an athlete and the break is an athletic move.
There are 2 things needed to generate power in a break.Denseness(or solidity) and speed.That simple.Those two things combined create power.But the thing is this,both are not achieved the same way.Denseness is simply achieved by a center hit on the cueball and a center hit on the one ball.Speed is a completely different animal and quite frankly the very thing that seperates monster breakers from the rest.Steve Mizerak had a great nine ball break in his day.However,he didn't have a power break.He got plenty of denseness into the break,but not a lot of speed.Hence,he was never known as a power player.So the combination of speed and denseness is what creates a power breaker like Larry Nevel,Jon Kucharo,etc..
To achieve speed in a break stroke,one has to know how to use his entire body correctly.If you watch a good breaker in slow motion,study his lower body.Shane VanBoeing makes this lower body move in an exaggerated way.You could watch him in regular speed and see it.Anyway,much like a golf swing,the body acts like a coil in generating speed at impact.The energy goes from the feet into the legs into the hips into the torso into the shoulders into the arms and into the hands to ultimately release outward into the cuetip.Nobody had a better followthrough than Johnny Archer.He was spread eagle over the whole table at the end of his followthrough.
So the power breakers have learned to combine denseness and speed without losing control.A gift indeed that most can't achieve IMO.I look at a power breaker much like I look at a long hitter in golf.There is just that edge they have that makes them do what they do.
 
Onepocket73 said:
Great topic Fatboy.I consider myself to have a fairly powerful break.I have studied the movements over the years and felt my bodies motions while improving my power and accuracy in breaking.
The break stroke is the most unique of all the strokes in pool.The reason for that is that the move itself is actually athletic in nature.You don't see someone's back heel coming off the ground while drawing the cue ball back for position in a normal shot.I know a guy that was a star football player in high school that can't play a lick of pool.However,he breaks like a monster!Reason is because he is an athlete and the break is an athletic move.
There are 2 things needed to generate power in a break.Denseness(or solidity) and speed.That simple.Those two things combined create power.But the thing is this,both are not achieved the same way.Denseness is simply achieved by a center hit on the cueball and a center hit on the one ball.Speed is a completely different animal and quite frankly the very thing that seperates monster breakers from the rest.Steve Mizerak had a great nine ball break in his day.However,he didn't have a power break.He got plenty of denseness into the break,but not a lot of speed.Hence,he was never known as a power player.So the combination of speed and denseness is what creates a power breaker like Larry Nevel,Jon Kucharo,etc..
To achieve speed in a break stroke,one has to know how to use his entire body correctly.If you watch a good breaker in slow motion,study his lower body.Shane VanBoeing makes this lower body move in an exaggerated way.You could watch him in regular speed and see it.Anyway,much like a golf swing,the body acts like a coil in generating speed at impact.The energy goes from the feet into the legs into the hips into the torso into the shoulders into the arms and into the hands to ultimately release outward into the cuetip.Nobody had a better followthrough than Johnny Archer.He was spread eagle over the whole table at the end of his followthrough.
So the power breakers have learned to combine denseness and speed without losing control.A gift indeed that most can't achieve IMO.I look at a power breaker much like I look at a long hitter in golf.There is just that edge they have that makes them do what they do.
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I agree...you said it a lot better than me. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I agree...you said it a lot better than me. Johnnyt
Click to expand...
Thanks.To give you an example of what I mean,I was at the golf shop the other day looking to get into a new driver.I was hitting balls into a net.The guy had a pretty advanced setup that measured all kinds of things while hitting.
To make a long story short,one swing my clubhead was going 101 mph and my total distance on the shot was 273 yards.The next swing I made was pretty hard.I layed into it good.Result.....clubhead was going 107 mph(6 mph faster)and the ball only traveled 238 yards! The difference was in the density of the hit.The first one I contacted very squarely.The faster one was contacted on the heel of the club.So I had gobs of speed,but no accuracy.Result was poor.Gotta have both:)
 
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