Practicing: Lesser or Greater Players

[JoeyA]

For most of us, we like practicing with better players. There's really not a whole lot of joy in pounding on someone that is helpless. Is that about right for most of you?

Ok, so then if you like practicing with better players, what about the lesser players? They like practicing with better players too.

I try to spend some of my time, practicing with lesser players; I guess it's just my way of giving back to the sport.

If the lesser player is just interested in socializing, I won't be playing with them very long. I can talk and socialize when I am not playing pool is the way I see it.

If the lesser player doesn't want to try their best, I am inclined to cut our practice time short and even eliminate it altogether.

If the lesser player wants to talk to other people even on a semi-regular basis, I am also inclined to cut our practice time.

If the lesser player wants to know something, I don't mind sharing what I know with them. If they know something I don't, I want to learn. If they just want to tell me how they do something instead of what I do and I know it's stubbornness, I can get quickly exasperated and will want to cut the practice time short as well.

With some people, I just don't want to practice with them for various reasons in addition to the things said above.

Sometimes, I think I am being too intolerant. Am I?

When I play a better player, I always watch what they are doing, keep my mouth shut most of the time unless spoken to, keep still while they are shooting and politely ask for clarification when I don't understand what they did and always say thanks and don't hesitate to buy a token drink for their generosity. If they are kind enough to compliment something I did, I don't get all puffed up but acknowledge their compliment and work even harder. I play as hard as I can to make them feel like they have at least a little pressure on them. I know they need that and I try to give them whatever I have to help them with their game.

Some top players like to supplement their expenses by playing for small money. They don't like giving the store away (giving too big of a spot) for cheap money so when we play for cheap money I don't whine about losing a cheap set, especially if they are willing to help me with a few astute observations about my game. There's nothing like having a better player critique your choices.
Is there anything else that some of you do when you play better players?

 

[VIProfessor]

Be respectful, pay attention and try like hell!

This is an excellent post, brother! Too many players do not take the proper approach when playing a better player and in the process rob themselves of valuable learning opportunities. There's only one thing, IMHO, that you left out in regards to sessions with players of a higher caliber.....try like hell to force them to reduce the spot over time.

BTW, I've been catching a number of the match vids on youtube, and thank you so much!!

edit: And no...I don't think you're being intolerant at all. If the lesser player isn't treating the session with an appropriate level of seriousness and a respectful desire to learn and improve, then they're wasting their time and yours.

 

[C.Milian]

I use and abuse the lesser players and talk as much shit to the better players as I can....I'm even talking shit when squatting to load the balls...I only do this if they are cool. I also have adhd so they know what they are getting into.

 

[Cdryden]

Are you to intolerant? NO, not at all. In fact if more people thought this way it would be nice. There is nothing wrong with knowing what you want and drawing a line when dealing with things you don't agree with.

The main reason I will play less experienced players is to keep from playing down to my opponent. I force myself to play equally tough against easier opponents. It might sound silly but it's good for me. That way i don't get into the habit of letting up on someone just because I think their not that good.

Also it's good for pool to help people that want to learn, so i dont mind showing what i know to someone who asks (respectfully) during a game.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Just about every player I know is better than me. :smile:

When asked by lessor skilled players I am about as tolerent as you are, maybe to the point of giving the player feedback about the actions you describe.

"If you want free lessons watch two players match up or go watch the monthly tournaments, take notes and practice more."

"If you want an explaination of how to make a shot that is different." I will usually take the time to explain.

I remember asking better players to play and was immediately challenged to a money game. Sometimes it was cheap sets and sometimes not. Not much encouragement from the experienced players.

 

[BasementDweller]

Joey-

You listed a lot of expectations that you have for these lesser players. The only thing that I would add to this is that I expect the better players to also adhere to this list. I know the better players tend to follow most of those rules just out of habit, but not all of them.

Are you too tolerant towards the better players?

 

[Maniac]

Is there anything else that some of you do when you play better players?

I try to replace my a$$ to it's original position after I've had it handed to me on a platter :thumbup:!!!

Seriously, if I'm playing a better player than me (funsies of course), the first thing I look for is how "user-friendly" he/she is. If they freely and willingly answer a question I may have as to why or how they did something to attain a certain reult (so that I may learn from it), I will practice with this person for as long as they wish. Hopefully they will be of the sort that relishes sharing knowledge. These people are the Crown Jewels of pool! If they are not of the sharing type, or I can see that they are too "into" themselves, I will beg off the practice session with some lame excuse like "I have to go feed and water my pet chiggers".

I feel that you, JoeyA, are a Crown Jewel in the sport of pocket billiards!!!

Maniac

 

[Cdryden]

[/B]

When I play a better player, I always watch what they are doing, keep my mouth shut most of the time unless spoken to, keep still while they are shooting and politely ask for clarification when I don't understand what they did and always say thanks and don't hesitate to buy a token drink for their generosity. If they are kind enough to compliment something I did, I don't get all puffed up but acknowledge their compliment and work even harder. I play as hard as I can to make them feel like they have at least a little pressure on them. I know they need that and I try to give them whatever I have to help them with their game.

Some top players like to supplement their expenses by playing for small money. They don't like giving the store away (giving too big of a spot) for cheap money so when we play for cheap money I don't whine about losing a cheap set, especially if they are willing to help me with a few astute observations about my game. There's nothing like having a better player critique your choices.
Is there anything else that some of you do when you play better players?

When I was in my late teens I used to play a older guy named John Dudley. He was quite a bit better than me and almost always won every game. We played at least once every week. I usually payed for table time for both of us. I saw it as paying my dues. He probably thought I was crazy for always covering the time but I looked at it as just paying for lessons.

He never let up on me and I earned the few games I won. I appreciated that. He seldom gave me any tidbits but taught me how to learn by observing. We could play for hours and never say much between us at all.

I have no idea where he is now. Last I heard he supposedly owes some people money from bad bets (he was always a better player than gambler) and he was around the Jefferson City area in Missouri. If you knows where he plays let me know. I would love to play him again!

 

[Island Drive]

Oh Yeah, btdt 100's of Times

For most of us, we like practicing with better players. There's really not a whole lot of joy in pounding on someone that is helpless. Is that about right for most of you?

YES to the ABOVE

Ok, so then if you like practicing with better players, what about the lesser players? They like practicing with better players too.

I try to spend some of my time, practicing with lesser players; I guess it's just my way of giving back to the sport.

RIGHT...............

If the lesser player is just interested in socializing, I won't be playing with them very long. I can talk and socialize when I am not playing pool is the way I see it.
BINGO....

If the lesser player doesn't want to try their best, I am inclined to cut our practice time short and even eliminate it altogether.
TYPICAL

If the lesser player wants to talk to other people even on a semi-regular basis, I am also inclined to cut our practice time.
AGREED

If the lesser player wants to know something, I don't mind sharing what I know with them. If they know something I don't, I want to learn. If they just want to tell me how they do something instead of what I do and I know it's stubbornness, I can get quickly exasperated and will want to cut the practice time short as well.
NOT INTO TEACHING UNLESS I GET PAID

With some people, I just don't want to practice with them for various reasons in addition to the things said above.

Sometimes, I think I am being too intolerant. Am I?


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPEEEEEEEEEE

When I play a better player, I always watch what they are doing, keep my mouth shut most of the time unless spoken to, keep still while they are shooting and politely ask for clarification when I don't understand what they did and always say thanks and don't hesitate to buy a token drink for their generosity. If they are kind enough to compliment something I did, I don't get all puffed up but acknowledge their compliment and work even harder. I play as hard as I can to make them feel like they have at least a little pressure on them. I know they need that and I try to give them whatever I have to help them with their game.

Some top players like to supplement their expenses by playing for small money. They don't like giving the store away (giving too big of a spot) for cheap money so when we play for cheap money I don't whine about losing a cheap set, especially if they are willing to help me with a few astute observations about my game. There's nothing like having a better player critique your choices.
Is there anything else that some of you do when you play better players?

SOME COMMENTS IN CAPS ABOVE....

I prefer to play better players, when I can find em....I hate ''Rack-tice'' en' when prack-ticin'. This aspect allows me to play better, allot quicker.

On an exact similar note, I've been practicing with a lesser player, and this player plays hard and takes their licks BUT after about 3 mths, NOW it's changed as this person is playing a ''littLe'' bit better, an example during 14.1, this person commented negatively, and differently on ten shots in one rack, I bit my tongue as this is ''out a line'', but another item came to head recently and I ''voiced up''. During my inning at the table with this person seated at the head of table, I got out of line on the bottom rail, this person had to get up walk too my shot line........so I being annoyed, got out of their way so they could ''see my shot'' and still they didn't GET THE PICTURE, so I spoke up, they apologized, and meant it, so next time before we even start, I'll say something about all the audibles being said during their expectations of being PERFECT on every shape or shot, OR, I'm done. This person only is getting close to me in a final game scores of ANY type, because I patronize the moment and never concentrate 100% on any of my shots anymore, and thats NOT why I'm there.

 

[jtompilot]

Hey Joey, this lesser player needs some practice:smile:

See you for Christmas.

 

[JoeyA]

Hey Joey, this lesser player needs some practice:smile:

See you for Christmas.

I heard about you fella. UR RECENT visit to our fair city is da talk of da town. People are TALKING.

I'll save a Christmas present for you.:smile:

 

[JoeyA]

This is an excellent post, brother! Too many players do not take the proper approach when playing a better player and in the process rob themselves of valuable learning opportunities. There's only one thing, IMHO, that you left out in regards to sessions with players of a higher caliber.....try like hell to force them to reduce the spot over time.

BTW, I've been catching a number of the match vids on youtube, and thank you so much!!

edit: And no...I don't think you're being intolerant at all. If the lesser player isn't treating the session with an appropriate level of seriousness and a respectful desire to learn and improve, then they're wasting their time and yours.

Glad you like the match vids on youtube. They are growing. I like the idea of reducing the spot over time, especially if you win more often than not.

I use and abuse the lesser players and talk as much shit to the better players as I can....I'm even talking shit when squatting to load the balls...I only do this if they are cool. I also have adhd so they know what they are getting into.

We wouldn't play very much but we sure could talk a lot when sitting at the bar, socializing. :smile:

Are you to intolerant? NO, not at all. In fact if more people thought this way it would be nice. There is nothing wrong with knowing what you want and drawing a line when dealing with things you don't agree with.

The main reason I will play less experienced players is to keep from playing down to my opponent. I force myself to play equally tough against easier opponents. It might sound silly but it's good for me. That way i don't get into the habit of letting up on someone just because I think their not that good.

Also it's good for pool to help people that want to learn, so i dont mind showing what i know to someone who asks (respectfully) during a game.

I too force myself to play tough against easier opponents but there's nothing like getting spanked by a better player. (Masochistic Joe)

Just about every player I know is better than me. :smile:

When asked by lessor skilled players I am about as tolerent as you are, maybe to the point of giving the player feedback about the actions you describe.

"If you want free lessons watch two players match up or go watch the monthly tournaments, take notes and practice more."

"If you want an explaination of how to make a shot that is different." I will usually take the time to explain.

I remember asking better players to play and was immediately challenged to a money game. Sometimes it was cheap sets and sometimes not. Not much encouragement from the experienced players.

Too bad about the little encouragment from more experienced players. It's not that way everywhere.

Joey-

You listed a lot of expectations that you have for these lesser players. The only thing that I would add to this is that I expect the better players to also adhere to this list. I know the better players tend to follow most of those rules just out of habit, but not all of them.

Are you too tolerant towards the better players?

I probably am more tolerant of poor behavior from better players. :embarrassed2: But I try to improve their behavior.

I try to replace my a$$ to it's original position after I've had it handed to me on a platter :thumbup:!!!

Seriously, if I'm playing a better player than me (funsies of course), the first thing I look for is how "user-friendly" he/she is. If they freely and willingly answer a question I may have as to why or how they did something to attain a certain reult (so that I may learn from it), I will practice with this person for as long as they wish. Hopefully they will be of the sort that relishes sharing knowledge. These people are the Crown Jewels of pool! If they are not of the sharing type, or I can see that they are too "into" themselves, I will beg off the practice session with some lame excuse like "I have to go feed and water my pet chiggers".

I feel that you, JoeyA, are a Crown Jewel in the sport of pocket billiards!!!

Maniac

Thanks Maniac! :smile:

When I was in my late teens I used to play a older guy named John Dudley. He was quite a bit better than me and almost always won every game. We played at least once every week. I usually payed for table time for both of us. I saw it as paying my dues. He probably thought I was crazy for always covering the time but I looked at it as just paying for lessons.

He never let up on me and I earned the few games I won. I appreciated that. He seldom gave me any tidbits but taught me how to learn by observing. We could play for hours and never say much between us at all.

I have no idea where he is now. Last I heard he supposedly owes some people money from bad bets (he was always a better player than gambler) and he was around the Jefferson City area in Missouri. If you knows where he plays let me know. I would love to play him again!

So you've gotten better and now want to gamble with him or just play for funsies?

SOME COMMENTS IN CAPS ABOVE....

I prefer to play better players, when I can find em....I hate ''Rack-tice'' en' when prack-ticin'. This aspect allows me to play better, allot quicker.

On an exact similar note, I've been practicing with a lesser player, and this player plays hard and takes their licks BUT after about 3 mths, NOW it's changed as this person is playing a ''littLe'' bit better, an example during 14.1, this person commented negatively, and differently on ten shots in one rack, I bit my tongue as this is ''out a line'', but another item came to head recently and I ''voiced up''. During my inning at the table with this person seated at the head of table, I got out of line on the bottom rail, this person had to get up walk too my shot line........so I being annoyed, got out of their way so they could ''see my shot'' and still they didn't GET THE PICTURE, so I spoke up, they apologized, and meant it, so next time before we even start, I'll say something about all the audibles being said during their expectations of being PERFECT on every shape or shot, OR, I'm done. This person only is getting close to me in a final game scores of ANY type, because I patronize the moment and never concentrate 100% on any of my shots anymore, and thats NOT why I'm there.

I don't want to hear ANY crap from lesser players or better players while I am at the table, especially stupid crap like that, just designed to take your out of your game. I won't play with better players if they do that.

 

[randyg]

JOEYA:

Are you talking about Playing or Practicing?
randyg

 

[Cdryden]

So you've gotten better and now want to gamble with him or just play for funsies?


.

Either! I would like to match up against him for a cheap set but even getting the chance to play for fun and catch up would be fine too. I hear he still plays. Surely someone on here knows him.

 

[MitchAlsup]

In my opinion, neither playing with a better player nor playing with a lesser player constitutes practice. It is simply playing with a better or lesser player.

Practice is a situation where if you miss a shot, you can restore the table and try it again and again and again.
Practice is a situation where you can try different amounts and directions of english to figure out which one works bets in the given situation.
Practice is a situation where you can set up the table to have one of the patterns that you can't seem to crack.

Practice has little to do with play and a lot to do with getting ready to play.

In my opinion.

 

[JoeyA]

JOEYA:

Are you talking about Playing or Practicing?
randyg

Some people like to call it Practicing and some call it what is is most of the time, playing but i guess I meant both.

 

[inside_english]

For most of us, we like practicing with better players. There's really not a whole lot of joy in pounding on someone that is helpless. Is that about right for most of you?

Ok, so then if you like practicing with better players, what about the lesser players? They like practicing with better players too.

I try to spend some of my time, practicing with lesser players; I guess it's just my way of giving back to the sport.

If the lesser player is just interested in socializing, I won't be playing with them very long. I can talk and socialize when I am not playing pool is the way I see it.

If the lesser player doesn't want to try their best, I am inclined to cut our practice time short and even eliminate it altogether.

If the lesser player wants to talk to other people even on a semi-regular basis, I am also inclined to cut our practice time.

If the lesser player wants to know something, I don't mind sharing what I know with them. If they know something I don't, I want to learn. If they just want to tell me how they do something instead of what I do and I know it's stubbornness, I can get quickly exasperated and will want to cut the practice time short as well.

With some people, I just don't want to practice with them for various reasons in addition to the things said above.

Sometimes, I think I am being too intolerant. Am I?

When I play a better player, I always watch what they are doing, keep my mouth shut most of the time unless spoken to, keep still while they are shooting and politely ask for clarification when I don't understand what they did and always say thanks and don't hesitate to buy a token drink for their generosity. If they are kind enough to compliment something I did, I don't get all puffed up but acknowledge their compliment and work even harder. I play as hard as I can to make them feel like they have at least a little pressure on them. I know they need that and I try to give them whatever I have to help them with their game.

Some top players like to supplement their expenses by playing for small money. They don't like giving the store away (giving too big of a spot) for cheap money so when we play for cheap money I don't whine about losing a cheap set, especially if they are willing to help me with a few astute observations about my game. There's nothing like having a better player critique your choices.
Is there anything else that some of you do when you play better players?

JoeyA...this may terrify you...but we have a lot in common!

I heard a long time ago from a pro (it was during commentary of an old match) that you should ALWAYS learn something regardless of the opponent's skill level.

Haven't we all seen a beginner make the CB or OB react in ways we have not thought about, and secretly made a mental note to recreate that shot?

In addition, we should ALWAYS try our best, regardless of the circumstances, but that is VERY difficult, even for the most disciplined.

I too have a lot of "requirements" of the people I choose to play with. So no, I don't think you're intolerant. You have simply honed your tastes and know what you like, and what you choose to endure.

On the other hand, there are many players that are better than I, but I choose not to play them because I don't like them...for various reasons. They probably don't like me too...but I really don't care.

Truth be told, sometimes I really enjoy playing beginners because I set a personal goal to beat them badly at every game. Then when I hear them say "I can't take any more." I feel satisfied. It may be cruel, but it is like a benchmark I set for myself where I think that this person should not win one single game against me. For some of these people, depending on their attitudes, I have been known to pick up their table time. Why? Because I enjoyed myself, and we had some fun along the way. (Of course, these instances are rare).

Good luck.

 

[JoeyA]

JoeyA...this may terrify you...but we have a lot in common!

I heard a long time ago from a pro (it was during commentary of an old match) that you should ALWAYS learn something regardless of the opponent's skill level.

Haven't we all seen a beginner make the CB or OB react in ways we have not thought about, and secretly made a mental note to try to recreate that shot?

In addition, we should ALWAYS try our best, regardless of the circumstances, but that is VERY difficult to to, even for the most disciplined.

I too, have a lot of "requirements" of the people I choose to play with.
So no, I don't think you're intolerant. You have simply honed your tastes and know what you like, and what you chooseto endure.

On the other hand, there are many players that are better than I, but I choose not to play them because I don't like them...for various reasons.

Good luck!

I play in partner one pocket games with some people who play better than I do and who I will not gamble with one on one regardless of the spot. Most of the time partner's one pocket is an inexpensive game to play and the antics don't go down quite the same way, since most of the time, we pick pills for who gets to be partners.

Like I said, I don't have any hating in me but I'm not going to waste my time playing with someone who can't accept my rules. Glad that most or all think I'm not being too intolerant. You know, the older you get the more set in your ways you become. I don't want to become a bitter old batard, hating on everything and everyone around me. :grin:

 

[inside_english]

"I don't want to become a bitter old ba$tard, hating on everything and everyone around me"

That's OK...I'll do it for you...

 

[Cameron Smith]

I like your rules regarding matching up with better/weaker players. I'm a similar way, I have so little time to devote to practice that I don't want to waste of any of it on someone who is just going muck about.

Since I became certified as a high school teacher I'm reluctant to gamble so there is really no benefit for me playing someone who isn't willing to play a serious game of pool.