I am at a point in my game where I generally pocket open balls, but still struggle with position and speed control. It can be very frustrating to practice also. I was wondering how you guys practice to improve these things. I know improvement in these areas is what I need to take my game to the next level.
Practicing position play
- Thread starter mantis99
- Start date
One thing that makes a huge difference is hitting the object ball where you try to. Hitting one side of the pocket or the other can leave you on the totally opposite side of the table. I find I get better position on tables with tight pockets than I do with loose pocket tables because I get sloppy on my pocketing.
First thing to do is get really good at using only the vertical center of the cueball. You can do almost every shot using only top and bottom with no english. The only time you need english is when you need to change the angle off the rail or need to throw a ball. So line up some straight in shots and try to do a perfect stop shot, roll one diamond forward, two diamonds forward... Do the same thing with draw. Do these till you can do them every time. The tip placement will change depending on how far away the object ball is. Try to find a good medium firm speed stroke and shot every shot the same speed.
There are also a bunch of rail systems and clock systems to help you hit certain spots on the rails. Point in space is a good one, it can be applied to almost any three railer with any english once you know your reference points.
First thing to do is get really good at using only the vertical center of the cueball. You can do almost every shot using only top and bottom with no english. The only time you need english is when you need to change the angle off the rail or need to throw a ball. So line up some straight in shots and try to do a perfect stop shot, roll one diamond forward, two diamonds forward... Do the same thing with draw. Do these till you can do them every time. The tip placement will change depending on how far away the object ball is. Try to find a good medium firm speed stroke and shot every shot the same speed.
There are also a bunch of rail systems and clock systems to help you hit certain spots on the rails. Point in space is a good one, it can be applied to almost any three railer with any english once you know your reference points.
So you just change how far away from the center of the ball instead of you stroke speed to change the amount of draw or follow? I know Jim Rempe advocates this, but others do not. What is the gereral consensus, and what are some other ideas? for practicing position? Thanks for the postmnShooter.
Also, you can take 3 balls (doesnt matter which ones) and spread them out on the table in no particular order. You have cueball in hand on the first ball, to run them out. Think about angles and rails. Meaning, using an angle off of the first ball to make the cueball hit a rail so that it ends up with an angle on the second ball that will allow you to get to the third ball. Position play IS about angles and rails. It makes it much easier to move the cueball around the table, than just using a straight in full ball hit and draw or follow. Angled cut shots are the key.
Chuck
Chuck
You could buy a copy of Ray Martin's book "99 Critical Shots" & learn those pattern shots.
You can then concentrate on each shot & learn to stop the cue ball at any number of locations, along the cue balls' path, after pocketing the object ball.
This kind of practice might help you spot some weak areas.
Good Luck...
You can then concentrate on each shot & learn to stop the cue ball at any number of locations, along the cue balls' path, after pocketing the object ball.
This kind of practice might help you spot some weak areas.
Good Luck...
I have been having the same problems but I have been playing a little game that has helped SOOOOOOO much.
take all 15 balls. spread them out on the table so that they are at least 6" away from each other and 6" away from the rail. take ball in hand and try to run them all without touching a rail or touching any other ball. This is a good drill for not only pocketing balls, but working on cueball speed and control. I just started doing this about two weeks ago and now I can run them 1st try so now Im going to do the drill where I HAVE to hit a rail but cannot touch any other ball.
take all 15 balls. spread them out on the table so that they are at least 6" away from each other and 6" away from the rail. take ball in hand and try to run them all without touching a rail or touching any other ball. This is a good drill for not only pocketing balls, but working on cueball speed and control. I just started doing this about two weeks ago and now I can run them 1st try so now Im going to do the drill where I HAVE to hit a rail but cannot touch any other ball.
There are some simple drills that can improve speed control immensely.
There is a whole chapter of speed control drills in Glenn Bonds video/book combo. I think it's called "bowtie, zig-zag, and other drills", or something close to that. Those speed drills have helped my 1-hole game immensely. Heres a couple of them-
1 - Line up 8-10 balls on the head string. Shoot the first ball as softly as possible toward the bottom rail (should move less than an inch). Shoot the next ball just past the first, and the third just past the second, and so on. The goal is to have the last ball not reach the bottom rail.
As a variation, set up the same thing, only the first ball should just hit the bottom rail, and the next should bounce off the bottom rail just past the first, and so on, with the last ball being like a lag shot.
Variation #2 is doing the same drills but using the cue ball and taking BIH for each shot.
2- Place the cue ball in the jaws of the side pocket. Try to make the cue ball cross side using as many hits as possible.
For a variation, place an object ball in front of the cue ball a few inches away, and try to make the object ball cross side with as many strikes as possible.
These may seem like easy drills at first, but they are harder than they appear, and will give you a good idea of where your speed control really is. If you can get even semi-proficient at these drills, your speed contron will be much better than most.
There is a whole chapter of speed control drills in Glenn Bonds video/book combo. I think it's called "bowtie, zig-zag, and other drills", or something close to that. Those speed drills have helped my 1-hole game immensely. Heres a couple of them-
1 - Line up 8-10 balls on the head string. Shoot the first ball as softly as possible toward the bottom rail (should move less than an inch). Shoot the next ball just past the first, and the third just past the second, and so on. The goal is to have the last ball not reach the bottom rail.
As a variation, set up the same thing, only the first ball should just hit the bottom rail, and the next should bounce off the bottom rail just past the first, and so on, with the last ball being like a lag shot.
Variation #2 is doing the same drills but using the cue ball and taking BIH for each shot.
2- Place the cue ball in the jaws of the side pocket. Try to make the cue ball cross side using as many hits as possible.
For a variation, place an object ball in front of the cue ball a few inches away, and try to make the object ball cross side with as many strikes as possible.
These may seem like easy drills at first, but they are harder than they appear, and will give you a good idea of where your speed control really is. If you can get even semi-proficient at these drills, your speed contron will be much better than most.
I'm teaching a beginner friend position play. I've noticed one big difference between me and him.
I can aim the cue ball *very* accurately to hit an *exact* spot on the object ball even 1/8 inch difference this way or that way.
My friend can't do this. If he is hitting an object ball which is "hanging" in the pocket, the cue ball can hit the object ball anywhere within a 1 inch area. So each time he sets up the same shot - the cue ball in the same starting place, object ball hanging in the pocket, the cue ball will come back off the shot in a different direction. Maybe to the left, maybe to the right, maybe follow the object ball into the pocket. No telling where the cue ball will go after the shot!
I can hit the object ball in a specific spot, and by doing this, I know that the cue ball will come off the shot in a certain direction. So I can always hit the same shot and always get the cue ball to come off the shot to the left. Or to the right.
I'm learning that being this accurate is a big help to leaving position with many of my shots.
So I can have what appears to be a straight in shot. Well I can "cheat the pocket". I can shoot the object ball to the left side of the pocket or to the right side of the pocket. And this will change where the cue ball goes after the shot.
The way I got to be so accurate is I have quadruple shimmed pockets on my table at home. The corner pockets are 3 3/4" and the side pockets are 3 7/8". Then just playing on this table for several years. It was impossible for me to play on this table at first! I had to learn how to aim accurately, not just send the object ball in the direction of the pocket and let it wobble in.
So being able to hit the object ball in an exact spot is a big help.
Then get Dr. Dave's DVD at the following link. This will teach you the 30 and 90 degree rules as well and other basic stuff. With every shot you have many options as to where you can get the cue ball to go after the shot. Dr. Dave teaches you what your options are. Don't get the DVD and watch it like a movie. Watch a shot, then hit pause and go practice that shot. Then watch next shot/practice. This stuff is worth its weight in gold! Get his DVD here...
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/cd_dvd/dvd_description.html
For speed control, break a rack of balls and shoot each ball so it rolls up to the pocket and stops just before dropping into the pocket. With this practice, you learn that with a full on hit, the object ball will take all of the speed of the cue ball and the cue ball will "die". With a thin cut shot, the object ball will take very little speed from the cue ball and the cue ball will go flying off into space. So need more speed on thin cuts to get object ball to pocket and very little speed with a full on hit. AND cue ball tends to die with full on hit, cue ball retains most of its speed with a thin cut. Knowing exactly how hard to hit the shot to pocket the ball (depending on full hit, 3/4 hit, 1/2 hit, etc.) can come in very handy sometimes.
Also practice shooting just the cue ball 1/2 diamond distance, 1 diamond, 2 diamonds, 3, 4, etc. Shoot to far rail and stop. To far rail and back 1 diamond, then back 2, 3, etc. All the way up to 3 rails.
After practicing this stuff for about a year, you will see a shot, know how hard you need to shoot to pocket the ball, will know the general direction the cue ball will go after the shot with follow or stun, and will be able to use follow, stop (stun), or draw to get the cue ball to go where you want after the shot. Then you can slowly learn how much speed to apply to make the shot and get the cue ball to roll as far as you want. (I think this part can take a lifetime!)
I can aim the cue ball *very* accurately to hit an *exact* spot on the object ball even 1/8 inch difference this way or that way.
My friend can't do this. If he is hitting an object ball which is "hanging" in the pocket, the cue ball can hit the object ball anywhere within a 1 inch area. So each time he sets up the same shot - the cue ball in the same starting place, object ball hanging in the pocket, the cue ball will come back off the shot in a different direction. Maybe to the left, maybe to the right, maybe follow the object ball into the pocket. No telling where the cue ball will go after the shot!
I can hit the object ball in a specific spot, and by doing this, I know that the cue ball will come off the shot in a certain direction. So I can always hit the same shot and always get the cue ball to come off the shot to the left. Or to the right.
I'm learning that being this accurate is a big help to leaving position with many of my shots.
So I can have what appears to be a straight in shot. Well I can "cheat the pocket". I can shoot the object ball to the left side of the pocket or to the right side of the pocket. And this will change where the cue ball goes after the shot.
The way I got to be so accurate is I have quadruple shimmed pockets on my table at home. The corner pockets are 3 3/4" and the side pockets are 3 7/8". Then just playing on this table for several years. It was impossible for me to play on this table at first! I had to learn how to aim accurately, not just send the object ball in the direction of the pocket and let it wobble in.
So being able to hit the object ball in an exact spot is a big help.
Then get Dr. Dave's DVD at the following link. This will teach you the 30 and 90 degree rules as well and other basic stuff. With every shot you have many options as to where you can get the cue ball to go after the shot. Dr. Dave teaches you what your options are. Don't get the DVD and watch it like a movie. Watch a shot, then hit pause and go practice that shot. Then watch next shot/practice. This stuff is worth its weight in gold! Get his DVD here...
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/cd_dvd/dvd_description.html
For speed control, break a rack of balls and shoot each ball so it rolls up to the pocket and stops just before dropping into the pocket. With this practice, you learn that with a full on hit, the object ball will take all of the speed of the cue ball and the cue ball will "die". With a thin cut shot, the object ball will take very little speed from the cue ball and the cue ball will go flying off into space. So need more speed on thin cuts to get object ball to pocket and very little speed with a full on hit. AND cue ball tends to die with full on hit, cue ball retains most of its speed with a thin cut. Knowing exactly how hard to hit the shot to pocket the ball (depending on full hit, 3/4 hit, 1/2 hit, etc.) can come in very handy sometimes.
Also practice shooting just the cue ball 1/2 diamond distance, 1 diamond, 2 diamonds, 3, 4, etc. Shoot to far rail and stop. To far rail and back 1 diamond, then back 2, 3, etc. All the way up to 3 rails.
After practicing this stuff for about a year, you will see a shot, know how hard you need to shoot to pocket the ball, will know the general direction the cue ball will go after the shot with follow or stun, and will be able to use follow, stop (stun), or draw to get the cue ball to go where you want after the shot. Then you can slowly learn how much speed to apply to make the shot and get the cue ball to roll as far as you want. (I think this part can take a lifetime!)
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If you want to get a video for this, get Robert Byrne's Power Pool Workout. Lots and lots of drills.mantis99 said:
As for your other question about always using the same distance off-center for your spin shots, that is far too restrictive. Example: put the object on the head string two balls off the side rail. Put the cue ball a diamond away (towards the side pocket) and the same distance off the cushion. Play the shot and freeze the cue ball to the other side cushion at each diamond in turn. You cannot do this with a constant tip offset.
There are lots of position drills on-line including at the website below.
Try this.
You need to be consistent at speed control and position play to reach the next level. Set up the same shot and shoot it with different speeds with and without english. Use chalk to mark the cloth with an "X" so that the setup is repeatable. As for speed you need to be able to gauge what is fast medium and slow. For me slow is pushing the cue ball from one side of the table to the other, on the short side. Medium speed is like lagging for the break. Fast speed is also like lagging, but going an extra rail. I know this can be boring, so you should only do this as long as your attention span will allow. Once you have decided that you've had enough practice, reward yourself by playing.mantis99 said:
mantis99 said:
you know whats odd is i can get position or at least know what i have to do to get the cb there but im not proficient at pocketing balls yet.
