Predator cue opinions

N

NZBoy

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Hello All

This is my first post so you will have to excuse me if i have posted in the wrong section, possibly should have posted in the cues wanted section.

My question concerns predator cues. I live in New Zealand and have been playing for about 1 1/2 years with a cheap cue and i now want to move up to a better playing cue. The problem is that in New Zealand cue ranges are very limited and the ablity to play with a wide range of cues before purchasing is quite hard.

I have played with a friends predator cue and am looking to purchase one of the internet, but i was wondering what people thought about them and what might the other options for cues be in the about US$500 dollar mark. I realise each cue is different and you cannot really assess them without playing with them, but considering location this is fairly difficult so any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
NZboy,
Just a note from an unabashed Predator fan. I love the low deflection Predator. As long as you have not been playing for a long time with a high deflection cue, you will probably be able to adapt to it fairly quickly (old, ingrained habits are harder to break). The one issue that you should consider, given your location, is straightness of the shaft. Through personal experience I will tell you that Predator shafts occasionally arrive in the mail with a warp (probably from shipping conditions, since the shafts were straight when I sent them to Predator, and they say they were straight when they sent them back to me). I believe this is fairly uncommon, but since your cue will have to travel a great distance, you should make sure that you have an understanding with the retailer that you will definitely be able to exchange any shafts that arrive less than perfect. Good luck with your purchase, I'm sure you will have a great time with it.
 
Williebetmore said:
NZboy,
Just a note from an unabashed Predator fan. I love the low deflection Predator. As long as you have not been playing for a long time with a high deflection cue, you will probably be able to adapt to it fairly quickly (old, ingrained habits are harder to break). Good luck with your purchase, I'm sure you will have a great time with it.
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NZboy,
Just a note from an unabashed Predator anti-fan. I despise the low deflection Predator. As long as you have not been playing for a long time with one, you will probably be able to adapt to a well made regular cue fairly quickly (old, ingrained habits are harder to break). Good luck with your purchase, I'm sure you're gonna need it if you buy one.
(This should start the Predator train rolling pretty good...there hasn't been a Preadator convention in town for quite a while now...chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga...toot tooot....Soul Train, I mean Predator Train....chuga chuga chuga chuga)
 
Well thankyou for the replies, i think i am fairly set on a predator now. My final question on this matter is can anybody recommend a good internet store for my requirements (ie, Long travel distance, and Predator cues) or should i just order one straight from Predator. Though i have noticed that going straight through predator is a bit more expensive.

Thanks again

P.S. Sorry if i started the train.... chug chug...
 
As to purchasing online/mail-order, I prefer SEYBERT'S and MUELLER'S. Just do a GOOGLE search to locate them.
 
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NZBoy said:
Well thankyou for the replies, i think i am fairly set on a predator now. My final question on this matter is can anybody recommend a good internet store for my requirements (ie, Long travel distance, and Predator cues) or should i just order one straight from Predator. Though i have noticed that going straight through predator is a bit more expensive.

Thanks again

P.S. Sorry if i started the train.... chug chug...
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Before the train goes pulling out of the station, you better check international mailing rates and insurance to NZ. It just might put the idea back in the caboose. Whooooeeee.....
 
What I would suggest doing is locating a good cue, maybe used, such as a Schon or a Joss - if you can find one locally, the better, then just buying a Predator shaft for it. That way if you don't like the Predator shaft, you can probably just sell it but will still have a conventional cue to play with.

Predator shafts are definitely different. I was not a Predator fan until I got my cue which came with one fitted by a custom maker. They are extremely accurate but have a funny feel to them. They are 1/2 ounce lighter than most standard shafts of the same dimensions, and all of this weight it removed from the tip area.

Experiment with tips too. I found that a softer tip works better on a Predator - to me it improved the feel and made a big difference in the soft spin shots, which is what I believe is the Predator's biggest weakness. I think thay are a stiff shaft made for the power game. Mine is perfectly set up now with an Elkmaster that I hardened up a little. I was not at all happy with the Moori Medium on a Predator. On soft english shots it felt like the tip was bouncing off the cueball. The Elkmaster feels like it's digging into the cueball.

I think I have the best of both worlds. Occasionally I'll run across a standard shaft that is as accurate as a Predator, but not very often.

Chris
 
A tip can either make or break a cue. On a very early Ernie Martinez 6-pointer cue that I own, the Triangle tip is the one of choice; whereas the Le Pro didn't perform well.

On my custom Phillippi, I really liked how the Le Pro worked for me. Since then I've switched to Talisman and have won a couple of tournaments with it.
 
Have patience with it I've had mine for about 2 years now it probably took half of that to get completly comfortable with it, IMO many of the nay-sayers don't realise the drastic change and can't/won't adapt I have a couple of friends who bought one and didn't like it a couple of days later. I went to a softer tip also I found the hard tips tend to bouce off the cue ball when using siding.
 
I am in Australia and the cue situation here for 9-ball cues is the same. Predator seems to have a lock on this area just due to the simple fact there is nothing else out there. I brought my custom cue here and all the predator owners who hit with it turned a little green due to the fact it hits the ball about 10 times better then a predator.

The problem with Predator cues other then the fact you "CAN'T" make some shots with one because of their lack of deflection is they also feel like shit compared to a cue with a truely good hitting cue. Southwest cues get so much talk about how sweet they hit the ball on this message board, well the predator is the complete opposite in feel, they feel like crap. I have even had tons of predator owners say the same, they know their cues feel like shit but they just ignore it for the lower amount of deflection. These are all "technical" players compared to the "feel" players. If you are the type of player that uses banking systems, routines, and analize your stroke and everything then the predator will probably be your cue. On the other hand if you are more of a feel player whoes game just flows and you kind of get into a zone where the game is on auto pilot as you move around the table the predator is not your kind of cue.

Ask yourself, do you play with a rigid style like Steve Davis, or are you more smooth and play with feel like a Bustamente? The Davis types love Predator cues normally, the Bustamente type players usually hate them.

With no other cue types in your area to learn from you must ask yourself what kind of player you are. You have not had the chance to try other types of cues so you dont know what you are missing between a predator and a cue that has a butter soft feel to it.
 
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Celtic said:
With no other cue types in your area to learn from you must ask yourself what kind of player you are. .
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Celtic,
Or if you are a new player perhaps you must ask yourself what kind of player you WANT TO BE.

I don't know enough about pool to tell whether your theory is accurate, but it is kind of scary to me. I started playing seriously 2 1/2 years ago, started with a very nice, top-shelf, very expensive Southwest (a gift). A friend let me try his sneaky Pete Predator and I loved it (hated the Southwest hit in comparison), eventually bought it for $200, and then after another year sold the Southwest. All of this occurred before I ever participated in these forums, and I was completely unaware of the deflection issue and of the differences in those cues. In support of your theory I was a very technical/mechanical player at the time, though I think I am developing an excellent feel, especially with inside English.
 
I'm an all feel player and I play with Predator cues. In fact, I would even venture to say that a Predator shaft lends itself to non-system players more than conventional shafts. I say this because it doesn't work with many of the conventional aiming systems because of its decreased deflection. Therefore, you can't use any of the aiming systems out there and either have to develop your own system or play by feel.

I also hear many people here say that you can't use backhand english with Predators. I never knew that term before these forums, but I must be using it at times because on extreme spin shots my stroke doesn't end up parallel to the line of aim during its follow through. Now, I don't aim it like people here do, ie. aim for center ball hit then pivot back hand. I just aim by feel, but I know I'm coming across the face of the cue ball because my stroke is not straight on the follow through. Of course, I also use parallel english, another method I didn't know I was using until these forums (I'm self taught). I have no problem switching between the strokes on different shots using Predators. I wouldn't even be aware that I was doing it except for seeing that the follow through on some shots is not parallel to the path of the cue ball, yet on other shots it is.

In conclusion, I am of the opinion that there is nothing you can't do with a Predator shaft that you can with a conventional shaft, except jump well. You CAN still use all of the various strokes, just the aiming point is different.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I'm an all feel player and I play with Predator cues. In fact, I would even venture to say that a Predator shaft lends itself to non-system players more than conventional shafts. I say this because it doesn't work with many of the conventional aiming systems because of its decreased deflection. Therefore, you can't use any of the aiming systems out there and either have to develop your own system or play by feel.
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Totally wrong. With zero deflection it lends itself to more true cueball paths. No aiming system I can think of, ghost ball, tangent lines, ect. take into account deflection when using siding. The minute you start having a cueball deflect when putting siding on the ball there is a factor where you cannot use a system to determine the aiming of the shot. No 2 cues deflect exactly the same, no two shots will deflect the exact same based on speed, the amount of siding you are putting on the ball, the distance of the shot, the felt you are playing on, the factors are extreme and NO aiming system takes them into account. They simply cannot, the minute your cue deflects the shot you are forced to use a "feel" or a natural instict on how much the cueball will deflect on the shot you are playing. Using a non-predator cue people take huge amounts of time getting accustomed to the amount of deflection they are getting out of the cue, they have to create the feel for the particular cue.

I totally disagree with you on this, the Predator is in no way the cue for the "feel" players over the non-Predator cues. The non-predator cues force a player to have a engrained feel for the amount of defelection their cue produces on every fathomable shot and that information cannot be put into any sort of system, it has to be learned through countless hours of shooting with that cue and slowly your brain will work out for you subconsiously where you need to aim when using siding.

You say Predator does not work due to reduced deflection, well what aiming system do you know of that actually incorperates deflection into it to begin with? The aiming systems I have seen, wether it be a ghost ball, some kind of rali system, ect... never take into account defelction and always work under the assumption that the shot is center ball, or as the ghost-ball system and most others work the cueball must be at X at contact when the contact is made. Having a straight line to the target "ala Predator" is going to work better then a curved line to the target "ala normal shafts" for almost every system.
 
I think I can provide some insight on Predator....

For years, I only used bar cues. About 15 years ago, I purchase a "real" cue. I noticed that my consistency increased; I didn't notice much difference in play.

In April of this year, my Huebler butt cracked on me so I had to buy a new cue fast. I went to Mueller's (we have a store in town---lucky us) and bought a wood to wood, uni-lock sneaky pete (I forget the number). I thought I'd test out the Predator with the cheapest price.

I usually play 8-ball on bar boxes, so I am used to slight curving shots and slight jump shots. These are very handy at barbox 8-ball. After using nothing but my Predator for seven months now, I am still struggling on these shots.

The curve shot changes because the squirt (sometimes called "deflection"...see Jewett on the use of these terms) is soooo much less than on a regular shaft, that the aiming point is more dramatic. This is a DISadvantage, as one has to point the Predator waaaaaay off line to avoid the interfering ball(s). The curve coming back will, of course, have to be greater and the angle into the object ball changes, too.

On jump shots, my Predator is pretty much worthless for me. I thought it would be better with the light weight near the tip, but I can barely get the cueball of the cloth. Note: I used to be able to jump full balls with control, so I know how to jump. It's just that the Predator won't get old whitey flying very high.

I'm about ready to get another cue (w/ a uni-lock---they're great) with a regular shaft to be able to have the slight masse' and jump shots back in my arsenal.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on these two shots from the experts here.

Jeff Livingston
 
Celtic said:
Totally wrong. With zero deflection it lends itself to more true cueball paths. No aiming system I can think of, ghost ball, tangent lines, ect. take into account deflection when using siding. The minute you start having a cueball deflect when putting siding on the ball there is a factor where you cannot use a system to determine the aiming of the shot. No 2 cues deflect exactly the same, no two shots will deflect the exact same based on speed, the amount of siding you are putting on the ball, the distance of the shot, the felt you are playing on, the factors are extreme and NO aiming system takes them into account. They simply cannot, the minute your cue deflects the shot you are forced to use a "feel" or a natural instict on how much the cueball will deflect on the shot you are playing. Using a non-predator cue people take huge amounts of time getting accustomed to the amount of deflection they are getting out of the cue, they have to create the feel for the particular cue.

I totally disagree with you on this, the Predator is in no way the cue for the "feel" players over the non-Predator cues. The non-predator cues force a player to have a engrained feel for the amount of defelection their cue produces on every fathomable shot and that information cannot be put into any sort of system, it has to be learned through countless hours of shooting with that cue and slowly your brain will work out for you subconsiously where you need to aim when using siding.

You say Predator does not work due to reduced deflection, well what aiming system do you know of that actually incorperates deflection into it to begin with? The aiming systems I have seen, wether it be a ghost ball, some kind of rali system, ect... never take into account defelction and always work under the assumption that the shot is center ball, or as the ghost-ball system and most others work the cueball must be at X at contact when the contact is made. Having a straight line to the target "ala Predator" is going to work better then a curved line to the target "ala normal shafts" for almost every system.
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Having beat on each others head like battering rams on the now defunct aiming thread, I have to pretty much agree with everything you said on this post and especially your first one in this thread. There are a couple of areas that I want to address as I see it. You said, "No aiming system I can think of, ghost ball, tangent lines, etc. take into account deflection when using siding".

There may in fact be a system that you just don't know about, and it's Hal Houle's system which in essence NEGATES deflection by the use of backhand english that is incorporated into just about every shot with a cut. So it's a twofold method: one of aligninging the shot, and tip offset with backhand to negate deflection that makes it totally unique. However, NO...NO OTHER SYSTEM DOES.

You also said, "The minute you start having a cueball deflect when putting siding on the ball there is a factor where you cannot use a system to determine the aiming of the shot".

My feelings are you can ALWAYS use a system to determine the aiming of the shot. IT JUST GIVES THE PLAYER AN INITIAL REFERENCE POINT TO START FROM. But based on the other areas that you suggested such as speed, amount of siding, distance, felt, you then HAVE to make an adjustment through feel OR make a conscious effort to aim further outside or inside your determined spot that you would have for a normally straight forward shot with centerball. Either way it comes down to an educated guess through experience, or feel through experience.

Whether you use a Predator or a non-Predator shaft, you'll still develop "feel" over a certain period of time with either shaft. They're just at opposite ends of the spectrum and you couldn't really be talking the same language between both users. Eventually you could even develop some sort of feel if you used a metal rod for a shaft and have NO FEEL for anything else.

At least the Predator users on here are honestly stating certain things that non users or previous Predator users have said about the shaft:

(KYLE) "Have patience with it. I've had mine for about 2 years now, it probably took half of that time to get completely comfortable with it. I have a couple of friends who bought one and didn't like it a couple of days later.

My response is, who in the hell wants to give up one whole year of playing to get used to a shaft? Who wants to miss shots and shoot like crap over a year just to get back to where you were initially"? In my case, I DID! And I could kick my own stupid ass for doing it, and it never did boost me beyond where I'd ever been.

(TATE) "Predator shafts are definitely different. They are extremely accurate but have a funny feel to them. They are 1/2 ounce lighter than most standard shafts of the same dimensions and all of this weight is removed from the tip area. On soft english shots it felt like the tip was bouncing off the cueball".

YES, they are definitely different. They have a funny feel and the lighter weight from the front end sure doesn't help if you like the feeling of a forward weighted cue and have been used to playing with one your whole life. EVERYTHING gets thrown off, tempo...timing...distance control...spin...throw, that's a lot of getting used to.

(Iusedtoberich) "I also hear many people here say that you can't use backhand english with a Predator. The aiming point is different".

Yep...the Predator actually overcorrects if you're used to using it and you'll miss EVERYTHING. Efren said about a Predator, "The CB just never goes where I aim it". I know the feeling well, and don't want to put 2-3 years into figuring it out.

(CheffJeff) "After using nothing but my Predator for seven months now, I am still struggling on these shots". Meaning curve and jump.

Well, how much longer do you want to struggle? When do you think "the magic" is just going to kick in?

And then in Celtic's first post he basically said that the Predator just feels like shit and plays like shit and you have to change your whole game around to get used to it. Why have we wasted all of these words when that pretty much sums it up? (no offense to the Predator users who I like and respect otherwise...I love you guys)
 
drivermaker said:
<snip>
(CheffJeff) "After using nothing but my Predator for seven months now, I am still struggling on these shots". Meaning curve and jump.

Well, how much longer do you want to struggle? When do you think "the magic" is just going to kick in?

And then in Celtic's first post he basically said that the Predator just feels like shit and plays like shit and you have to change your whole game around to get used to it. Why have we wasted all of these words when that pretty much sums it up? (no offense to the Predator users who I like and respect otherwise...I love you guys)
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I had to laugh at your choice of words as I just watched the "shit" episode on South Park (the Cards were losing)

I don't want to struggle any longer. In fact, I was cleaning out a closet yesterday and found my old favorite, my K-Mart, Steve Mizerak cue!---the "disposable lighter" of cues. I thought I'd broken my only one left, but there it was. So, I screwed my Huebler shaft to it and am going back to using it again until I can afford another regular shafted cue with better qualities.

The reason I struggled with the Predator at all, was to test it for myself. Nothing magical. I figure that seven months of daily playing is good enough for me to know what it does and does not do.

I gotta go, the "Gerbil" episode (my favorite) is on,

Jeff Livingston
 
What town?

NZBoy said:
Hello All
My question concerns predator cues. I live in New Zealand and have been playing for about 1 1/2 years with a cheap cue and i now want to move up to a better playing cue. The problem is that in New Zealand cue ranges are very limited and the ablity to play with a wide range of cues before purchasing is quite hard.
Thanks
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I travel thru NZ often and I have quite a bit of experience in the cue market. I also travel with more than one cue..I sometimes take a couple to friends in OZ.
What town do you live in? I often play at the rooms on K - road in Auckland. Next trip should be in March05.
 
chefjeff said:
I don't want to struggle any longer. In fact, I was cleaning out a closet yesterday and found my old favorite, my K-Mart, Steve Mizerak cue!---the "disposable lighter" of cues. I thought I'd broken my only one left, but there it was. So, I screwed my Huebler shaft to it and am going back to using it again until I can afford another regular shafted cue with better qualities.

The reason I struggled with the Predator at all, was to test it for myself. Nothing magical. I figure that seven months of daily playing is good enough for me to know what it does and does not do.

Jeff Livingston
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That there is a good post on Predator cues. I feel sorry for yoy Jeff, because at the time you bought that Predator every Predator fanboy was singing the praises of those things like it was some second comming of christ or something. As I have always said, Predator are one of the greatest marketed cues out there. They have tons of hype and they do lots of fancy things with their adds to make those cues seem to be no brainers. They trick alot of people and for all the posts me, Drivermaker, you (now), and all of the other people who know the real deal with Predator cues post people still get tricked into thinking they are the be all end all best cues and shafts in the game. Most of those people are the types that dont have the experiance in the game either in using a large number of cues, or trusting their opinion to make their mind up for themselves, they go with the hype and then 6 months or a year later they get that experiance, they hit with afew more non-predator cues, and they decide they just dont like these gimmicky shot-limited shafts with no feel.
 
The first predator shaft I played with was one of the first ones out. A friend asked me to try out his new shaft. My responce was it's to weak for me. Honestly it felt like a limp noodle. He liked it so that's all that matters.

Since I have shot with several that belong to friends. These are the newest style, a 314. They are different and quite a bit stiffer that the original. Maybe I played less than an hour with two of them. Both were different, one a SP and the other had a wrap. After all of this I can honestly say, I don't get it.

I aim the same as with my cue, nothing changed the balls still go in. So again I don't get it when someone says it squirts less, spins more and all the hype. It is to me anyway because it seems the same. I never tried to jump any balls but it felt different on some shots especially softer shots. It's just not as positive as my cue. More spin = no, less squirt = no, so why would I want to buy a skinny shaft with less feel? I don't. Your mileage may vary.

Rod
 
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