Pro-level B&R % on a 9' Pro Am (?)

cigardave

cigardave

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While practicing on my table a couple of days ago, Mr.J and I were wondering what percentage of the time the pros are breaking and running out on 9' Diamonds (w/pro cut pockets)... playing 9-ball.

As reported in Play Your Best Nine Ball, Phil Capelle reviewed 500 games played by the pros during the 1990s and the average % was 28%...and I'm guessing that the vast majority of the time those games were played on Gold Crowns.

Jeff and I were guessing that % has likely dropped to somewhere between 15 and 20% now that Diamonds have come into play.

Your thoughts?

And another one... how about 10-ball on the same table? I would think that the pro-level B&R percentage has to be less than 10%.

Anybody know what Shane's percentage is?

And how about Chris's?... he's played a lot of 10-ball matches on Diamonds, right?
 
cigardave said:
While practicing on my table a couple of days ago, Mr.J and I were wondering what percentage of the time the pros are breaking and running out on 9' Diamonds (w/pro cut pockets)... playing 9-ball.

As reported in Play Your Best Nine Ball, Phil Capelle reviewed 500 games played by the pros during the 1990s and the average % was 28%...and I'm guessing that the vast majority of the time those games were played on Gold Crowns.

Jeff and I were guessing that % has likely dropped to somewhere between 15 and 20% now that Diamonds have come into play.

Your thoughts?

And another one... how about 10-ball on the same table? I would think that the pro-level B&R percentage has to be less than 10%.

Anybody know what Shane's percentage is?

And how about Chris's?... he's played a lot of 10-ball matches on Diamonds, right?
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Wasn't that a Diamond that Shane beat Donny on in the Action match on TAR from Clearwater, FL. I believe Donny's B&R avg was way up there. Would be interesting to know the answers to your questions though. Johnnyt
 
Also Corey's 10-ball tournament at a resort in (I believe) Holiday, FL had B&R stats from it. Where to find them I don't know. Johnnyt
 
Well most 9 ball tournaments nowadays have different break\rack rules. The 9 ball on the spot, break from the box, etc. So the B&R % is going to be lower.

If they get a good rack with normal break rules they will easily beat 28%. I would say it would be above 50% if you use the magic rack. Most pros will put 3 packs on you consistantly in 9 ball. You get maybe 2-3 shots in a race to 5 winner breaks.
 
I would think playing 9 ball, the percentage would be around 35%, or 1 in 3. In 10 ball I think it would be around 20%, or 1 in 5.

There are a variety of factors that work against someone in a break and run. Making a ball on the break is the biggest factor that can stop a run. Pro caliber players also play shot percentages far better than amateurs. They will play safe to win the game, never thinking about trying to break and run or keep a package going.
 
mnShooter said:
Well most 9 ball tournaments nowadays have different break\rack rules. The 9 ball on the spot, break from the box, etc. So the B&R % is going to be lower.

If they get a good rack with normal break rules they will easily beat 28%. I would say it would be above 50% if you use the magic rack. Most pros will put 3 packs on you consistantly in 9 ball. You get maybe 2-3 shots in a race to 5 winner breaks.
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The numbers I have see are nowhere near 50%, and I would be surprised if the average player was at 28% on the diamonds. I watch as much pool as I can, and I don't think the percentage I have seen would be even close to 50%. I know the women's numbers were listed and their average probably wasn't over 15%. I would think accustats would have some of this general info.
 
mnShooter said:
Well most 9 ball tournaments nowadays have different break\rack rules. The 9 ball on the spot, break from the box, etc. So the B&R % is going to be lower.

If they get a good rack with normal break rules they will easily beat 28%. I would say it would be above 50% if you use the magic rack. Most pros will put 3 packs on you consistantly in 9 ball. You get maybe 2-3 shots in a race to 5 winner breaks.
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As a matter of fact, I don't think the stats for a ball on the break is that much over 50% itself. So B + R can't be that high.
 
mantis99 said:
As a matter of fact, I don't think the stats for a ball on the break is that much over 50% itself. So B + R can't be that high.
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With the magic rack I can make the wingball every time in 9 ball with a medium break. This is on a Gabriel with 4.25" pockets which is smaller than most diamonds.
 
mantis99 said:
The numbers I have see are nowhere near 50%, and I would be surprised if the average player was at 28% on the diamonds. I watch as much pool as I can, and I don't think the percentage I have seen would be even close to 50%. I know the women's numbers were listed and their average probably wasn't over 15%. I would think accustats would have some of this general info.
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I watch basically every tournament that is streamed or televised. Very rarely do you see any men's pro tournaments where you can break from the side rail and have the 1 ball on the spot and not have to get at least 3 balls past the headstring. Most tournaments now have the 9 ball on the spot. That's why the break and runs are lower.
 
I'd say 50% is a pipe dream for any pro's average B&R.. That would mean a ball would have to be made, shapes on the lowest ball, no balls touching for the most part etc.. etc..

Chances of all of those falling in line over 1/2 of the time for anyone is pretty far fetched IMHO!!
 
brandoncook26 said:
In 10 ball I think it would be around 20%, or 1 in 5.
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Come to think about it, I've got the TAR DVD set of Shane playing Alex 10-ball on a 9' Diamond Pro Am at the DDC... it's Round 1 of their face-offs.

I'll have to dig it out and see how many B&Rs they had.

I'll be surprised if it's close to 20%.

The match was race to 20 and it went hill-hill... meaning 39 games were played.

20% of 39 is 7.8... or 8 games... hmmm, maybe. We'll see. :wink:
 
> Come on now people,LOL. The only living human that has ever posted a verifiable break and run percentage anywhere close to 50% over the long haul was Earl on the 2nd day of the famed race to 120 against Efren. In that case Earl broke and ran 19 out of 35,which is 54%. That is literally beating the ghost without ball in hand on a 9 footer,period. If that had been just a stock Diamond,I don't think it would have mattered.

I'm as sure as the sun is comin' up that this match,and in particular that section are the best 9-ball 99% of us have ever seen.

I've always heard the stat as 25-30% across the board as far as "tour" players though,from the top to the bottom of the rankings.

I'd say anyone averaging 25% on a Diamond is a hell of a player.

I believe there were individual IPT matches where guys like Cliff and Ralf posted 8-ball runout percentages approaching 50%,but only for a race to 8.

Sure would like to run up on the mythical genie in a bottle,because the 1st thing I'm askin for is 60% :grin:. Tommy D.
 
The AccuStats magazines were posting B&R percentages from many tournaments in I think the 80's and 90's. IIRC, high 30's very low 40's were being posted by the guys who were consistently placing high in these events. You have to be doing a lot of things right to B&R 30+% of the time.

Seems like the IPT was coming up with similar numbers for 8-ball B&R percentages in their tournaments as well, but I suspect that's partly due to the fact that you have to go for the out more often in 8-ball, since you often find yourself in a spot where ducking is simply not an option.

Aaron
 
I believe this has been brought up before in another thread on here and would have to find the link...but if I remember right it is in the lower 20s percentile on the 9 footer for the mens tour.
 
brandoncook26 said:
I would think playing 9 ball, the percentage would be around 35%, or 1 in 3. In 10 ball I think it would be around 20%, or 1 in 5.
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My opinion:

9-ball being played by a top-10 in the world player will come in close to (but a tad under) 1:3 (say 30-31%). 9-ball being played by a A+ player will revert back into the high 20% range (say 27-28%).

8-ball being played by a top-10 in the world player (are there any?) should come in at 25-28%. A+ players should B&R near 20-22%.
 
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