PRO PLAYERS AND INSTRUCTORS - Why the controversy?

[TheThaiger]

I know, it's humerus isn't it. They've been bluffing everyone for years on here and never had to "put up". They will never produce a video because they can't produce one. It's just the internet Forum version of 'The Wizard of Oz' .... I"ll let you guys figure out who's who.
CLICK

That is way out of order. God knows I've had run-ins with many of the instructors and physicists on here, but if there's one candidate for a man selling dreams from behind a curtain, it ain't them.

Next time, prove your methods actually work before gloating. And by 'work', I don't mean testimony from straw men or munchkins.

 

[CJ Wiley]

'the game speaks through players'

That is way out of order. God knows I've had run-ins with many of the instructors and physicists on here, but if there's one candidate for a man selling dreams from behind a curtain, it ain't them.

Next time, prove your methods actually work before gloating. And by 'work', I don't mean testimony from straw men or munchkins.

The ones I refer to have been VERY CLEAR, making no claims to be instuctors T.T.

Hmmm, TOI on "snooker steroids", I'm not sure if it works as well on "small balls". The margin of error is certainly smaller in snooker.

TOI is proving it's self, have you not read the excitement at www.cjwiley.com ? 'THE GAME SPEAKS THROUGH PLAYERS'

 

[CJ Wiley]

I see him differently:

:grin-square: I LOVE it when Mr. Wilson get's involved. He reminds me of Mr. Harris at my middle school...He had this big perforated paddle on his desk...he seldom used it.....

I see him differently:

 

[OnePocketBanks]

Earl Strickland was once asked how he became such a talented player. His answer was that he spent 16 hours per day practicing. He would sleep for 8 hours, and practice for 16 hours.

That should put to rest much of this discussion. I know CJ would not mislead you in what it takes to become a good player, because I am sure he put in just as much practice as Earl.

But I have noticed that some people are saying that they have a method that can cut the learning curve, or make you a better player even though you have little time to practice.

So far I have not seen it. Show me one world champion that never practiced 10 hours a day to get where they are at. And they all did it a different way, with different methods of instruction and practice.

And while you will bicker over the method, the real importance is on the dedication. It doesn't matter what drill you do, it's the amount of attention that you give to the drill.

We should be happy that CJ is here. John Schmidt too. But all I see is an attempt to drive them away, to fight with them.

I only have one question for CJ and John. How much time did you spend practicing during your career. We can skip the rest of the questions.

I can watch Earl Strickland hit a shot a certain way. And if I care enough, I can go to the table and practice that same shot until I understand how he hit it. I don't need anyone else to tell me how to do it, unless I don't care enough to figure it out myself.

 

[lfigueroa]

*then* calls for help?

Mike Howerton emailed this to me last year, after I contacted him about being banned for defending myself.

quote:
What you are failing to understand is that "fighting your own battles"
is exactly what I am trying to stop on the forums. As I have said over
and over, I don't read all of the posts. I only see problems when
people report them. But when someone refuses to report threads because
they can "fight their own battles", then I see the battles being
fought and have to respond as best as I see fit.

Please, when you return from the ban, let me know when posts are a
problem instead of fighting your own battles. The forum is not there
for battle fighting, it is supposed to be for constructive
conversation.

Mike


Do you see the problem here? It appears those of us that attract attention (ie actually have a personality) aren't allowed to defend ourselves, and, when we report abuse instead, are mocked by the moderators for doing what they told us to do in the first place!

Well, all I know is that I certainly won't be using the Report function again.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

That is way out of order. God knows I've had run-ins with many of the instructors and physicists on here, but if there's one candidate for a man selling dreams from behind a curtain, it ain't them.

Next time, prove your methods actually work before gloating. And by 'work', I don't mean testimony from straw men or munchkins.

Well, they say actions speak louder than words so getting up and playing Efren for 20 hours and coming out on top when Efren was in his prime is pretty good proof of ability.

Conversely, Lou has never beaten me playing one pocket, his specialty, and you know how bad I play.

 

[lfigueroa]

Mr. Wilson are you calling lou a nit? Are you a moderator on this site? Thats not how I would expect a mod to behave.

This appears to be the new normal now on AZ. The mod calls you a nit. Some favored posters are allowed to call others pu**y, a**hole, d**che, chicken sh*t, without consequence. But woe to the guy who uses fanboy, nut-hugger, and oh yes, snake oil salesman.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

Earl Strickland was once asked how he became such a talented player. His answer was that he spent 16 hours per day practicing. He would sleep for 8 hours, and practice for 16 hours.

That should put to rest much of this discussion. I know CJ would not mislead you in what it takes to become a good player, because I am sure he put in just as much practice as Earl.

But I have noticed that some people are saying that they have a method that can cut the learning curve, or make you a better player even though you have little time to practice.

So far I have not seen it. Show me one world champion that never practiced 10 hours a day to get where they are at. And they all did it a different way, with different methods of instruction and practice.

And while you will bicker over the method, the real importance is on the dedication. It doesn't matter what drill you do, it's the amount of attention that you give to the drill.

We should be happy that CJ is here. John Schmidt too. But all I see is an attempt to drive them away, to fight with them.

I only have one question for CJ and John. How much time did you spend practicing during your career. We can skip the rest of the questions.

I can watch Earl Strickland hit a shot a certain way. And if I care enough, I can go to the table and practice that same shot until I understand how he hit it. I don't need anyone else to tell me how to do it, unless I don't care enough to figure it out myself.

The thing is that there are things that Earl and other top pros discover not only by their practicing 16 hours a day but also by their being in constant competition with and in conversation with other pros. When you practice 16 hours a day by yourself you certainly can't fail to improve. But when you compete with and compare notes with others who also practice 16 hours a day then the amount of knowledge is multiplied immensely.

For a mid level player who cannot or will not put in 16 hours a day then having someone who HAS put in that time impart some of their knowledge and experience definitely shortens the learning curve.

In fact that's why there IS a learning curve. It's a graph of how long it takes a person to acquire and apply knowledge. There is no doubt in my mind that a player who spend four diligent hours a day with Buddy Hall instructing them will be better faster than a person who spends 16 hours a day on their own.

The day after Jimmy Reid spent teaching me some kicking methods my game went up immediately. Not weeks or months later, but in less than 24 hours I had added hundreds of shots that I could make successfully just by getting qualified instruction. Now, it did take months to fine tune that technique and master it. But I can confidently say that Jimmy's hand's on instruction accellerated the process tremendously. Even if I had learned the same systems from a book or video I can say for sure that I would not have learned the nuances that Jimmy Reid was able to demonstrate and explain in person in just a few hours.

 

[TheThaiger]

Well, they say actions speak louder than words so getting up and playing Efren for 20 hours and coming out on top when Efren was in his prime is pretty good proof of ability.

Conversely, Lou has never beaten me playing one pocket, his specialty, and you know how bad I play.

I don't know how badly you play. I know how badly you cue, however.

As for beating Efren, i have no idea what you're talking about, or how it relates to this conversation.

 

[TheThaiger]

Well, all I know is that I certainly won't be using the Report function again.

Lou Figueroa

I wouldn't bother emailing for specific info, either.

 

[JB Cases]

This appears to be the new normal now on AZ. The mod calls you a nit. Some favored posters are allowed to call others pu**y, a**hole, d**che, chicken sh*t, without consequence. But woe to the guy who uses fanboy, nut-hugger, and oh yes, snake oil salesman.

Lou Figueroa

Be fair Lou. You have gotten away with flat out slander for YEARS and never been called on it. Years.

Stan Shuffett is a gentleman. He is a gracious and kind person and you have done all that you can to attack him over and over for years.

You have tried every rotten trick to discredit him to the point of saying that he deliberately defrauded his customers by withholding information the force people to book paid lessons.

Never once have you received so much as stern glance.

Stan plays at a much higher level than you do. He is also a professional instructor. And he has bet his son's career as a pro on the aiming methods he teaches. Beyond that he has many world class players who have testified to his excellence as an instructor. None of that was enough for you to back off or be civil.

Now you are doing the same thing to CJ Wiley, who is in your own words a bonafide champion. Your pattern is that if someone is selling some way to play that doesn't match your worldview then you pan them. If they do match your world view which happens to be essentially hit a million balls and memorize every possible approach for every possible shot then you lash out.

Your attitude was revealed entirely when you made the statement that if Willie Mosconi himself said that CTE was the greatest way to aim you would tell Willie he is wrong. So it's apparent that you hold an unwavering stance on how to play pool that not even the greatest 14.1 player in the world could dislodge. That is an awfully sad place to be in my opinion. But it's even worse when you attempt to foist that opinion on everyone else. And you have done it by trying to appear as if you have a ton of experience to back it up.

But when players with real high level experience show up and hold a different view your position can't hold up any more. So you try and save face by making all manner of cutting remarks and flat out slanderous comments.

And you can get away with it as long as you are telling me off, or telling Dave Segal off, because we, like you, are amateurs. But when you start telling the pros that they don't know what they are talking about then it is my opinion that you have overstepped the line and shouldn't whine when you are finally given a speeding ticket after getting away with breaking the rules for years.

 

[TheThaiger]

The ones I refer to have been VERY CLEAR, making no claims to be instuctors T.T.

You know who I mean.

Hmmm, TOI on "snooker steroids", I'm not sure if it works as well on "small balls". The margin of error is certainly smaller in snooker.

It would be interesting nonetheless. The balls and pockets are smaller, but the game is essentially the same, isn't it? You are hitting the CB slightly differently to achieve a slightly different effect on the OB - whether that's a 2.125" ball or a 2.25" ball makes no difference to the concept.

I say test it and see what happens. It could revolutionise snooker - and think of the money there is for that in China, where there are 30 million casual players!

 

[JB Cases]

I don't know how badly you play. I know how badly you cue, however.

As for beating Efren, i have no idea what you're talking about, or how it relates to this conversation.

It relates like this.

When you have climbed Mt. Everest successfully then you can talk about what's required to climb Mount Everest. When the best you have ever done is to hike up an 800ft hill you not only can't tell people how to climb Mt. Everest you also can't tell people who did anything about how they did it.

 

[OnePocketBanks]

Knowledge by itself is worth very little. Muhammad Ali has lots of knowledge in boxing, but he hasn't knocked anyone out lately. This is a quote made by Billy Incardona. Billy is (arguably) the most knowledgable one pocket player in the world today. But you do not see him winning the Derby City One Pocket or the US Open One Pocket.

Execution is much more important. The players that are the best at execution will win. Young players with relatively little knowledge in one pocket and bank pool have been winners of major tournaments due to their execution.

How often do you think John Morra plays bank pool? How often do you think Shane Van Boening plays one pocket? Yet they won Derby City last year, because their execution is the best in the world. And that is not to say that they have no knowledge in those games, but it certainly is not their main focus.

And so then let us question if Shane and John spend 12 hours per day practicing, or did they spend half a day at pool college and all of a sudden turn pro?

 

[OnePocketBanks]

Knowledge by itself is worth very little. Muhammad Ali has lots of knowledge in boxing, but he hasn't knocked anyone out lately. This is a quote made by Billy Incardona. Billy is (arguably) the most knowledgable one pocket player in the world today. But you do not see him winning the Derby City One Pocket or the US Open One Pocket.

Execution is much more important. The players that are the best at execution will win. Young players with relatively little knowledge in one pocket and bank pool have been winners of major tournaments due to their execution.

How often do you think John Morra plays bank pool? How often do you think Shane Van Boening plays one pocket? Yet they won Derby City last year, because their execution is the best in the world. And that is not to say that they have no knowledge in those games, but it certainly is not their main focus.

So then let us question if Shane and John spend 12 hours per day practicing, or did they spend half a day at pool college and all of a sudden turn pro?

 

[Maniac]

Earl Strickland was once asked how he became such a talented player. His answer was that he spent 16 hours per day practicing. He would sleep for 8 hours, and practice for 16 hours.

Logistically speaking, this never happened.

This would mean that he NEVER ate a meal, sat on the commode, talked on the telephone, drove a car, paid his bills, did any housework/yardwork, showered, shaved, got a haircut, etc. :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:!!!

And......if you try to comeback and say he was still living at home with his parents when he did this.........what parents are gonna let their teenage son get away with this crap???

It has a lot more credibility to hear that someone practiced 12-14 hours a day, then slept 8. At least then we know that he found time in the day to eat and sh*t.

Maniac

 

[CJ Wiley]

The Game offered me a way, not to master the Game, to Master a Shot,

Earl Strickland was once asked how he became such a talented player. His answer was that he spent 16 hours per day practicing. He would sleep for 8 hours, and practice for 16 hours.

That should put to rest much of this discussion. I know CJ would not mislead you in what it takes to become a good player, because I am sure he put in just as much practice as Earl.

But I have noticed that some people are saying that they have a method that can cut the learning curve, or make you a better player even though you have little time to practice.

So far I have not seen it. Show me one world champion that never practiced 10 hours a day to get where they are at. And they all did it a different way, with different methods of instruction and practice.

And while you will bicker over the method, the real importance is on the dedication. It doesn't matter what drill you do, it's the amount of attention that you give to the drill.

We should be happy that CJ is here. John Schmidt too. But all I see is an attempt to drive them away, to fight with them.

I only have one question for CJ and John. How much time did you spend practicing during your career. We can skip the rest of the questions.

I can watch Earl Strickland hit a shot a certain way. And if I care enough, I can go to the table and practice that same shot until I understand how he hit it. I don't need anyone else to tell me how to do it, unless I don't care enough to figure it out myself.

I guess you're just going to take me on my word, and I owned a pool room for 17 years so there are many on this Forum that was around me in Dallas during my "prime". I was never much of a "practice player," and put in most of my longer hours gambling.

I played pool for a living on the road and practicing for me would be like you practicing your job (without getting paid). Before a major tournament I would practice an hour, maybe two, or give up the 5/7 and the break to someone for "cheap sets".

Before playing in the Ultimate 9 Ball tournament, for instance I gave one of the best players in Dallas (TR) the 5/7 and the break and won 11/2. Practicing didn't do anything but keep me warmed up, the action is what tuned me up.

I'm only sharing the TOI, I live "It" and I will die with "It". The reason I understand and appreciate TOI now, more than ever is when I came back this time after an 8 year sabbatical I "forgot" to use "It" every time and was mixing up my spins and speeds. I respect players that can make all the calculations and judgments to play that way, I simply don't enjoy that game.

There is nothing I totally enjoy doing that I like thinking about while I'm doing it. It's like the difference between a musician playing "strictly" by notes and one that FEELS the music and the instrument seems to play "through" them. In pool, I find the most enjoyment when The Game Plays Through Me.

Please don't take me literally, it's a figure of speech and related to a musician or artist painting and allowing the art to take form THROUGH him, not thinking about every stroke of the brush. This is the "zone," we road players refer as 'DEAD STROKE'.....TOI unlocks that Game unconsciously.

TOI works and it's more effective than you want to believe right now. I understand, you have to protect yourself from a lot of mis information in this world. Just allow me to suggest seeing what other players are saying in their testimonials at www.cjwiley.com ....these ARE REAL and from actual people the last few weeks that have been following me here on AzBilliards and EXPERIENCING TOI.....you will never understand it unless you experience the "Touch" that it offers.

Does anyone think I would spend thousands of dollars and thousands of posts about something I didn't know for sure worked? Of course not, pool isn't my occupation, it's something I do for enjoyment and I"m offering the Gift that the Game offered me years ago.....when I really needed to win.

The Game offered me a way, not to master the Game, to Master a Shot, and that shot was the Touch OF INside. Now the Game is revealing the Touch OF INside to those that "Real Eyes" it's significance, or not, you be at choice, Listen to the Message, not the Messenger. 'The Game is My Teacher' CJ WILEY www.cjwiley.com

 

[TheThaiger]

It relates like this.

When you have climbed Mt. Everest successfully then you can talk about what's required to climb Mount Everest. When the best you have ever done is to hike up an 800ft hill you not only can't tell people how to climb Mt. Everest you also can't tell people who did anything about how they did it.

Those that have been up Everest can tell you how hard it is; the physical and mental challenge.

Anyone who's ever trotted up a slight incline can tell you how to climb Everest: keep going til you get to the top.

There is no 'Mt Everest Secrets' DVD, JB.

 

[Spimp13]

There is no 'Mt Everest Secrets' DVD, JB.

Wrong lol.....carry on

 

[SakuJack]

There is no 'Mt Everest Secrets' DVD, JB.

If there were, there are people here who would buy it, I'm sure .