PRO PLAYERS AND INSTRUCTORS - Why the controversy?

[CJ Wiley]

go over two tips left of center and hit that point into the right edge of the 12

Could you please provide a demo of using the above technique when the balls are set up as below where you are cutting the stripe ball into the 3 ball.

That's easy, line up center to edge, go over 1.5 tips left of center and hit that point into the right edge of the 12 ball. In this instance I allow the cue ball to spin with English, I wouldn't if the other ball wasn't in the way slightly. If you don't do this you may foul the shot, especially if you're using a bridge.

This is a TOI shot like a few I show in the New Video. Remember, when cutting a ball to the left use left TOI depending on the angle. The more the angle, the more you move inside.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Like I said , I had never used the little reporting icon thingie before and wanted to see what would happen. (I guess not much

I have not challenged CJ so I don't know what you're talking about. I fully admit he is way out of my weight-class. Here's my response after he challenged me to play 10ball: And, lol, to CJ: ain't happening. First off, I learned long ago to not matchup with pros. I don't spend enough time on pool and I'm not good enough. I haven't played a rotation game in years -- anyone in St. Louis can vouch for this. My eyes are so bad now that I can only play 1pocket. Been that way for years. I'm one of those weak old guys with no aiming system and bad technique that just shuffles around the table and bunts all the balls uptable. You've seen the videos -- can't run 50 balls with multiple tries. The evidence is out there for everyone to see! Hell, a player of your caliber and accomplishments, what with your super-duper touch of english technique on every shot, could probably give an amateur like me 15-5 and I still wouldn't have a chance. Thanks for asking though ;-)

So, Dave Wilson, I guess you calling me a nit and all I should now call you out to "put your money where your mouth is" to play some 1pocket? I mean, since this seems to be the way it now works on AZ and us both being amateurs so at least it would be a little bit fairer than CJ woofing at me... Maybe we could get Big Truck to stream it or if you'll be in Vegas this July during CSI's big event we could get use of the TAR table? Bet TBD.

Lou Figueroa

CJ offers to spot you the last four playing for "pride" and you moon-walked out of the room (just because "you don't play pros cause your eyes are bad"); yet your chest is wider than Arnold Schwarzeneggar's when it comes to playing a moderator who has zero chance of beating you.

You're not even a nit, you're like "nit concentrate." If they add water to you, you'd be normal nit strength.

If they combed the nitbags off the heads of 1000 homeless people and dropped them in a Jack LaLanne Juicer, squeezed the juice out of them and then reduced it to a concentrate, that's what Wilson is saying.


CJ, in Lou's place, I'll play on a live stream for $1 and you don't have to spot me the last four. In fact, YOU can have the last two. That way, if I play above my speed (WAY) and squeak a few games, I did so giving the weight instead of getting.

Efren, if you're reading this--- you got the last two as well for $1.

I've needed glasses for YEARS (I keep the written script in my wallet) but I've never bought them because I don't want to play pool looking over rims.

 

[sfleinen]

That last sentence sounds like a SECRET.:grin:

No it's not, Joey. That technique is called a "fouette" shot, and is well-covered in Bob Jewett's video:

"NV B.52 - Using a fouette shot to prevent a double hit, with Bob Jewett"
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-52.htm

The idea is to "squirt" the cue ball hard and immediately, so it gets out of the way of a normal follow-through.

-Sean

 

[CJ Wiley]

the technique I"m referring to, this is the {cjnofoulit}

No it's not, Joey. That technique is called a "fouette" shot, and is well-covered in Bob Jewett's video:

"NV B.52 - Using a fouette shot to prevent a double hit, with Bob Jewett"
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-52.htm

The idea is to "squirt" the cue ball hard and immediately, so it gets out of the way of a normal follow-through.

-Sean

This isn't the technique I"m referring to, this is the {cjnofoulit} btw....I'm talking about if the balls are two inches apart you use a two inch bridge.

If the balls are a half inch apart you would use a half inch bridge. You don't have to shoot away from the ball this way. VERY effective in one pocket situations. 'The Game is the Teacher'

This is just constructive input, don't tell lou, he'll make some kind of macadamia comment

 

[Scott Lee]

Just FYI CJ...Randy and I have been teaching this technique, exactly as you describe it, for a couple decades now. Randy calls it the "pierce factor"...it's an 'advanced' technique! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

btw....I'm talking about if the balls are two inches apart you use a two inch bridge.

If the balls are a half inch apart you would use a half inch bridge. You don't have to shoot away from the ball this way.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Now to teach you the "HammerStroke". You'll be running out like water.

Just FYI CJ...Randy and I have been teaching this technique, exactly as you describe it, for a couple decades now. Randy calls it the "pierce factor"...it's an 'advanced' technique! :grin:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I'm impressed...glad you like it. Now to teach you the "HammerStroke". You'll be running out like water.

 

[nb92]

Hahaha Lou, you care way too much about what CJ does. Ever heard of a man crush?

In the last week alone, I have seen way more posts from members who swear that his teachings have tremendously helped their game, than I have ever read about what you've done to elevate anyone's pool journey.

And then to top it all off, you decide to ironically call someone else passive agressive when you're too chicken shit to agree to a free game from someone who offered you the six and out. Now you're just a keyboard warrior who chose against matching up to talk more crap about a world-class player on the forums. We need more people like that on AZB

How's that for respect and civility?

I now have a man crush and his name is "evanlockhart" :embarrassed2:

 

[TheThaiger]

No it's not, Joey. That technique is called a "fouette" shot, and is well-covered in Bob Jewett's video:

"NV B.52 - Using a fouette shot to prevent a double hit, with Bob Jewett"
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-52.htm

The idea is to "squirt" the cue ball hard and immediately, so it gets out of the way of a normal follow-through.

-Sean

That looks like a foul to me. Furthermore, how is that shot useful? Extremely difficult to control both OB & CB, and I doubt you can play it slow enough to get distance between both balls anyway.

 

[lfigueroa]

I think some humorous banter is fine, however, lou said I was a "snake oil" salesman several times in the last few months and I didn't even know snakes required oil???

I don't recall that. I just did a search using the appropriate terms and got nothing back. Please show me where I said that.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Scott Lee]

CJ...Ummm, no thanks (on the "hammerstroke"). I just wanted to point out to others that this is no "secret", and has been taught by good instructors for years.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I'm impressed...glad you like it. Now to teach you the "HammerStroke". You'll be running out like water.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Respect and civility?

Sorry, Stu, but you need to go back and read through his posting history. To CJ, disagreeing with him is tantamount to an "attack." Then his passive-aggressive MO is to mock those who have dared to disagree with him with silly pictures. Personally, I don't care about his condescending attitude but people shouldn't get sucked into believing his posting history here has been as pure as the driven snow.

Lou Figueroa

I can see that I should have stuck to my original knee jerk reaction that was to ban Lou.
He'd been put on notice and it didn't take him 24 hours to revert to form.

Guys are right. I shouldn't have inferred that he's a NIT.
I should have just disciplined him accordingly.


For future reference, Lou and detractors...take note.
If you are in an aiming thread and you are not a productive part of the conversation and I determine that you are merely arguing and baiting the people that are here to learn from whomever.....I will not make comment.

I will act.

This is going into effect immediately. January 24th. 5:48PM EST.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

hope you don't mind

CJ offers to spot you the last four playing for "pride" and you moon-walked out of the room (just because "you don't play pros cause your eyes are bad"); yet your chest is wider than Arnold Schwarzeneggar's when it comes to playing a moderator who has zero chance of beating you.

You're not even a nit, you're like "nit concentrate." If they add water to you, you'd be normal nit strength.

If they combed the nitbags off the heads of 1000 homeless people and dropped them in a Jack LaLanne Juicer, squeezed the juice out of them and then reduced it to a concentrate, that's what Wilson is saying.


CJ, in Lou's place, I'll play on a live stream for $1 and you don't have to spot me the last four. In fact, YOU can have the last two. That way, if I play above my speed (WAY) and squeak a few games, I did so giving the weight instead of getting.

Efren, if you're reading this--- you got the last two as well for $1.

I've needed glasses for YEARS (I keep the written script in my wallet) but I've never bought them because I don't want to play pool looking over rims.

hope you don't mind if i borrow this! I might even put it in my sig line

 

[One Pocket John]

No, the TOI Video is being uploaded right now for the FIRST TIME in the United States.

Using the TOI Technique requires you to hit the cue ball consistently the same speed. This over a few days will give you a much better "Touch"....that's the "Inside" reason.

They learned it by PMing me and reading my posts here on az and on face book...I have a 70k following on line currently world wide. fyi

When the balls are close together, usually it's a center to edge alignment (angles are amplified close together) and you MUST accelerate more than ever....shorten your bridge to exactly the distance between the cue ball and the object ball and hit it quick....with that length bridge you won't be able to foul or double hit the cue ball. 'THe Game is the Teacher'

CJ, just visited your website and cannot find TOI.

Thanks

John

 

[trinacria]

who gives a shit what people say. 100% of the people who have smart-ass comments or are straight assholes would shit their pants if they had to do it face to face. bunch of fake tough guys behind a computer screen. AZ should hold a national convention and everyone is required to wear an AZ name tag.

LETS GET IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CJ Wiley]

CJ, just visited your website and cannot find TOI.

Thanks

John

It's not up yet, just some testimonials of people I've been helping with TOI and have commented on line.

We're done, just had to go downtown to pick up my shipment of 'Billiards Inside Secrets' and just got back. If anyone ordered a DVD in the last couple of weeks they were all sent out today and back in stock for immediate delivery now.

John, the TOI Video will be up early in the morning, we just have to upload it here in a few hours. The final cut was worth it. CJ

 

[One Pocket John]

It's not up yet, just some testimonials of people I've been helping with TOI and have commented on line.

We're done, just had to go downtown to pick up my shipment of 'Billiards Inside Secrets' and just got back. If anyone ordered a DVD in the last couple of weeks they were all sent out today and back in stock for immediate delivery now.

John, the TOI Video will be up early in the morning, we just have to upload it here in a few hours. The final cut was worth it. CJ

Thanks for the update.

John

 

[336Robin]

Whats it About? What you can do for Pool!

Like I've said many times, I'm friends with Randy G, his pool school here in Dallas and as far as I know we've never even had a disagreement. I played league with him and he even beat me the last time we played. I shook his hand and told him "nice game, you played well", there was not even the slightest animosity.

I've lost more pool games that most people could lose in their life times. I"ve won several too, but it's based on playing hundreds of thousands of games in my life time. I've always felt you have to learn how to lose to truly learn how to win in life.

People refer to me posting on here as advertising, yet this is a forum and many people advertise themselves, their products, their expertise and their opinions. Why am I so different. I do advertise, but it's on TV, Radio and in print ads. Most of my writing will be used in a book that's coming out later this year. I have one I'm doing on my road experiences and one on my instructional experiences with golf, tennis, martial arts, and of course pool.

Most people know I'm in the bar and restaurant business for the past 20 years, not the pool business. I do this as a hobby and use it to try to help other people with their games. There is very little money in this and overall since I've been posting on azbilliards I've spent much more than I can ever hope to make.

I've given away over 20 DVDs to members here,as well as signed posters and other memorabilia in "Goodwill" and in hopes that it makes someone happy. I do get more aggressive with the pictures and posts when people start attacking me personally, and who doesn't have a self defense mechanism? I've been attacked quite a bit and continue to be by lou, neal, pjslasher, scott, duckie, and others with "hidden identities".

This is not unusual in the least to me, I"ve been scrutinized ever since I became a champion player, but so does pros from other sports and certainly other pros in pool. If you don't have "haters" in life you're probably not making an impact is what Hank Haney used to tell me.

He wrote a book on Tiger Woods and his experience coaching him and got attacked from numerous people, far more than could ever attack me on this forum. Does he complain or fret about it? Not at all, he laughs about it because he knows it's part of being in the public light. These attacks say more about the person saying them than the people they are said about. On here "some" hide behind secret identities and they have the least impact because everyone knows what they are secretly doing on here.

I will continue to try to help people on here with their games and my azbilliards videos are due out soon. The whole reason I ever started on here is to help this web site with supplying video content to their new video department. I have 12 web sites I work with, this is one I do for fun and entertainment.

So far I really like most of the people I've encountered on here and have made many new friends and of course I'm back in touch with hundreds of old friends from years ago. I like Randy G. and if he posts something about his school on one of my threads I would not even give it a second glance. I'm of the opinion that people on here can write whatever they want as long as it's civil and not some kind of personal attack on anyone.

There is always a level of professionalism that can be maintained in the Game or in this Forum. "The Game and This Forum are the Teacher'

CJ,
Saw your thread this morning, havent read any of the responses but liked your post and would like to further expand what youve said. I work all the time I work for state goverment, run a lawn care business and in 2005 a friend got me back into pool and I drank the Koolaid and got rehooked on it. With all I try to do it a great stress reliever and I decided to make it my study to try and unlock the secrets of aiming the ball. What has always amazed me is that professional players do some awesome things and then you ask them how they aim the ball and get.......so its a solo flight for the pool player to figure out how to do what he needs to learn to do.

I believe that the frontier of aiming is a great frontier in pool to try and conquer and this is the subject I picked and you know I could have found something easier to write about..... but man what a great challenge.

At some point I got on Az and found Aiming Wars and I started reading what was going on and whoo hooo.....just make a few comments watch the flames.......and it was fun to pick a side and flame a little but......

We are all in this thing together and in the end our Industry isnt exactly gaining players so I turned my attention to that and while I am working on a product I believe people are going to like.

If I havent said this....Id like to say this now. I want to thankyou for introducing me to Touch of Inside.....Its changed my thinking on position play. Im not a completely indoctrinated follower of CJWiley but man you have some pretty strong points with this methodology and style of play.

I went to pool room and found you were right on a lot the accounts you stated and I could make most everyshot I shoot with a Touch of Inside and yes its like learning 1 Shot really well and thats pretty cool in my book.

What I was not counting on when I learned how to apply this to my game was a change in my perceptive abilities like I had.

I have been working with an aiming method that I think is pretty important work for awhile now and using Touch of Inside brought me a few revelations about it that ended up being pretty important to me.......So Thankyou very much. In fact I was working on something and I think this is where I turned the corner on it and was able to finish the work on the product in making it very well rounded and more complete.

Your free contributions here are well noted and very much appreciated by me.

I wish I had a dollar for every hour I've spend working on and writing about aiming and yes this is something I do that might as well be counted as free although Ive sold a few books on here.

I tackled the aiming subject and I did knowing it was going to be a monster and found out it was worse than that. It was a monster that had many heads and was in attack mode..... but what the heck I do it becauase I love it and the point is....that singular contributions have a tremendous impact in peoples games and lives at times. That is what I hope to be able to do.

You are in Texas and Im in North Carolina and you pointed me in a direction that made me able to get on the path where I could better finish up on something I was working on...that I fully believe is going to have its own ripple effect in peoples games.

So this thing is a pay it forward type of atmosphere....if we all are more concerned about Creating New Players and less about working on someones reputation I think the game will benefit but people are people....and people do stuff that some people just have to do.

I at times get opinionated about a subject or two out of frustration with out sport but Im a gentleman about it, but can be fairly outspoken. Sometimes Im right but sometimes Im not completely right after I get to thinking about it but I do try to be well intended.

Pool is a very large thing that is alive and its extremely disjointed, un-organized with little cohesiveness and its a market environment where only the strong survive for there is little association there to back us up when the chips are down.

So when you consider that all efforts to help the sport are largely Individualized efforts.....yeah.....some of you guys on here might want to stop just a second before you lambast someone with a product and ask youreselves....do you really think this crowd buys much of anything on here? This is a tough crowd.

I did what I did and I stood back and realized what I needed to do to finish a method I had started working on and Im working on it now with finishing touches.

I will be glad when its done. I hope to make it very affordable for everyone because Im just not down with trying to make my living off of pool but it would be nice to be able to make a few bucks to pay for some of my pool travels, and enter a few tournaments on it. I think I was greatly helped by the fact that CJ provided something for free to kick start me into taking a different perspective on what I was doing that made me see something more important in what I was working with.

For me its all about keeping people interested in pool and people like CJ Wiley who do a lot for the game out of love regardless of whether or not they have attained Pro Status, or have developed business accumen to learn how to make money in other ways are great contributors if nothing more than just in peoples person games.

People will do as people will do and then people will say things that later they think, you know wish I hadnt said that.

Is it possible that we can all agree on one thing?

Is it possible that we agree on keeping and creating new pool players?

Its not about what Pool can do for you....its about what you can do for pool!

What can I do?

Well just for funsies I think when Im done with my current project.... that throwing some gas on the flames of aiming wars is great entertainment. You just have to love it!!!SIZE]

 

[CJ Wiley]

I'm not the teacher of the TOI in any particular person, I'm only the messenger.

CJ,
Saw your thread this morning, havent read any of the responses but liked your post and would like to further expand what youve said. I work all the time I work for state goverment, run a lawn care business and in 2005 a friend got me back into pool and I drank the Koolaid and got rehooked on it. With all I try to do it a great stress reliever and I decided to make it my study to try and unlock the secrets of aiming the ball. What has always amazed me is that professional players do some awesome things and then you ask them how they aim the ball and get.......so its a solo flight for the pool player to figure out how to do what he needs to learn to do.

I believe that the frontier of aiming is a great frontier in pool to try and conquer and this is the subject I picked and you know I could have found something easier to write about..... but man what a great challenge.

If I havent said this....Id like to say this now. I want to thankyou for introducing me to Touch of Inside.....Its changed my thinking on position play. Im not a completely indoctrinated follower of CJWiley but man you have some pretty strong points with this methodology and style of play.

I went to pool room and found you were right on a lot the accounts you stated and I could make most everyshot I shoot with a Touch of Inside and yes its like learning 1 Shot really well and thats pretty cool in my book.

What I was not counting on when I learned how to apply this to my game was a change in my perceptive abilities like I had.

I have been working with an aiming method that I think is pretty important work for awhile now and using Touch of Inside brought me a few revelations about it that ended up being pretty important to me.......So Thankyou very much. In fact I was working on something and I think this is where I turned the corner on it and was able to finish the work on the product in making it very well rounded and more complete.

Your free contributions here are well noted and very much appreciated by me.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm glad to hear about your "perception shift" concerning the Touch Of Inside. This is the only way, in my personal development that I "broke through" to higher, stronger and more effective ways of playing pool.

"If we keep doing (and thinking) the same things, we are going to keep achieving the same things in our pool games." CJ Wiley

The Touch Of Inside, when applied for 3 or more hours will change the perspective, "clean your slate", and show great possibilities for improvement. This is from my own personal experience playing the Game and showing others how to reach their own highest levels.

I'm not the teacher (the Game shows us the way) of the TOI in any particular person, I'm the messenger, delivering this message. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[EasyEJL]

I don't recall that. I just did a search using the appropriate terms and got nothing back. Please show me where I said that.

Lou Figueroa

This appears to be the new normal now on AZ. The mod calls you a nit. Some favored posters are allowed to call others pu**y, a**hole, d**che, chicken sh*t, without consequence. But woe to the guy who uses fanboy, nut-hugger, and oh yes, snake oil salesman.

Lou Figueroa

and maybe you are right, your other quotes didn't literally include "snake oil salesmen" but things along the same lines - late night infomercials, kevin trudeau style, etc which all imply pretty much the same thing as snake oil salesman

 

[(((Satori)))]

I can see that I should have stuck to my original knee jerk reaction that was to ban Lou.
He'd been put on notice and it didn't take him 24 hours to revert to form.

Guys are right. I shouldn't have inferred that he's a NIT.
I should have just disciplined him accordingly.


For future reference, Lou and detractors...take note.
If you are in an aiming thread and you are not a productive part of the conversation and I determine that you are merely arguing and baiting the people that are here to learn from whomever.....I will not make comment.

I will act.

This is going into effect immediately. January 24th. 5:48PM EST.

Sometimes it is the guy who is willing to state his opinion against the system who adds the most productivity of all to the conversation, regardless of wether he or his opinion is popular at the time or not. Both PJ and Lou have contributed a lot of productivity imo.

And their insults have been no worse than C.J.'s or in fact your own comment in this thread.

CJ himself has stated that it is because of his interaction on here that he has been able to clarify, in his own mind and in others, his TOI technique and I cant help but think that PJ played a big part in that.