pro players & backhand english..........

I've noticed that if you need an extreme english on a slow shot, you get more spin with a tuck and roll than regular parallel english. If your tip goes across the cueball, you'll get more spin than with a straight line towards the object ball. Anyone noticed the same ?
 
The pros talk about back hand english more than you think. When you hear a pro say "I was spinning it in", they are talking about back hand english. It reduces deflection and puts more of a throw on the object ball.
 
This thread is crazy. I've never, that's right never, seen one male professional player use parallel english on a routine basis. Rempe taught me to use it when I want or need to create more deflection to create some angle. Even players that say they use it or teach it, are guilty of having their cues lined up on an angle (They fall on the shot with the pivot angle already on it) Then they say see and I say yeah I do see, you're on an angle. I'm sure some snooker style players might promote this style of spinning the ball (cuz the don't know any better, No way just kidding folks) But I want to see these top pool players in action using parallel english.
Aim and pivot either with backhand tuck and roll or slightly moving your bridge hand to the left or right while keeping your backhand still. Use parallel english when you want to increase cue ball deflection angle (even with a predator "Z" shaft).

Joe T
 
In some extreme situations where I really have to throw the object ball to make it, I over due the back hand english. What I mean by over doing it is... say I'm going to use right english. With parallel english I'd move my bridge hand to the right. With back hand english the bridge hand stays still and the back hand moves to the left. To over do back hand english when trying to get a lot of right spin, you not only move the back hand to the left, you even move the bridge hand to the left which means your back hand would have to go even more the left than normal back hand english shot. I just read this again, sounds clear as mud to me. Could anyone understand what I was saying here?
 
Joe T said:
Aim and pivot either with backhand tuck and roll or slightly moving your bridge hand to the left or right while keeping your backhand still. Use parallel english when you want to increase cue ball deflection angle (even with a predator "Z" shaft).

Joe T
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Agreed. In fact, if you are dead straight on a pocket and you want to go forward, what do you do so you don't scratch?
Yup, parallel english.
 
can someone explain this Tuck & Roll method. the only one that I'm familiar with is the Bert Kinister way of backhand english.
also. If no pro uses parallel english. then why do so many books & videos advocate this method. seems to me that it is a conspiracy to keep outsiders from reaching Pro status level of play. :)
 
seven said:
can someone explain this Tuck & Roll method. the only one that I'm familiar with is the Bert Kinister way of backhand english.
also. If no pro uses parallel english. then why do so many books & videos advocate this method. seems to me that it is a conspiracy to keep outsiders from reaching Pro status level of play. :)
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I think the answer to this is, it would probably be vary hard to learn back hand english first. I know long ago when I was learning and experimenting with engligh, I was using parallel english. After coming to understand that, nobody ever told me about back hand english it just seemed a natural progression to back hand english.
 
mjantti said:
I've noticed that if you need an extreme english on a slow shot, you get more spin with a tuck and roll than regular parallel english. If your tip goes across the cueball, you'll get more spin than with a straight line towards the object ball. Anyone noticed the same ?
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I have to agree with you...it's not a monstrous amount, but it is more. Now, on a cut to the left using outside english, were you referring to tuck...or...roll?
 
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drivermaker said:
I have to agree with you...it's not a monstrous amount, but it is more. Now, on a cut to the left using outside english, were you referring to tuck...or...roll?
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"Tuck and roll"... I have the impression that it differs from back hand english. In back hand english you compensate for the spin during aiming. In "tuck and roll" you aim straight and compensate not until the actual stroke. Or have I understood the difference totally wrong here ?

I like parallel english more than back hand english. But, to be honest, I feel like I'm automatically using back hand english on certain shots without noticing. Haven't payed much attention... and I remain happy if the balls keep going in without any hassle :D
 
seven said:
can someone explain this Tuck & Roll method. the only one that I'm familiar with is the Bert Kinister way of backhand english.
also. If no pro uses parallel english. then why do so many books & videos advocate this method. seems to me that it is a conspiracy to keep outsiders from reaching Pro status level of play. :)
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Here are my definitions:

Aim and pivot == backhand english --- You line up for a centerball on the cue ball, then keeping your bridge hand in place, you pivot the stick around your bridge hand until you have the amount of sidespin you want. You take a few warmup strokes along the new line, and shoot. The pivoting is intended to cancel squirt. The more you pivot, the more english you get and the more squirt, so the pivoting and the squirt more or less match up for all amounts of spin. You must have your bridge at the pivot point of the cue, and that pivot point is different for each shaft. Most people who use or teach aim-and-pivot (backhand english) don't understand most of the details.

Aim and swoop == tuck and roll -- Just like above, but there are never any warmups along the final line. All the pivoting is done on the final forward motion, with a swerving stroke.

NOTE: some other people use different definitions.

As for who uses what, I think you need to watch the players in action to see what they are really doing and even then you might be misled.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Here are my definitions:

Aim and swoop == tuck and roll -- Just like above, but there are never any warmups along the final line. All the pivoting is done on the final forward motion, with a swerving stroke.
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And for those that are defining "tuck and roll" ( namely you), and also one who MUST understand most of the details, can you also explain how this is accomplished during the forward motion. What occurs and how is this done? Are you saying that the elbow moves further from your side when you go to the left...and then closer to your side when you hit to the right. What is the hand, fingers, forearm, and elbow doing in the stroke and what leads the way to change the direction of the cue tip?
 
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mjantti said:
"Tuck and roll"... I have the impression that it differs from back hand english. In back hand english you compensate for the spin during aiming. In "tuck and roll" you aim straight and compensate not until the actual stroke. Or have I understood the difference totally wrong here ?
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You're correct to a certain degree, however you can also have the tip preset for english and still do it, but there's a certain way of applying it. The answer will be forth coming in the next post by Jewett (after my post). I think....
 
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seven said:
yes I do. But I'm willing to take the chance. :D
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Whoa Pard's...What happened to that very straight stroke neurosis? What suddenly occurred that's allowing you to overcome the fear of coming out of line and messing that ramrod thing of beauty up? :confused: You might never be able to shoot straight again if you attempt this stuff :(
 
Williebetmore said:
RJ,
Are you sure??? I've seen her give a lesson where she said to only use parallel English (except with rare exceptions).
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Hi Willie, My information regarding Jeanette's back hand English practices was second hand info and shouldn't have been posted by me. I heard it(firsthand by email) from a well know famous women's player when I questioned her about aiming methods of the pros.I emailed her at her website with questions about secret aiming practices of the pros. The way I UNDERSTOOD her email, it had explained that Jeanette was in fact using backhand english.I didn't save the email and maybe I(99.99% sure I didn't) misunderstood. I didn't verify this info by asking Jeanette PERSONALLY, so I shouldn't have posted it.

In summary Recovery Jones has learned his lesson: DON"T POST SECONDHAND INFORMATION AS FACT. My appologies. RJ
 
Fred Agnir said:
I think this statement shows that the author doesn't know much about it or doesn't have much experience with it.

If you understand the principle of Aim and Pivot, understand your cue's pivot point, then backhand english can be very predictable. IMO, it's the easiest way to compensate for squirt on firm shots for most standard shafts. I've found that the pivot point for a classic pro taper is around 10-12". That's in the normal range of bridge lengths for today's players.

Fred
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I guess until one finds the pivot point on their cue, longer shots can be more unpredictible.Having said that, no matter what method of applying english one uses, longer shots are allways somewhat more difficult than short ones. How do you find the pivot point for your personal cue?Is there a test or formula? RJ
.
 
drivermaker said:
Whoa Pard's...What happened to that very straight stroke neurosis? What suddenly occurred that's allowing you to overcome the fear of coming out of line and messing that ramrod thing of beauty up? :confused: You might never be able to shoot straight again if you attempt this stuff :(
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not sure what happened... but if its something that might elevate my game....then i'm probably going to try it.
Preliminary results are pretty good. although.... I've noticed that its difficult to put just a little spin using the swooping method. in other words.
1/2 tip of swooping english gives me about the same spin as 2 tips of parrallel english. also. swooping english throws the object ball more. (most likely because of the increased amount of spin) also. swooping english does not seen to work well when shooting medium to long distance softly. I think...at least for now... when I need 1/2 tip english. (which for me is most of the time. I will use parralell.. when I need more action on the cueball I will use swooping english. I'm still working out the kinks. :)
 
recoveryjones said:
Hi Willie, My information regarding Jeanette's back hand English practices was second hand info and shouldn't have been posted by me. The way I UNDERSTOOD her email, it had explained that Jeanette was in fact using backhand english.I didn't save the email and maybe I(99.99% sure I didn't) misunderstood. I didn't verify this info by asking Jeanette PERSONALLY, so I shouldn't have posted it.

In summary Recovery Jones has learned his lesson: DON"T POST SECONDHAND INFORMATION AS FACT. My appologies. RJ
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Oh hell Jonesy...what fun is that? Which movie did greater at the box office and had super reviews compared to the other one...Sex, Lies, and Vidoetapes...or...True Confessions?
I don't know what the hell that has to do with any of this, but it sure sounded good as I was making it up. :D
 
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