Pro Players paying into Social Security and Taxes on monies won
- Thread starter justabrake
- Start date
we don't tax gambling wins here as it should be
you guys in the usa have laws on that which i believe vary from state to state
biggest cash grab ever
If it's considered "income" ( which gambling winnings are ), it's federal law. Some states have income tax, some don't. If you live in a state that does, you get clipped twice.
That said, in nearly 50 years of being around gambling ( pool, specifically ), not one player I've ever known has ever filed income taxes on gambling winnings. Maybe a few have, but you would think, if so, it would've come up in conversation somewhere down the line. And it hasn't.
JC
Coos Cues
In order to qualify for even the bare minimum ss and medicare you need to work 40 quarters grossing at least $1500 in each one currently. The rate for the self employed is 15.3% so that would cost them $229 each quarter that they claimed. It seems highly unlikely to me a road warrior will have either the wisdom or the discipline to do this on 40 separate occasions over the years. They will lose that much gambling many more times than that over the years however.
JC
ALLL OF THIS!!! It is everyone's business whether or not people pay tax on their INCOME.... Just because it is money won, that is still money earned and taxes are to be paid. The sport needs to become legitimate in many ways if it will ever gain popularity as a Professional Sport. By this happening will only help more people make an honest living as Pro's and have a future.
While I am ranting:
The old pool room model is another part that is stopping growth. Pool rooms like Surge, Griff's Bar & Billiards, The Freezers Icehouse, Fargo Billiards & Gastropub are what will help the sport grow, IMO.. Good tables, good food and drink, clean bathrooms, safe parking and well thought out decor. A place where a woman/ women would actually go on their own or where you could take a date or your wife. A good mix of recreational players, league players and the serious players are needed. In that order because it is generally true that recreational players spend the most in rooms, then league and then the serious player. Not saying anyone should be treated better or worse, but, I am saying that they are all customers and can/ should be accommodated. Just my $0.02.
Trent from Toledo
Entry fees are not taxed. Entry fees are a cost of doing business and are subtracted directly from your income. The hotel bill also comes out. And car travel at something like 50 cents a mile. And whatever you pay to practice and your mileage to and from the pool hall. If you have a home table, you can depreciate the cost over something like five years. (Depreciation comes directly off your income.)
All this assumes that the player treats his play like a business.
There is a small problem: if you don't actually show a profit (three of five years?) the IRS considers it a hobby. I've shown a profit at pool for something like each of the last 20 years.
As for the calcuttas, I'm pretty sure those are required to file a 1099-G for every payment over $600.
i'm wondering if you recognize the logistical, legal and philisophical differences regarding taxing between monies won, monies gambled, and monies earned
imo, our laws here do it the right way followin the correct philosphy
-pooled monies get split between the pool, no tax, as we're essentaily just sharing our monies
-gambled monies CHANGES THE VALUE PROP and deters gambling,you wouldn't wager a 50/50 prop for a 40% return
are you understanding and acknowledging the above (I doub't it)
and simply suggesting....the law is the law?
I just snuck in with 42 Quarters! I always owned my own businesses and rarely put any money into SS. Luckily I did have a regular job for a few years from age 21-24 and worked at Summer jobs while in high school and college. After that the only paychecks I earned were as a Technical Adviser on a TV show or movie, plus a few commercials. My SS check is probably the smallest of anybody's who qualified (under $200), but I get Medicare and that's what counts. Fortunately for me I invested in real estate deals with my family and that provides me with retirement income now. If I didn't have that I would still be working in a poolroom somewhere.
I own a pool industry business 8 On the Break LLC, I make money and after write offs(expenses) pay taxes on my income. A professional athlete is also a operating a business, they make money, have write offs(expenses) and are expected to pay taxes on that money. I am not talking about legal or illegal gambling. Tournament winnings, endorsement payments, teaching payments and appearance fee's are things that I am speaking of that are taxable. From my knowledge, "most pro's" ( I used pro VERY loosely because there are so few that qualify for that term) are not running legitimate business's and most likely pay very very little in taxes.
Just my opinions of course.
Trent from Toledo
P.s. I have no Idea where you are from
Canada
and it's the "tourney winnings" I'm referring to
agreed with having to pay taxes on monies earned
you're not understanding the differences between monies won and the tax correlation from pooled cash
and it's the "tourney winnings" I'm referring to
agreed with having to pay taxes on monies earned
you're not understanding the differences between monies won and the tax correlation from pooled cash
JC
Coos Cues
I just snuck in with 42 Quarters! I always owned my own businesses and rarely put any money into SS. Luckily I did have a regular job for a few years from age 21-24 and worked at Summer jobs while in high school and college. After that the only paychecks I earned were as a Technical Adviser on a TV show or movie, plus a few commercials. My SS check is probably the smallest of anybody's who qualified (under $200), but I get Medicare and that's what counts. Fortunately for me I invested in real estate deals with my family and that provides me with retirement income now. If I didn't have that I would still be working in a poolroom somewhere.
Young pool players would be wise to follow your model. Squeeze in the quarters somehow. Time slips away.
JC
Do I Have to Report Earnings Under $600?
The Internal Revenue Service wants its share of all money you take in during the tax year. The IRS might not know you won a $20 bet with your best friend, or that he paid you $300 to save his crashed hard drive because you're a computer whiz, but technically, these sorts of things are still income. You're supposed to confess to receiving them on your return, no matter how minimal they are.
The $600 Rule
The $600 rule applies to the business paying you money, not to you. The IRS requires that if a business remits $600 or more to you during the tax year, it must issue you a Form 1099-MISC for that amount. You'll receive a copy of the 1099, and the IRS will receive a copy as well. If you perform work for a local business and the owner pays you $550, he doesn't have to give you a 1099, but you still have to report the income – you earned it.
Reporting Income
If you work for someone as an employee, the $600 rule doesn't apply. The employer usually must issue you a W-2 for any earnings, even if you worked only one day and your income was negligible. If he withheld any Social Security, Medicare or income tax from your pay, he must report this to the IRS too. He must also issue you a W-2 if he didn't withhold any income tax because you claimed enough allowances to prevent it. You'd report this as regular income on your return. If you're self-employed, all your business earnings should appear on Schedule C. The good news is that you also get to subtract your business expenses on Schedule C, then you enter the result as your income on your 1040. If you take in money for some other reason, such as the $300 your friend paid you to fix his computer, you'd enter it as "other income" on Line 21 of your 1040 return.
How the IRS Finds Out
The IRS will probably never know about that $20 bet you won, nor is it likely to spend government dollars trying to track it down. If you're self-employed, however, and if you fail to report earnings because you didn't really keep track of cash payments or because you weren't aware you had to report small amounts, the IRS can find out. This is particularly true if all those little payments add up. They might show as deposits to your bank account, and those deposits total more income than you've declared. If you don't report cash payments but use them to pay your bills, this might trigger an IRS audit as well. For example, if you report income of $30,000, but you serviced $36,000 in fixed living expenses, this might alert the IRS that something's wrong – that extra $6,000 has to have come from somewhere.
Penalties
If the IRS suspects that you've failed to report income, and if you can't prove that you didn't, the fallout can be significant. You'll have to pay taxes on the income you neglected to mention, plus interest. You could lose the right to claim certain tax credits and deductions. If your oversight was an honest mistake – you just didn't know you had to report all those little $100 payments – you might get away with a 20 percent penalty. If the IRS suspects that you intentionally set out to cover up that income, it becomes tax fraud. This can bring criminal charges and a whopping 75 percent penalty.
https://budgeting.thenest.com/report-earnings-under-600-27251.html
The Internal Revenue Service wants its share of all money you take in during the tax year. The IRS might not know you won a $20 bet with your best friend, or that he paid you $300 to save his crashed hard drive because you're a computer whiz, but technically, these sorts of things are still income. You're supposed to confess to receiving them on your return, no matter how minimal they are.
The $600 Rule
The $600 rule applies to the business paying you money, not to you. The IRS requires that if a business remits $600 or more to you during the tax year, it must issue you a Form 1099-MISC for that amount. You'll receive a copy of the 1099, and the IRS will receive a copy as well. If you perform work for a local business and the owner pays you $550, he doesn't have to give you a 1099, but you still have to report the income – you earned it.
Reporting Income
If you work for someone as an employee, the $600 rule doesn't apply. The employer usually must issue you a W-2 for any earnings, even if you worked only one day and your income was negligible. If he withheld any Social Security, Medicare or income tax from your pay, he must report this to the IRS too. He must also issue you a W-2 if he didn't withhold any income tax because you claimed enough allowances to prevent it. You'd report this as regular income on your return. If you're self-employed, all your business earnings should appear on Schedule C. The good news is that you also get to subtract your business expenses on Schedule C, then you enter the result as your income on your 1040. If you take in money for some other reason, such as the $300 your friend paid you to fix his computer, you'd enter it as "other income" on Line 21 of your 1040 return.
How the IRS Finds Out
The IRS will probably never know about that $20 bet you won, nor is it likely to spend government dollars trying to track it down. If you're self-employed, however, and if you fail to report earnings because you didn't really keep track of cash payments or because you weren't aware you had to report small amounts, the IRS can find out. This is particularly true if all those little payments add up. They might show as deposits to your bank account, and those deposits total more income than you've declared. If you don't report cash payments but use them to pay your bills, this might trigger an IRS audit as well. For example, if you report income of $30,000, but you serviced $36,000 in fixed living expenses, this might alert the IRS that something's wrong – that extra $6,000 has to have come from somewhere.
Penalties
If the IRS suspects that you've failed to report income, and if you can't prove that you didn't, the fallout can be significant. You'll have to pay taxes on the income you neglected to mention, plus interest. You could lose the right to claim certain tax credits and deductions. If your oversight was an honest mistake – you just didn't know you had to report all those little $100 payments – you might get away with a 20 percent penalty. If the IRS suspects that you intentionally set out to cover up that income, it becomes tax fraud. This can bring criminal charges and a whopping 75 percent penalty.
https://budgeting.thenest.com/report-earnings-under-600-27251.html
Don't forget Bob, Gambling losses are also a Deduction against your taxable Income. They just can't exceed your gross taxable income!!!
No, I am speaking of INCOME and ignoring what ever else you call it. Here in the good ole USA, any money you bring in from work is income and taxes are supposed to be paid. I was specifically mentioning Professional Pool Players and keeping on topic with the OP's original post. What ever it is you do up in Canada is completely irrelevant here where we live, whether you agree with it philosophically... It is called tax evasion if you play pool for a living, make money and dont pay your taxes... I think someone mentioned non business type money stuff is a hobby. To be clear, I was speaking of Professional Pool Player and taxes.
Trent from Toledo
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unless things have changed after 50-60 years, Gambling losses are only deductible against GAMBLING winnings/income.I don't think the IRS has suddenly gotten real stupid.
How the hell do you come up with such specific bad information? Stick to the tables.
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I think they all pay their taxes, the same as they all pay their health insurance. I did it when self employed.
I've only had a 10th grade education and I found it ridiculously simple.
Retirement is certainly a wonderful thing !!!
I've only had a 10th grade education and I found it ridiculously simple.
Retirement is certainly a wonderful thing !!!
Exactly. You can write off gambling losses ONLY up to the amount of winnings you PAID taxes on....in others words...break even. But that is only on your federal return,your state ,depending on where you live,may not allow you to write off gambling losses at all. I happen to live in one,and i have to pay gambling taxes every year(substantial amounts too)
I LOVE being retired! It gives me endless time to wish my back was good enough to let me play for more than 20 minutes every other day!!!
"""WORK FOR THE IRS ? """
WOW Really I guess you don't believe in paying your share of taxes
HUH???????? I file EVERY year as if its ANY of your f^*%&*g business. Pool players are independent contractors and how they deal with the IRS is their business not your's or anybody else on this forum. If you just mind your own business you probably won't have time to mind anyone else's.