I have been reading the various threads on pro pool. There never has been any pro pool and never will be, because, anyone can enter the so called pro tournaments by just paying the entry fee. Also there are no rules, no guidelines for equipment, no sponsors, no nothing for pro pool. There are just pool players who are better than others according to different skill levels. People like to argue, and all this is just something to argue about. If I was running a poolroom, I would focus on league players and leagues. That is where the money is at. I would not encourage the better players to play in my pool room. All they do is complain, and they are a pain in the butt. Everybody that has been around pool for awhile knows this to be true.
Pro Pool Does Not Exist
- Thread starter lstevedus
- Start date
Unfortunately the beauty of the game is not in the professional sport as you correctly suggest but it could be and perhaps once was. The beauty of the game is in the camaraderie of the people who play it. When you can make a friend that is worth having, have a place to meet more people like that, help someone learn how to love the game that is the Power of Pool. Everything else is just another aspect of it.
Agreed. The problem is that serious pool players don't spend lots of money on drinks, food, etc.
The bar near me has got it right: eight barboxes in so-so condition, pool is always free, lots of leagues and friends just getting together for a couple of drinks and playing pool. (Although I suspect that it's the six video poker machines where he makes most of his profit...there are always a couple of people on them no matter what time of day).
However, I don't agree about the definition of a professional pool player. If a majority (50+%) of your income is from the pool industry (winnings, lessons, etc) you are a professional. Every industry defines "professional" on its own terms, unique to that industry: the NFL definition is different from the PGA definition, which is different from the definition of a dentist.
I agree that leagues are what's keeping the game going right now. Local and regional tournaments help as well. I wouldn't say never on the pro level since the popularity for pool and billiards was once there (pre-WWII ) where you had sponsorship and organized qualifiers at the city sectional and national level but that has since changed and getting that back is the challenge. Building something for the future is tough because the early participants have to suffer the losses and guys want to earn (nothing wrong with earning) but sponsors and have to earn and money guys want to see ROI. We just had a new room open here and leagues and local tournaments are the focus.
I came back to the game a little over a year ago after being out of it for almost three decades. I've tried to encourage players into learning more about the history of the game learn more games like 3 cushion. I've donated a few items from my collection like pictures to the new room. Hopefully interests grow in the game and the opportunities grow with it. We may not see the Greenleaf Taberski Hoppe Cochran era again but more players more poolrooms than can thrive is okay too.
I came back to the game a little over a year ago after being out of it for almost three decades. I've tried to encourage players into learning more about the history of the game learn more games like 3 cushion. I've donated a few items from my collection like pictures to the new room. Hopefully interests grow in the game and the opportunities grow with it. We may not see the Greenleaf Taberski Hoppe Cochran era again but more players more poolrooms than can thrive is okay too.
Serious players always get a bad rep and probably deserve some of it. The great thing about this game is there is enough room for everybody. If I owned a room, I would make sure that it was filled up with leagues But, I would also host a weekly open tournament trying draw in good players. And I would host a couple of bigger tournaments a year trying to draw in the best regional players. Why? Because it creates a great environment. It's good for overall business. And I would also encourage new players to participate. It's all in the presentation.
Here is an analogy. Why do casino's have table games? Slots make more money per square footage. You don't have as many employee's or expense for slots. No health insurance, benefits, etc. The reason is for the experience. Many gamblers want to the experience of table games. They might crossover and play slots too. The casino's that have only slots do not do as well as their counterparts that also have table games.
It's hard enough to run a successful room without running off some of your most consistent customers. You can have your cake and eat it too. A room owner needs to have different income streams to be successful. Don't run off business because you think that "they" are bad. Having good players play in your room can create atmosphere.
Here is an analogy. Why do casino's have table games? Slots make more money per square footage. You don't have as many employee's or expense for slots. No health insurance, benefits, etc. The reason is for the experience. Many gamblers want to the experience of table games. They might crossover and play slots too. The casino's that have only slots do not do as well as their counterparts that also have table games.
It's hard enough to run a successful room without running off some of your most consistent customers. You can have your cake and eat it too. A room owner needs to have different income streams to be successful. Don't run off business because you think that "they" are bad. Having good players play in your room can create atmosphere.
Last edited:
I classify pro pool by the level of play. Same as many amateur tours do. If you are a certain level of play, you are a pro and not allowed to play as an amateur. That said, I agree that there is not a pro TOUR. A tour where your level of play determines whether or not you are allowed to participate. However, there was at one time, the IPT was one. You had to be known, or win a qualifier to enter. The Asians also have rankings as pro and on down. We don't at this time.
Good points...,
Your right, anybody who is trying to improve there skills at the game wants to see the best players play and play against them, so bringing them in from time to time creates a buzz and that's good for business.
Your right, anybody who is trying to improve there skills at the game wants to see the best players play and play against them, so bringing them in from time to time creates a buzz and that's good for business.
Well said.
For me and many of my friends that play the game, its our go to, our place of comfort.
For me and many of my friends that play the game, its our go to, our place of comfort.
well it depends...,
The Pro side could be made great again if someone took a bottom up approach and started at the league level by having the pro's spend more time developing relationships with fan base.
If each or most of the pro's had a following that they developed by helping lower level players improve and being highly visible at the amateur level so that the APA level players knew who they were and cared the game could grow.
The Pro side could be made great again if someone took a bottom up approach and started at the league level by having the pro's spend more time developing relationships with fan base.
If each or most of the pro's had a following that they developed by helping lower level players improve and being highly visible at the amateur level so that the APA level players knew who they were and cared the game could grow.
absolutely...
I've noticed this just being at the semi pro level since I've played in TAP league.
Players will come up to me and say I just love to watch you play.
I take the time to show the players some things, simple things like how to know whether a ball is cutable or not. I had a strong player tell me he didn't think that an eight ball I made was even cutable.
If the pros were willing to do things like that and the leagues were smart enough to market that type of thing, it would benefit pool as a whole, the pro's, the leagues and just interest in pool in general (imo).
Jaden
I've noticed this just being at the semi pro level since I've played in TAP league.
Players will come up to me and say I just love to watch you play.
I take the time to show the players some things, simple things like how to know whether a ball is cutable or not. I had a strong player tell me he didn't think that an eight ball I made was even cutable.
If the pros were willing to do things like that and the leagues were smart enough to market that type of thing, it would benefit pool as a whole, the pro's, the leagues and just interest in pool in general (imo).
Jaden
runouteasy
Banned
If something related to pool doesn't make financial sense it just won't continue to exist.
Why do leagues exist, even thrive? Because there is an endless crop of players at low skill levels who look at playing pool as just something to do. A reason to go out and drink, have some friendly competition. it's just a numbers game. Eventually they improve, quit or progress, but there's always more new players coming into the league system.
League operators make really good money doing it. Do you think they would run the APA as a nonprofit or league operators would run leagues for free? APA makes a fortune as an organization. Any casino hosting big tournaments has it's pick of thousands of suckers who fill the hotels restaurants and casino floor. Why wouldn't league pool work, it's a legalized Ponzi scheme.
Until someone is smart enough to run pro pool profitably either individually or as a group it just won't happen.
All I care about is having a place for an advanced amateurs to play. If people had heart and would bet that water is wet, I'd just gamble. Sadly there are so few looking to matchup no matter what spot they get.
I guess league pool can exist just fine without any pro pool at all. We seem to be proving that point every day.
A market economy wouldn't exist with that attitude.
Companies in today's market economy care about one thing....Growth and increased market share.
Existing without pro pool is not growing. Not growing, or stagnation in a market economy is the slow death.
Someone will come along and market pros to leagues the right way and they will take market share away from those who are willing to stagnate and when they do, it will be a great day for pool.
Jaden
Companies in today's market economy care about one thing....Growth and increased market share.
Existing without pro pool is not growing. Not growing, or stagnation in a market economy is the slow death.
Someone will come along and market pros to leagues the right way and they will take market share away from those who are willing to stagnate and when they do, it will be a great day for pool.
Jaden
runouteasy
Banned
All these pros need is a real organization behind them. Then model pool like poker with bigger payouts and real chances for any high level amateur player to place high or even win. The best players would have to give up a spot sure, but the prize monies could be huge. Make it like a Pro's versus Joe's sort of thing.
Look I will burnt a couple thousand to play DCC with no real chance at a big return, as do a thousand guys every year. Would I play a $1000 entry to have a better chance at placing higher...absolutely. So why not just make a 3 tiered handicapping system and let it rip. There is a lot of money out there but nobody has every found a way to tap into it.
we already have it...
It's being worked on right now with the Mezz West State Tour. I expect this type of format to be the future for professional pool.
i'd like to talk to Oscar about setting up a set path to professional rating as well if he isn't already.
Jaden
It's being worked on right now with the Mezz West State Tour. I expect this type of format to be the future for professional pool.
i'd like to talk to Oscar about setting up a set path to professional rating as well if he isn't already.
Jaden
you got that right!
Its only in this country that Pro Pool has been floundering, In the Philippines, Europe, Asia and many other countries there is a healthy effort to increase the level of exposure to the game and the money will follow.
Its only in this country that Pro Pool has been floundering, In the Philippines, Europe, Asia and many other countries there is a healthy effort to increase the level of exposure to the game and the money will follow.
It's a very attractive idea, except it would make the handicapping problem even bigger (i.e. more money at stake, the more likely people are to sandbag). Of course, the answer is always "a better handicapping system", but no handicapping system can outdo a person determined to cheat it.
