Pro Pool in America

Snap9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The first step is realizing why pool in America is at its current status. One word GREED. Greed from the pool manufactures and promoters have diminished the desire for a single combined entity. Competition between promoters have given the opportunity for a segregated venue within players compete. Opportunities for players to choose which organization to compete each weekend is the final outcome. Unity can never be realized by competing markets(aka the promoters) within this sport if cross contamination of rivaling regional tours exist.

Pool manufactures have no desire for sponsorship when it deals with actual monetary dispersement. Manufacturers would rather give product as they can use it at full manufacturers suggested retail price and use it as a tax write-off under advertising expenses. Now the manufacturers have pennies on the dollar into the product they are manufacturing. Manufacturers greed is holding back the expansion of our sport. Mike please don't use any of your tour endorsers as examples since they all provide you with product and not capital.

Professional(and i use this term loosely) pool players desire the same end result any pro football/soccer/tennis/golf/baseball player desires and that is MONEY. How do you get monetary sponsorship to have payouts for the players? First you must get organization(preferably a non-corrupt one). No manufacturer will sponsor an unorganized or corrupt venture.

Now to get sponsorship. Where to go? You have to start with billiard related manufacturers to monetarily sponsor the organization. Get the organization a strong structure based on these monetary sponsors. If you can not get inside billiard sponsors you will never get outside billiards sponsorship. Once everything is growning and has a great financial structure you can now look to expand by going to outside sponsorship. You get the first outside sponsor hooked hopefully it will begin the domino effect.

I will let you roll with that. There's more that can be done but this is just a rough outline of suggestions.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I don't believe that's true.

Snap9 said:
The first step is realizing why pool in America is at its current status. One word GREED. Greed from the pool manufactures and promoters have diminished the desire for a single combined entity. Competition between promoters have given the opportunity for a segregated venue within players compete. Opportunities for players to choose which organization to compete each weekend is the final outcome. Unity can never be realized by competing markets(aka the promoters) within this sport if cross contamination of rivaling regional tours exist.

Pool manufactures have no desire for sponsorship when it deals with actual monetary dispersement. Manufacturers would rather give product as they can use it at full manufacturers suggested retail price and use it as a tax write-off under advertising expenses. Now the manufacturers have pennies on the dollar into the product they are manufacturing. Manufacturers greed is holding back the expansion of our sport. Mike please don't use any of your tour endorsers as examples since they all provide you with product and not capital.

Professional(and i use this term loosely) pool players desire the same end result any pro football/soccer/tennis/golf/baseball player desires and that is MONEY. How do you get monetary sponsorship to have payouts for the players? First you must get organization(preferably a non-corrupt one). No manufacturer will sponsor an unorganized or corrupt venture.

Now to get sponsorship. Where to go? You have to start with billiard related manufacturers to monetarily sponsor the organization. Get the organization a strong structure based on these monetary sponsors. If you can not get inside billiard sponsors you will never get outside billiards sponsorship. Once everything is growning and has a great financial structure you can now look to expand by going to outside sponsorship. You get the first outside sponsor hooked hopefully it will begin the domino effect.

I will let you roll with that. There's more that can be done but this is just a rough outline of suggestions.


It's not necesary to get inside billiards industry sponsorship to get outside sponsorship. That would be like saying that the most often seen sponsor for football and basketball is sports gear manufacturers. What you need is general interest in watching the sport on TV.
 

Snap9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree to disagree. LOL

Jaden said:
It's not necesary to get inside billiards industry sponsorship to get outside sponsorship. That would be like saying that the most often seen sponsor for football and basketball is sports gear manufacturers. What you need is general interest in watching the sport on TV.


Actually Jaden, In the early years of both football and basketball sponsorship came from uniform, equiptment and shoe manufacturers. Now in past 30 some odd yrs sponsorship has come from outside their respective industries.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
exactly...

Snap9 said:
Actually Jaden, In the early years of both football and basketball sponsorship came from uniform, equiptment and shoe manufacturers. Now in past 30 some odd yrs sponsorship has come from outside their respective industries.


Just like pool now, and just like pool now, the players made almost nothing and barely enough to survive on. It wasn't until they showed that many people on TV would watch it and drew corporate sponsorship that they started to really succeed. That is what we need for pool, it didn't matter if the sports manufacturers were willing to invest some more, it wouldn;t have been enough. It is the same thing with pool. It is not the manufacturers that we need, although I do agree that they need to invest more in pool, it is the corporate sponsors and we need something to draw them in.
 

Jimk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool needs a benefactor. Someone like Kevin Trudeau, only more realistic about how to manage a pro tour. Players need to be squeaky clean and seen as likeable people. Have you heard of any lady pros playing 24 hour gambling sessions? Pool is still associated with the hustle. Tell anyone you are a player and the first thing they say is, "Oh, you're a hustler." All proffesional sports are involved in community projects and charity, except pool. We are seen as people who will cut your wallet out of your pants while you are asleep.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
This is exactly true...

Jimk said:
Pool needs a benefactor. Someone like Kevin Trudeau, only more realistic about how to manage a pro tour. Players need to be squeaky clean and seen as likeable people. Have you heard of any lady pros playing 24 hour gambling sessions? Pool is still associated with the hustle. Tell anyone you are a player and the first thing they say is, "Oh, you're a hustler." All proffesional sports are involved in community projects and charity, except pool. We are seen as people who will cut your wallet out of your pants while you are asleep.

People at work see how I play and in conversation we my playing in the occasional pro tournament gets brought up, the value of my cues etc, and even though I hardly ever play for money, I'll hear them refer to me as the hustler, shark, etc... Unfortunately that is the image of pool by the general public and until that changes I think it will be difficult to get corporate sponsorship.
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike, I am probably the most computer illiterate person on the planet.
I may very well have quoted you from another thread, does that
matter, if it was something you said ? I have allready said I admire
what you're trying to do for our sport. Just because we don't always
agree on how to approach that end, should not make us adversaries!
Lets start over again and see if we can't get along better.
Regards,
Dick
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SJDinPHX said:
Mike, I am probably the most computer illiterate person on the planet.
I may very well have quoted you from another thread, does that
matter, if it was something you said ? I have allready said I admire
what you're trying to do for our sport. Just because we don't always
agree on how to approach that end, should not make us adversaries!
Lets start over again and see if we can't get along better.
Regards,
Dick
I think I screwed up again trying to edit. Forgot to push quote button.Oh well, hope you accept this as my public explanation
of our miscommunications.
 
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MikeJanis

Banned
SJDinPHX said:
I think I screwed up again trying to edit. Forgot to push quote button.Oh well, hope you accept this as my public explanation
of our miscommunications.


OK, me to. As Scooby Doo sais,,,,,,rorry
 

Big Bad Bern

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe that pool is facing an extremely difficult challenge currently, rising cost of business combined with stagnent wage rates is making running a successful pool room very difficult and especially some place large enough to hold proper proffessional tournaments. This has neccesitated the use of casino's and hotels for tournament venues and driven up the cost of events, making it much harder for promoters to turn a profit (Glass City open) or at least not loose money.

I think that an alternate location idea is neccessary and I propose Golf courses, their are thousands of them all over the country and most have to contend with 4-6 month off seasons due to inclement wheather. I am sure if they were approached with the idea as a secondary source of revenue and a way to keep their patrons and members comming there through the winter, as well as bringing in new faces and members who might never set foot on a golf course otherwise, and it would expose pool to new people and lend legitimacy to our game and make possible a viable Pro Tour and Qualifying Tours from which to graduate to the Pro Tour. Also weekly league play from various agencies (APA, BCA, VNEA, TAP etc. or one run by tour organinzers) would be a way for golf course profits to be increased as well as subsidizing the various tours.

Think about it most golf courses are already equiped to provided food and beverages, and have plenty of parking and the list could go on.

Just my opinion, I am interested to hear others.

Bern
 

MikeJanis

Banned
Big Bad Bern said:
I believe that pool is facing an extremely difficult challenge currently, rising cost of business combined with stagnent wage rates is making running a successful pool room very difficult and especially some place large enough to hold proper proffessional tournaments. This has neccesitated the use of casino's and hotels for tournament venues and driven up the cost of events, making it much harder for promoters to turn a profit (Glass City open) or at least not loose money.

I think that an alternate location idea is neccessary and I propose Golf courses, their are thousands of them all over the country and most have to contend with 4-6 month off seasons due to inclement wheather. I am sure if they were approached with the idea as a secondary source of revenue and a way to keep their patrons and members comming there through the winter, as well as bringing in new faces and members who might never set foot on a golf course otherwise, and it would expose pool to new people and lend legitimacy to our game and make possible a viable Pro Tour and Qualifying Tours from which to graduate to the Pro Tour. Also weekly league play from various agencies (APA, BCA, VNEA, TAP etc. or one run by tour organinzers) would be a way for golf course profits to be increased as well as subsidizing the various tours.

Think about it most golf courses are already equiped to provided food and beverages, and have plenty of parking and the list could go on.

Just my opinion, I am interested to hear others.

Bern

The Golf course idea is a great idea as an option. However, one of the main reasons events go to ball rooms, casino's and convention centers is the main reason they wouldn't be successful at golf courses.

Reason: Convenience of having an attached / combined hotel for the venue.

Any idea is a good idea so please keep the coming. Mj
 

Big Bad Bern

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know in the midwest and Canada(where I am from) hotels near golf courses could be a problem, but there seems to be an abundance of courses in the Carolina's, Florida, California, Georgia, Arizona and I am sure many other places that have hotels on site for the Pro tour events, and as far as the qualifying tours and such, players are used to driving and finding hotels near the venue for events such as yours held currently in pool rooms that they would continue to do so for the promise of prize money and a shot to work their way on to the Pro Tour.

If the smaller events in non resorts courses were shown to be profitable this could be used as leverage for negotiating with big resorts with the bonus to both sides of players staying on site and hopefully TV if not at least internet coverage and promotion of the course.

More thoughts form me.

Bern

P.S. nice to talk to you Mike I hope to someday play one of your events.
 

MikeJanis

Banned
Big Bad Bern said:
I know in the midwest and Canada(where I am from) hotels near golf courses could be a problem, but there seems to be an abundance of courses in the Carolina's, Florida, California, Georgia, Arizona and I am sure many other places that have hotels on site for the Pro tour events, and as far as the qualifying tours and such, players are used to driving and finding hotels near the venue for events such as yours held currently in pool rooms that they would continue to do so for the promise of prize money and a shot to work their way on to the Pro Tour.

If the smaller events in non resorts courses were shown to be profitable this could be used as leverage for negotiating with big resorts with the bonus to both sides of players staying on site and hopefully TV if not at least internet coverage and promotion of the course.

More thoughts form me.

Bern

P.S. nice to talk to you Mike I hope to someday play one of your events.


I have been sitting here negatively thinking about why Golf courses are bad ideas (I'm 1/2 asleep and had a bad day so you could say I'm grumpy). Anyway, so I'm sitting here with these negative thoughts about the GC idea and trying to think of a nice way to tell you it wont work < That sure was a waste of my time.


Then it hit me, you might really be on to something here. Not for the reasons you meant but for many other ones. Putting pool tables in Golf Course bars, club houses or even adding a pool room at their facilities is a great idea. This would expose many of the people (market segments) to the game. It might even inspire (heck, it will inspire) a few people to buy tables and the needed equipment for their houses. Maybe even 1 day we will hear about how all those big CO's made the new revolutionary idea over a game of pool instead of golf because it was storming outside.

I wish I had time to explore the potentials of this. I really hope somebody picks up on the idea. Maybe those guys in the thread about quitting their current job for a pool related job.

Dang !,, I hate it when I have to pass up million dollar ideas. Somebody please pick up this idea.

Mj, thinks that the BIG billiard industry manufactures, specifically the table guys should get booth space at Golf Industry Conventions and sell'em the idea.


Thanks for the inspiration Bern,

Mj
 
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john schmidt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
support the supporters of pool.

one thing i think would help is if people when they buy products do it from the companies who support pro pool.there is a hundred billiard supply stores on the internet but only a few who put any money into the pro tour.we all basically know who those are.so when your buying from them feel free to tell them i came to you because you support pool.simonis cloth puts good money into many tourneys ,platinum billiards supply,ozone billiards,seyberts billiards,brunswick,super aramith balls,diamond,muellers,ob1etc,etc.anyway if people support them they will continue to support pool.and i appreciate that as many other players do.lets quit buying from china and buy from our american companies .just a thought ,take care everbody john schmidt
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A lot of Country Clubs have very nice Pool Tables. Having been a Golf Professional for a few years at Colonial CC in Ft Worth, I can say this might be a possibility. Not a sure thing, but a possibility. Any Tournament would probably be held in the Ball Room, where there is sometimes more than ample room. There would have to be an admission charge to any & all who attend (including the players). Maybe the news media would cover the event. Because the event is being held in the local social club, the location & attending socialites would have it's perks. Several of these events, held across the USA would bring up the image of our Sport.

There will have to be a strict Dress Code (it won't hurt the players to wear some nice clothes), a behavior restraint (acting civil & respectful might be carried back to the Pool Room) & obvious good sportsmanship. There will be some CC members who will attend & they will be watching...

We have large tournaments at the Casinos & those rules apply. Any breach is automatic dismissal. We also have some great Calcuttas, the gambling fever runs deep at a Casinos. CC members like to gamble too, they also like to watch competition in it's highest form. Most Muni-courses are not suitable for this kind of venue. Smoking & alcohol of any form might not be available. I dunno...

Staging some events like this would be fun to do & great to attend.
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good POST from John Scmidt. Cheapskates abound, don't they. Pool Gear is bought on the internet, traded under the nose of Pro Shops & any talk of a Tournament cover charge is met with a "are you kidding me" (but they will pay $50 for football ticket & be eager to get seated to order some $5 beer & $5 hot dogs).

Professional Pool is NOT going to be supported solely by some deep pocket sponsor. There will be an admission charge, the beer will be $4 a cup, liquor will be $5 for a small glass, a hot dog will be $6, steaks will be $30 and so on, but the event will become an extravaganza. Calcuttas will go through the roof. Quality Pool Gear will be sold & side line lessons can be had.

But, the players & companions who attend will have to spend some money, or the event will be a one time "flash in the pan". Money brings out the interest in everyone. When players, retailers, sponsors & event producers start spending some real entertainment money, things will change for the good.
 
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edd

Trance Doc
Silver Member
There is some credence, I believe, to the exposure that can be generated by a good movie. Mr. Sorvino are you out there?
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
MikeJanis said:
Joey, if you write it well enough your commission will be immortality. I give you permission as a parent (will that work) I think its the highest most important authority I have so it should be ok.

You already seem to have an idea of what the guide book should say, now all you have to do is put in in writing. I'd bet you could hav an outline done in 1-2 days. Once you get it together start a thread here on AZ. Maybe put in in the test forum to keep it a secret then invite respected players and industry members from AZ to review and add suggestion at their convenience. After that I would say it would take about a week or two to complete. It won't need published in book for because I am sure we/you could just put it on the net somewhere or everywhere. I would help out in any way I can.

Mj

It has taken a little more than 1-2 days :eek: but THE CODE OF CONDUCT For Professional Pool Players is completed (Beta Version). It was a collaboration between Doug Gordon and myself. It is in a word document format attachment. If some of you can't view the document attached I will change it to text in another post in the thread "CODE OF CONDUCT". Let me know in that thread. Thanks.

Special thanks to Jerry Forsythe for the this thread and Mike Janis for encouraging me to write it.

JoeyA
 
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