Probably beating a dead horse here but have to ask......

ForumGhost516

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It seems as of late that Jack Justis has been doing a lot of posting in the main forum explaining different things in what would appear to be a defensive standpoint.

I cant for the life of me understand why this would be. This is a more than valued trusted member of this forum but probably one of the if not the most prominent custom case maker in the world. I have had the pleasure of meeting Jack in person now at Valley Forge multiple times and speaking with him on the phone and he has been nothing but a stand up guy and very pleasant to deal with.

I cant possibly see someone calling his integrity or reputation into question.

What is going on?


THanks
 
shinobi said:
I may never understand why JJ resists putting a $2 piece of padding at the bottom of his case. It seems like a no-brainer. I can't think of a single downside.
Click to expand...



i agree, i dont like my cue sliding up and down inside the case as far as it does. I know that if its in there tight that can compermise the cue, some play is necessary-but not to the extent it is in Jacks cases. Jack is a wonderful guy, amazingly talented and smart-I like JJ alot. But he dosent seem to flexable on his design ideas.


My biz partner is like that sometimes, if he didnt think of it, it didnt happen. My biz partner awalys has come up with every solution for every problem we have ever had(in his own mind) It is impossible for him "Hmmm I was wrong" He litterly can't and wont admit to being wrong, he changes the subject, goes bat $hit crazy. etc. When I point out his mistake.

He is hardwired into thinking his way and thats that. Or he will concede that we came up with the idea together. I cant explain why some people think the way they do. I just stick to my program.


I'm of the school the answere is usually in the middle and being wrong is a wonderful learning oppertunity. Thats how I see it. Everyones different and that makes things interesting.

best
eric:smile:
 
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ForumGhost516 said:
It seems as of late that Jack Justis has been doing a lot of posting in the main forum explaining different things in what would appear to be a defensive standpoint.

I cant for the life of me understand why this would be. This is a more than valued trusted member of this forum but probably one of the if not the most prominent custom case maker in the world. I have had the pleasure of meeting Jack in person now at Valley Forge multiple times and speaking with him on the phone and he has been nothing but a stand up guy and very pleasant to deal with.

I cant possibly see someone calling his integrity or reputation into question.

What is going on?


THanks
Click to expand...

I will answer this as succinctly as I can since I am the antagonist here.

Jack Justis and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to how to build a case.

Because of that Jack gets offended every time I claim that our case provides better protection than his.

Now that in and of itself is a simple fact.

Where this gets complicated is that Jack made a false accusation of design theft of his cases against me two years ago. Then he proceeded to enter into a deeper partnership with a company that is in fact the largest design thieves in the world when it comes to cue cases.

So then Jack has followed up the false accusations with more lies and more snide remarks and I have had enough.

Yes, he is a well regarded member of the forum. He makes a nice product.

But as a person who has lied by omission to his customers for years, who is partners with the largest design theives in the cue case business, and who out right lies about his competition he is not well regarded by me and I have had enough.

I gave Mr. Justis the choice to leave me alone in return for giving him the same courtesy. I told him that if he stayed away from threads about my cases then I would do the same for him.

Mr. Justis elected not to do that and continued with the snide remarks and so the consequence is that he will need to defend his concept of what makes a good case down to the last nail.

The losers will be myself and Mr. Justis.

The winners will be the consumer who will get to see and read about cue cases in more detail than ever before. Then the consumer can cut through the hype on both sides and decide for themselves which case provides the best value for them.

And personally I hope that when I am done then this will be the closure I need to just put Jack Justis and his method behind me. But if not then I will fight for what I feel is right until he decides to leave me alone. Jack started this on AZ and I intend to finish it here.
 
Let it go !

John,
I think you would be well served to let it go and be the bigger man in this.
It just makes you look bad, and from reading your posts in the past I always have respected your opinion whether I agreeded or not.

I like your cases and Jack's, but don't take this the wrong way but both
of you have now gone outside of the U.S.A. and I respect your right to do so. But i'll never buy another case made oversea's, it's just a sell out !

But I will stick to Whitten's(own 3) and Ron Thomas (own 3)
My next case will be a Jim Murnak and other American made cases in the
future.

It's not worth ruining your reputation doing this on a public forum. JMHO

Doc
 
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eh, i have read through the threads for the past few days ... and from reading the comments from each ... and seeing the various photos ... all it has made me .. was want to buy a JB case ... but i lack the funds ...

yes there is some arrogance in the posts ... but with a quality product that normally follows suit.
 
jack is just old and set in his ways and is not willing to listen to alot of his customers, which is sad. I feel that if Jack would listen to alot of great people on here, I feel he may have the better case. But, that is not the case at all.

Jack makes a great case, no question there, but his ignorance in listening to alot of people practically begging him to just add a little more protection for thier cues reminds me of an arrogant man that cannot take constructive critisism. There is ALWAYS something you can do to improve on a design, and JJ cases can be improved upon.

BOTH casemakers can improve on thier design, and JB is willing to listen to customers, where JJ is not.

Arguing with JJ is like arguing with a turd.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
War of Words, by Casemakers.

Think the Waring Parties should talk about why their Case is better, and not TRASH the other Casemakers Case.

Just my $.02
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According to Jack Justis's statements I am not even allowed to do that.

He has stated that when I simply state that our cases provide the best protection then I am denigrating his case and all others by default.

So I guess the only thing I am allowed to do according to Jack is to try to win the beauty contest by posting pictures with nothing about any features which distinguish us from the rest.

And to further keep up with the Jones I should start having to give away cases to pro players again and start using their names as if I was actually doing something for them.

Hell I am behind on the one frigging commitment I made to a Pro friend earlier this year. I don't have time or desire to go out and give cases to all the pros and then shamelessly use their names as if I were dong something to really help them.

It's so one sided - Jack gives cases away to people who could literally give a shit less what case they use - who is going to turn down a free pretty case with their name on it??? The pro gets ZERO MONEY to help them get down the road or pay entry fees or any help at all. Jack takes the case back after the first year and sells it at an obscene price. I mean it's freaking great for him but it's a lousy deal for the pro player.

I refuse to do that.

If I sponsor a pro then I will sponsor them with money or product to sell or not use their name in advertisements.

I could make a list of pros that I have given cases to that is longer than Jack's and with more bonafide champions on it. These are people I didn't pay to use our cases and they did use our cases for years.

But I have adopted the old cuemaker Wayne Gunn's philosophy on this, "we don't pay players to use our products, if you see a player using our products, they paid us".

When I give a case to a player it's because I respect that player as a friend and a fan. Not because I want to use them. If I want to use them then I will make an agreement with them that gets them PAID for using their name.

Most businesses compare products in some way or another. If pointing out the things that aren't good about the competitor's product is trashing them then so be it. I find that when a company does that then it makes me look at what they say about the competitor to see if it's true AND it makes me look harder at the company who is doing the trashing to see how good their stuff really is.

So it goes both ways I think. If someone criticizes then they invite criticism.

I am ready for it. (before you start though I want to make the disclaimer that I already know I spend too much time here and not enough designing. - working on that! )

Sincerely,

John Barton - Case maker.
 
Barry Doc said:
John,
I think you would be well served to let it go and be the bigger man in this.
It just makes you look bad, and from reading your posts in the past I always have respected your opinion whether I agreeded or not.

I like your cases and Jack's, but don't take this the wrong way but both
of you have now gone outside of the U.S.A. and I respect your right to do so. But i'll never buy another case made oversea's, it's just a sell out !

But I will stick to Whitten's(own 3) and Ron Thomas (own 3)
My next case will be a Jim Murnak and other American made cases in the
future.

It's not worth ruining your reputation doing this on a public forum. JMHO

Doc
Click to expand...

Your post is well taken and I completely concur. Just to clear up one small point. My cases have never been made in the USA. I started out in my attic in Germany and moved to the basement and for several year I made the cases in Germany and when we moved to mass production that was done in the Czech Republic. At one point I moved to the USA to open a distribution center and about a year or so thereafter some production was started in Taiwan.

I sold my stake in Instroke in 2003 and since then the cases are being made in the Czech Republic and in Taiwan.

Now I live in China and my JB Cases are made here. I do understand your sentiment even if I don't agree with the premise. There are many many great case makers working in the USA to choose from so you are covered there fully.

Beyond those you list are Dennis Swift, Brian Bonner, Rusty Melton, Garth Bair, Marc Turcasso, and a few others who all make great products that provide super value, adequate to great protection, and are good people to deal with. I wouldn't hesitate to send you to any one of them.

Thank you for the advice. I fear that I have already gone well past the point where I can take it. So I will have to see this through and move on at that point.
 
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Whom may I ask,
I could make a list of pros that I have given cases to that is longer than Jack's and with more bonafide champions on it. These are people I didn't pay to use our cases and they did use our cases for years.

Glen
 
nasc said:
Whom may I ask,
I could make a list of pros that I have given cases to that is longer than Jack's and with more bonafide champions on it. These are people I didn't pay to use our cases and they did use our cases for years.

Glen
Click to expand...

Efren Reyes 2x
Francisco Bustamante 2x
Oliver Ortmann 1x
Ralf Souquet - was actually sponsored. Still uses an Instroke I think.
Allen Hopkins - 1x
Jimmy Reid - 1x
Nick Varner - 1x
Johnny Archer 1x
Buddy Hall 1x
Reed Pierce 1x
Earl Strickland 1x
Grady Mathews 1x
Rafael Martinez 1x
Shawn Putnam 1x
Allison Fisher 1x
Belinda Beardon (now Calhoun) 2x
Dawn Meurin (now Hopkins) 1x
Sarah Ellerby 1x
Mike Massey AND Mike and Francine's Massey's dog. (Yes I made a case to carry their dog in).
Maureen Seto - Canadian Champion 1x


Those are the ones off the top of my head. I am sure more will come to me later.

And I forgot to mention that many many world class players over the years outright bought our cases and I would often give them significant discounts just because they were pro-speed. They wanted the case for free but they paid.

I am pretty confident that the number of Instroke cases in use among world class players far outnumbers the amount of Justis cases and the percentage of players who ACTUALLY BOUGHT their Instroke is far greater than the number of world class player who use a Justis and paid for it. Of course I can't possibly verify that without some serious effort but I am pretty sure that it's true.
 
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I look foward to seeing this video.

I have never used either case JB or JJ.

Here is the link to the cases I use http://castilloleathergoods.com/ They just started making hard cases, and soon I think the name will speak for itself.

Yes, I am totally ambushing this thread...lol

Another Guy that is doing crazy good art on cases is Nester...he works for Stealth cues, and is making some really nice stuff, look for this guy's work..hand carved leather is what he is doing...stained they look very cool, and unique. You can tell when he made it.

My favorite cases in the world are the Shark Cases I am having trouble thinking of the guys name...these are just awsome cases...Mike Massey has a couple of them and Jeanette Lee has one as well...I wish I had a link. Hand crafted from woods they are a work of art built to look like a shark.
 
This pretty much explains my current feelings on the topic...
 

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Shark Cases

JamisonNeu said:
I look foward to seeing this video.

I have never used either case JB or JJ.

Here is the link to the cases I use http://castilloleathergoods.com/ They just started making hard cases, and soon I think the name will speak for itself.

Yes, I am totally ambushing this thread...lol

Another Guy that is doing crazy good art on cases is Nester...he works for Stealth cues, and is making some really nice stuff, look for this guy's work..hand carved leather is what he is doing...stained they look very cool, and unique. You can tell when he made it.

My favorite cases in the world are the Shark Cases I am having trouble thinking of the guys name...these are just awsome cases...Mike Massey has a couple of them and Jeanette Lee has one as well...I wish I had a link. Hand crafted from woods they are a work of art built to look like a shark.
Click to expand...

The shark cases are made by Mel Larsen of Florida. I have two of them, one a hammerhead style.

Will Prout
 
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