Problem leather wrap ...

[WilleeCue]

A fella brought his cue and a leather wrap he bought from somewhere ... Atlas I think.
Wanted it installed.

It is textured black leather.
I noticed when I cut it the leather, the center was lighter grayish color and the black polished surface looked like a coating on top.
When I installed the wrap some rubber cement got on the top coating around the seam and when I rubbed the leather with my thumbs to smooth the seam down the leather scuffed up in some spots exposing the light grey leather under it.
This is the first time I have ever seen that happen to leather just using my thumbs.

Anyhow, my question to all you that are more experienced in leather wraps is what product will restore the black polished look to the scuffed spots.
I was thinking Scuff Coat but I thought I better ask first before really screwing this job up.

A photo is worth a thousand words so here are two.

 

[hangemhigh]

From the looks of it you would be better off starting over. I don't think anything will completely restore it for any length of time. I have had limited success with Tandy Super Sheen in similar situations.

 

[Tony Zinzola]

I think the biggest problem is the wrap. A good quality wrap is much easier to install than the cheap ones that Atlas sells.

 

[WilleeCue]

I think the biggest problem is the wrap. A good quality wrap is much easier to install than the cheap ones that Atlas sells.

Tony, I think you are right.
Hangemhigh ... I hate start overs! But looks like this might be one of them.

What a cheap piece of leather.
If it cant take the rubbing from my thumbs during installation how can it stand up to a year or so of playing.
I knew it looked different than the others I have used.
Looked like the black was a sprayed on coating of some sort.
The lighter colored center was different also.
At first I thought it was just some rubber cement on the leather.
No big deal just rub it off.
The more I rubbed ... the bigger the spot got.
Now I will know what to look for if someone else ever brings his own leather.
I Hate Do Overs! ... :angry: ...

 

[JoeyInCali]

Tony, I think you are right.
Hangemhigh ... I hate start overs! But looks like this might be one of them.

What a cheap piece of leather.
If it cant take the rubbing from my thumbs during installation how can it stand up to a year or so of playing.
I knew it looked different than the others I have used.
Looked like the black was a sprayed on coating of some sort.
The lighter colored center was different also.
At first I thought it was just some rubber cement on the leather.
No big deal just rub it off.
The more I rubbed ... the bigger the spot got.
Now I will know what to look for if someone else ever brings his own leather.
I Hate Do Overs! ... :angry: ...

Why not take it out and send it back ?

 

[cuewould]

poor quality

This may be the wrong time to ask this ...but....Who eats the do over???? Not you I hope ....I'v had do over for dinner a few times .....I'ts always nasty.....Good luck Willy.....Ray

 

[jazznpool]

Just a suggestion Willee. I've found some contact cements are more aggressive on wrap topcoats than others. I have not seen any problems with Durabond "Duravulk" or Topbond (Tiger Products). I also recommend the thinner so you can replace solvent lost when can is open for work.

I also second the Tandy Super Shene suggestion made by Tommy, giving the wrap area 2 or 3 light coats in between several hours drying time.

Martin

A fella brought his cue and a leather wrap he bought from somewhere ... Atlas I think.
Wanted it installed.

It is textured black leather.
I noticed when I cut it the leather, the center was lighter grayish color and the black polished surface looked like a coating on top.
When I installed the wrap some rubber cement got on the top coating around the seam and when I rubbed the leather with my thumbs to smooth the seam down the leather scuffed up in some spots exposing the light grey leather under it.
This is the first time I have ever seen that happen to leather just using my thumbs.

Anyhow, my question to all you that are more experienced in leather wraps is what product will restore the black polished look to the scuffed spots.
I was thinking Scuff Coat but I thought I better ask first before really screwing this job up.

A photo is worth a thousand words so here are two.

 

[Tony Zinzola]

It's not really Atlas's fault the wrap sucks, nor is it the customers. I'm sure the customer had no idea what he was buying. I have a drawer full of those cheap wraps and I have never been able to put one on and make it look perfect. Maybe it's just me. The backs of the things look like they could use a shave.

Unfortunately, they are cheap, so most guys starting out probably buy them, making it a lot harder to do a good wrap than it really is.

For roughly the same price you can get some of the Bison wraps that Martin sells. They seam up nice and are very easy to work with. The customers like them too. You don't need to spend a fortune to get a quality wrap, but the cheap ones from Atlas are just that. They are cheap and they are junk.

 

[WilleeCue]

Why not take it out and send it back ?

Joey, Would it really be worth the time and trouble?
What would they replace it with ... another piece like it?

Cuewould ... Ray, Being the craftsman who installed it I would eat the cost of the new wrap.
I could leave it like it is, try to repair it, or replace it with a better piece of leather.
From the standpoint of having my work evaluated at by others I would be better off replacing it and writing off the cost rather than leaving it and explaining why it looks like it does to the customer.
Having a flawed looking wrap out there will reflect more on me than the supplier of the leather.
I think in the morning I will rip it off and ... uggh ... do it over.
I have a lot of quality leather wraps in the stock drawer that I bought a few years ago.
I am sure there is something in there that will come close to matching the pattern of this wrap.

Tony ... you are absolutely correct.
The money saved by trying to cut costs is sometimes a foolish move that costs you much more.
I doubt the fella that bought this wrap gave it much thought or was even aware there was a difference in quality.
The top coating is so thin I doubt it would have looked good for very long even if it had went on without problems.

 

[scdiveteam]

A fella brought his cue and a leather wrap he bought from somewhere ... Atlas I think.
Wanted it installed.

It is textured black leather.
I noticed when I cut it the leather, the center was lighter grayish color and the black polished surface looked like a coating on top.
When I installed the wrap some rubber cement got on the top coating around the seam and when I rubbed the leather with my thumbs to smooth the seam down the leather scuffed up in some spots exposing the light grey leather under it.
This is the first time I have ever seen that happen to leather just using my thumbs.

Anyhow, my question to all you that are more experienced in leather wraps is what product will restore the black polished look to the scuffed spots.
I was thinking Scuff Coat but I thought I better ask first before really screwing this job up.

A photo is worth a thousand words so here are two.

Hi,

How about some Black Kiwi Shoe Polish and a spit shine.

Rick G

 

[WilleeCue]

Hi,

How about some Black Kiwi Shoe Polish and a spit shine.

Rick G

Rick, I will try a few things today as an experiment but I am fairly sure this is going to be replaced with something of better quality.
Even if I can polish it up it may not wear very well in use.
I need to talk to the fella about it as I dont want others looking at that wrap a few months from now and thinking I did a bad job on it.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

Leather Wraps

I have had to replace a number of wraps because of bad leather over the years. That's one of the reasons leather wraps cost more than Irish linen wraps. Lots of trial and "oh my God that stuff is junk". It takes time, money and experience just to find a supplier of quality materials.

I have had to refuse to use materials supplied by customers because of the bad quality.

 

[hangemhigh]

That's one of the reasons leather wraps cost more than Irish linen wraps.

Interestingly it seems that what was up is now down. You are exactly right that Leather wraps are more expensive than Linen. It occurs to me that over the last few years we have seen more Leather and wrapless cues though, I believe because of the fact that it is easier to do those than Linen wraps. Wrapless you have only to finish the cue, Leather you just have to get the seam right, both call for less labor. The learning curve for Linen is much longer and to get one looking as good as Leather or wrapless requires much more experience.

Leather wraps should cost more, if as was pointed out, you use a high quality piece and install it perfectly. It has flipped as newer cue makers find it easier to do well than Linen. Add a cheap piece and you can get the costs down comparable to Linen wraps without having to learn how to do Linen.

 

[cueman]

Interestingly it seems that what was up is now down. You are exactly right that Leather wraps are more expensive than Linen. It occurs to me that over the last few years we have seen more Leather and wrapless cues though, I believe because of the fact that it is easier to do those than Linen wraps. Wrapless you have only to finish the cue, Leather you just have to get the seam right, both call for less labor. The learning curve for Linen is much longer and to get one looking as good as Leather or wrapless requires much more experience.

Leather wraps should cost more, if as was pointed out, you use a high quality piece and install it perfectly. It has flipped as newer cue makers find it easier to do well than Linen. Add a cheap piece and you can get the costs down comparable to Linen wraps without having to learn how to do Linen.

I am guessing you have not done many linen wraps since you think they are harder than leather. The learning curve for leather is much longer than for linen. When working with linen it is pretty much the same all the time. With leather it can vary all over the place form one piece to another how to install it. One stretches more than another. One seams easily and another does not. One cuts through clean and another does not. one is thicker than another. Aometimes the thickness can vary. That is just with embossed leathers. Now go over into exotics and you have opened another can or worms entirely. Maybe your experiences are different as maybe you have only installed one type of leather over and over with a fixture and it was the same everytime. But in the cuemakers world of using different skins I don't think you will find that the case.

 

[Piercyexclusive]

Hey man if you want a wrap I'll do it for free for you I'll even give you a new leather piece on me just post a review. Call me 601-818-3148 any time. It's free offers stand till Tuesday after that I'll be busy.

 

[hangemhigh]

I am guessing you have not done many linen wraps since you think they are harder than leather. The learning curve for leather is much longer than for linen. When working with linen it is pretty much the same all the time. With leather it can vary all over the place form one piece to another how to install it. One stretches more than another. One seams easily and another does not. One cuts through clean and another does not. one is thicker than another. Aometimes the thickness can vary. That is just with embossed leathers. Now go over into exotics and you have opened another can or worms entirely. Maybe your experiences are different as maybe you have only installed one type of leather over and over with a fixture and it was the same everytime. But in the cuemakers world of using different skins I don't think you will find that the case.

Do them all, and Lizard is the hardest for me. Your experience is more vast than mine, but the trend speaks for it's self, do you disagree? The majority of new cue makers I see use leather wraps long before Linen, just my observation of the current trend. I did not say they did them perfectly, but I do assert that it is easier for them to do Leather or wrap-less over Linen.

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

A fella brought his cue and a leather wrap he bought from somewhere ... Atlas I think.
Wanted it installed.

It is textured black leather.
I noticed when I cut it the leather, the center was lighter grayish color and the black polished surface looked like a coating on top.
When I installed the wrap some rubber cement got on the top coating around the seam and when I rubbed the leather with my thumbs to smooth the seam down the leather scuffed up in some spots exposing the light grey leather under it.
This is the first time I have ever seen that happen to leather just using my thumbs.

Anyhow, my question to all you that are more experienced in leather wraps is what product will restore the black polished look to the scuffed spots.
I was thinking Scuff Coat but I thought I better ask first before really screwing this job up.

A photo is worth a thousand words so here are two.

Hey Will,

Why not use this as a learning mistake? Leave damage leather on the cue and try SUPER SHENE or SHINNY BLACK LEATHER SPRAY from Tandy leather. If you use spray make sure mask the forearm and butt sleeve. light mist spray at least 12 inches away from cue handle. worst come to worst replace with good quality leather. I my self don't like to use customer supply leather or skin.

Kenny

 

[cueman]

Do them all, and Lizard is the hardest for me. Your experience is more vast than mine, but the trend speaks for it's self, do you disagree? The majority of new cue makers I see use leather wraps long before Linen, just my observation of the current trend. I did not say they did them perfectly, but I do assert that it is easier for them to do Leather or wrap-less over Linen.

Linen has lost some popularity among buyers, so since leather and wrapless is more popular that is why I think we see some beginners learning leather first. They do repairs and very few want linen so they learn to do what they can make money at. So you are right that there are new cuemakers who can't do linen at all or at least learn leather first, but linen is much easier to master. Butterfly points are easier to master than v-grooves with veneers, but in years past few mastered the butterflies because they were not popular. Now they are getting more popular and more are mastering them. It is just people giving priority to learning how to do what the market wants.

 

[hangemhigh]

Linen has lost some popularity among buyers, so since leather and wrapless is more popular that is why I think we see some beginners learning leather first. They do repairs and very few want linen so they learn to do what they can make money at. So you are right that there are new cuemakers who can't do linen at all or at least learn leather first, but linen is much easier to master. Butterfly points are easier to master than v-grooves with veneers, but in years past few mastered the butterflies because they were not popular. Now they are getting more popular and more are mastering them. It is just people giving priority to learning how to do what the market wants.

With all the Leather wrap jigs available today they have become a breeze to install, making them easier than Linen, IMO. The result is that Leather wraps no longer command the higher price they once did. You can even get exotics for a lot less than a decade ago.

 

[WilleeCue]

Gentlemen: I appreciate the problems that you have installing inferior leather wraps. I sell only the finest leather wrap blanks and carry a complete line at my web site: www.CastilloLeatherGoods.com

Visit my site, check out my leather wraps. I sell them in singles, so that you can buy (commit to) only one and try it our.

Of course, I also offer the unique Cue Tattoo .... a signifcant variant of the classic leather wrap.

Thanks. I appreciate your consideration and don't mean to hijack this thread.

No problem Gill and thanks for the link to your site.