Problem with gambling

back in the 80s it wasn't uncommon for two players to play for three straight days.

good post Joey A.
Posts like these should warn those who may "consider" gambling for what it really is!

Without going into a long editorial here, GAMBLING is a Vice!

Before going further, people need to know there is a difference between gambling and hustling.

"Gambling" is an unknown outcome based on a certain set of "odds" or probabilities.
"hustling" is an unknown outcome with the odds looking even,BUT the probabilities are in the favor of the hustler. BTW Casinos fit into this category.

That said: I normally don't gamble. I play money games only because it makes the play official. There are 2 outcomes: I may win,.... I may lose.

When I was a kid; I use to "hustle" cheap games in bars. Hey, It was a sure way to make money. Most of my "victims" were guys from the bar that were 1/2 drunk and thought they could beat "a kid" having fun at the table. The best was when hustlers wanted to "hustle" me !! Then it became "gambling" :grin:

I am not even going to go into people and emotions/reasons for "gambling" there are too many reasons to list. People are people, and sometimes it isn't pretty. (One should read a few of CJ Wiley's road stories: They are classic!!!) :eek:

The law here in Texas has pool listed as a "game of skill" and it's only gambling if you're betting on the side...or making "side bets".

When I was traveling with Big John, Omaha John and JR Weldon we'd sometimes go years and not book a loser.....we had to play really well, but it's hard to say we were really gambling.

Over time the best player will win, and sometimes this takes 20 straight hours.....and back in the 80s it wasn't uncommon for two players to play for three straight days.
 
I've always liked Grady but sometimes I think he never quit understood probability when it came to casino games. Craps is a negative expectation game. In other words, your not going to win in the long run. I've personally witnessed a craps player over a period of 2 years destroy the casino that I worked at playing the don't. He was very savvy and would never lose more than 2 bets on a single shooter. Strong bankroll management and didn't chase loses. But, he was still at a disadvantage. Everyone thought he had this system. If he wasn't cheating, the odds would eventually catch up to him.

A new casino opened down the road and offered 20X odds. It didn't take him a month to lose the 200 grand he was up on our casino. I've seen some incredible rolls that "defy" logic but eventually if you play long enough the house advantage will get you.

A smart dont player, but he made the same fatal mistake that most crapshooters make, they see the 20 x, or 100 x free odds and they overbet their bankrolls. You cant go from a 2,3,4 odds game to 20x without seriously altering your betting strategy. What good is the free odds doing you if the dice are going the other way ? Plus the guy probably started steaming when he started to get stuck a little and common sense went out the window.
 
Thanks to everyone for the positive responses to my post , I have to admit I expected the exact opposite .
I am pleasantly surprised and must now reevaluate my thought processes, thanks a lot!
 
Thanks to everyone for the positive responses to my post , I have to admit I expected the exact opposite .
I am pleasantly surprised and must now reevaluate my thought processes, thanks a lot!

Your advice was sound. I feel sorry for those who ignore it.
 
After 50 plus years of hanging around pool rooms, card rooms, any place you could gamble, knowing big gamblers and little gamblers , smart people and suckers , Cheaters and experts
There are not many winners.
I have only seen a couple of people out of the thousands and thousands of gamblers I have met whos life style did not affect their children or family or parents in a negative way.
The worst examples were surprisingly not the losers , it was the guys who were "slick" and made money at it.
No matter how hard some of them tried , most didn't try at all , but a few did , to keep their business from their kids , eventually, the kids tried to be like dad.
Most ended up trying to fill shoes that were way bigger in their minds{and in the dads minds} than in reality and when they failed , they went to drugs, alcohol , suicide or prison, to escape.
The best gambler I ever met had three children and a wife, 2 went to prison all 4 became dope addicts and the 3 kids all died very young from drugs.
He was always very anti drugs and alcohol. {Go figure}
I used to gamble and one day I realised I didn't like the guy I was when I gambled , I started looking for that change in other people and guess what , everyone I have watched changes when they gamble, with some people it is almost imperceptable , until they get stuck real bad or get in a bad game.
It's there though if you look and listen .
Gambling is a vice and every vice has to be paid for in my mind.
If you don't pay for it , someone you know will.
One poster said he was the type gambler most people would call a nit,
He is the majority of gamblers everywhere, they hear about someone turning a toothpick into a lumberyard and chase that dream all their lives.
{ I did it too}
I chased a guy they called stutterman for almost 2 years until one day my wife said I was like a prostitute to him and the idea of winning his money, I almost got sick that she would feel that way about me.
Once I thought about it , she was right, that's exactly how I was acting.
To me , the worst that could happen is that you actually do score big.
I have seen about a dozen people in 50 years make big scores and all but 1 I know for sure ended up real bad.
I think all the one lost was his family. {to some people that is a small price to pay }.
We all have one finite resource we are born with, our time.
Everything in this world takes up your time.
We are all free to spend it however we choose for the most part.
I wish I could get back all the time I spent on barstools and in poolrooms and card rooms, I can't , so I can only hope someone younger who reads this understands what I am trying to say .
Enjoy life , there is nothing wrong with playing pool or cards or having a beer, just don't give your whole life to it like so many of us have.
When you toss the gambling illusion in there , it's just another reason to not be able to walk away.

You know that I don't like playing for fun and I know that you don't gamble anymore but you're one of the few people that I've ever played for fun and had fun...... LOL
 
that's not gambling, that's investing in the future. imho

This would be true for the majority, but I personally know of two hustlers who made a lot of cash, bought nice homes and still have money and never did anything but gamble. Well, steal would be more like it. Junior Sweatmon was one of the best rough hustlers to ever play the game, along with many flimflams, and made hundreds of thousand in Chicago in the 60's and 70's along with Detroit and Flint. He could also play some, he beat Ronnie Allen and many other top players on a barbox. Most of the time he could get champions to give him spots like the 7 and the break, where they had no chance, but most never did know his true speed.. I once watched him win over 30,000 in Tupelo.Ms at a big tournament in the 70's, with many top players and he took the cash down getting weight they couldn't outrun. He is close to 80 and still beats many of the locals when the opportunity comes up. Let me also add, he would do anything to get the money and drew no line.

I few of us got really lucky. When I look back at how much I've gambled and how lucky I was to win in some spots that was purely "outrunning the nutz," it's truly amazing.
 
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You know that I don't like playing for fun and I know that you don't gamble anymore but you're one of the few people that I've ever played for fun and had fun...... LOL

I enjoyed it too bud .
Plus I heard you landed the fish you were after later didn't you?
Heh.
 
Gambling was something that I guess I could say I grew out of. When I was young (high school and college) I gambled often and for a lot. Pool, poker, bowling, the track...all on a regular basis.

Somewhere along the way on my career I lost that high level of enjoyment I used to get from it. This was partly because when I was younger I had no responsibilities, no bills to pay to speak of, and of course that changed. But perhaps more importantly there became a disconnect between the joy of winning and the angst of losing. What I mean by that is these days, if I went to Vegas and won $5K it would of course be nice, but really it wouldn't be a big deal in that my regular monthly expenses are more than that. So it's not life changing money. But if I lost $5K, I'd be really, really pissed, knowing how hard I've worked to make that money. I'd have to win more than $50K to get as excited as losing $5K would upset me.

So the utility of winning versus losing became a complete mismatch, and with this realization went my enjoyment for heavy gambling.

Of course this doesn't mean I don't gamble, but for me it is recreation and so I stay within what keeps me comfortable. I don't indulge to the point it would become upsetting.

As far as games like pool (or golf), I enjoy playing with a little something on the light but really have no need to gamble to enjoy it. I think that is because they are games of skill so I enjoy the challenge for it's own sake. On the other hand I'd have no reason to play the slots or dice if money wasn't involved. For these kinds of activities, they only exist to gamble, winning or losing money is how you keep score.
 
Those of us who gamble know the ups and downs of gambling and if we're lucky enough, we don't have the need to chase lost money on bad bets.

I was thinking about my dad's gambling problem and who knows, maybe it wasn't a problem for him. For all I know, his gambling at the ponies could easily have occurred after his children were already gone from the nest.

My mom played bingo regularly and for her it was a little more than a pastime. After the children were all grown, she enjoyed playing bingo at least a few times per week. Once, she won what they call a black out for $50,000.00. It was a once in a lifetime accomplishment but she was sure it could happen again. Before she managed to spend the $50,000 back, I strongly encouraged her to spend several thousand dollars on making her home more comfortable for her and dad. She did as I asked, with me pulling in favors from friends, we had luxurious carpet installed, new siding and maybe even added a window a/c unit or two. Mom and dad lived frugally and the 6 children didn't expect any inheritance but I wanted to make sure that mom and dad had a nice house to live in in their remaining days and they did, despite their penchant for gambling.

The next story isn't quite so nice as it involves one of our local gamblers and pool players. We'll just call him a name I made up, "Robert". Well Robert had a job in the insurance industry and made well over a hundred thousand dollars a year back in the 70's and 80's. He was successful in his industry and could be quite persuasive when he wanted to. Another pool player who tried his hand at selling insurance with Robert, said he could hypnotize his customers with his eyes and talk. The bottom line was Robert made very good money.

Those of you who recognize "Robert", please don't divulge his real name.

Robert regularly gambled at pool and was a pretty good pool player but he just didn't know how to keep winning. Usually, he managed somehow to lose everything he had won plus more and that was on a good day. Robert's family suffered and we all took turns taking a piece of Robert's big paycheck. Sometimes there would be arguments about who was going to play Robert that day. Robert was always a great score, although he would cheat at pool on a regular basis. Most of us would turn a blind eye to him stealing a ball here and there or we would look the other way when he committed a marginal foul.

Robert would often gamble for multiple days, non-stop, playing like a man possessed. Sometimes he would stay in the poolroom for two and three days without taking a shower and although he was a professional in the insurance industry, on the second and especially the third day, he stunk like a bum. Still, people would jockey for who would get to play him next. We all knew that if he stayed, he was going to lose and he always stayed, so most of us figured, "Well someone's gonna get his money and it might as well be me." We really didn't have any mercy on this guy. He was a sucker and we were thieves. Sure every now and then he would beat us out of some dough but that just kept him coming back for more and we all knew it. We didn't have any reservation taking his money and offering him games that he thought he had a chance at winning, even though we knew his gambling was causing hardship to his family. One day after Robert was in the pool room on the second day, his very good looking wife came in with their 3 year old son on her hip. Robert was playing $30 one pocket and losing. He probably had lost a thousand or two over those three days and the wife was steaming. I remember the table the two guys were playing on and when Robert's wife came in they were in the middle of the game. The wife came in the pool room screaming at Robert. I don't remember the actual words but they weren't from a calm, cool and collected woman. She placed the child in the middle of the pool table, balls scattering everywhere, Robert sheepishly looking at the other guy with a "What can I do look on his face?" and she screamed, "Well, now you can take care of him!" or something to that effect. Robert's family life was chaotic to say the least but the family struggled to stay together.

There were other times when Robert's gambling caused problems far too many to mention. The losses repeated themselves year after year, month after month, week after week for over two decades. Who knows how much money he lost and how much his family suffered? Eventually ,they divorced and Robert found another wife several years later. Robert was successful, well at least he knew how to make money. His only problem was keeping it. His new wife was a very nice woman and took to raising Robert's son who was by now 18 years of age. Robert hadn't kicked the habit of gambling and was worse off 20 years. This time, Robert, his new wife and young son were in the pool room watching Robert lose his last $500. When the last $50 disappeared from his pocket, he looked at his relatively new wife and asked her for the $200 that she kept hidden from him. The obedient wife gave him the $200 and Robert kept gambling and losing. Finally the $200 was gone. Robert was certain he could outrun the nuts and tried borrowing money from other member of the pool community. By now, Robert's reputation for slow-paying old debts was well known and Robert couldn't get any additional money whether it was from the fact that everyone knew he was in a game he couldn't win or the fact that they might not get paid back.

The icing on the cake was when he looked at his 18 year old son who worked at McDonalds and had just gotten paid and said, "You got that $64.00?" His son had just gotten his week's pay and had just cashed his check and had the $64 in his pocket. The son wailed, "DAD, that is all the money I have in the world. I WORKED HARD FOR THAT MONEY!" Robert bellowed, "GIVE IT TO ME" and his son did. Robert lost that money just as fast as the rest of the money. The look on his son's face and that of his new wife's face was something that turned my stomach and made me sick inside, knowing that I was a part of the people in the pool room that regularly took money from that family. No, that day, it wasn't me gambling with Robert but it could have been me just as well as it could have been anyone of the rest of us. The pool rooms I grew up in were a treacherous place and only the strong and smart survived. I think many of us justified that because Robert made a lot of money and he was a sucker, we should just take him for what we could and I don't believe a lot of thought was ever given to how his family suffered. Thankfully, after about over 25 years of losing, that was the last day that Robert ever gambled at pool. It's been quite a few years now but I hear life has improved for him and his "new" family and maybe this time the gambling addiction won't resurface.

JoeyA
 
it's bad luck gambling McDonald's money.

Those of us who gamble know the ups and downs of gambling and if we're lucky enough, we don't have the need to chase lost money on bad bets.

I was thinking about my dad's gambling problem and who knows, maybe it wasn't a problem for him. For all I know, his gambling at the ponies could easily have occurred after his children were already gone from the nest.

My mom played bingo regularly and for her it was a little more than a pastime. After the children were all grown, she enjoyed playing bingo at least a few times per week. Once, she won what they call a black out for $50,000.00. It was a once in a lifetime accomplishment but she was sure it could happen again. Before she managed to spend the $50,000 back, I strongly encouraged her to spend several thousand dollars on making her home more comfortable for her and dad. She did as I asked, with me pulling in favors from friends, we had luxurious carpet installed, new siding and maybe even added a window a/c unit or two. Mom and dad lived frugally and the 6 children didn't expect any inheritance but I wanted to make sure that mom and dad had a nice house to live in in their remaining days and they did, despite their penchant for gambling.

The next story isn't quite so nice as it involves one of our local gamblers and pool players. We'll just call him a name I made up, "Robert". Well Robert had a job in the insurance industry and made well over a hundred thousand dollars a year back in the 70's and 80's. He was successful in his industry and could be quite persuasive when he wanted to. Another pool player who tried his hand at selling insurance with Robert, said he could hypnotize his customers with his eyes and talk. The bottom line was Robert made very good money.

Those of you who recognize "Robert", please don't divulge his real name.

Robert regularly gambled at pool and was a pretty good pool player but he just didn't know how to keep winning. Usually, he managed somehow to lose everything he had won plus more and that was on a good day. Robert's family suffered and we all took turns taking a piece of Robert's big paycheck. Sometimes there would be arguments about who was going to play Robert that day. Robert was always a great score, although he would cheat at pool on a regular basis. Most of us would turn a blind eye to him stealing a ball here and there or we would look the other way when he committed a marginal foul.

Robert would often gamble for multiple days, non-stop, playing like a man possessed. Sometimes he would stay in the poolroom for two and three days without taking a shower and although he was a professional in the insurance industry, on the second and especially the third day, he stunk like a bum. Still, people would jockey for who would get to play him next. We all knew that if he stayed, he was going to lose and he always stayed, so most of us figured, "Well someone's gonna get his money and it might as well be me." We really didn't have any mercy on this guy. He was a sucker and we were thieves. Sure every now and then he would beat us out of some dough but that just kept him coming back for more and we all knew it. We didn't have any reservation taking his money and offering him games that he thought he had a chance at winning, even though we knew his gambling was causing hardship to his family. One day after Robert was in the pool room on the second day, his very good looking wife came in with their 3 year old son on her hip. Robert was playing $30 one pocket and losing. He probably had lost a thousand or two over those three days and the wife was steaming. I remember the table the two guys were playing on and when Robert's wife came in they were in the middle of the game. The wife came in the pool room screaming at Robert. I don't remember the actual words but they weren't from a calm, cool and collected woman. She placed the child in the middle of the pool table, balls scattering everywhere, Robert sheepishly looking at the other guy with a "What can I do look on his face?" and she screamed, "Well, now you can take care of him!" or something to that effect. Robert's family life was chaotic to say the least but the family struggled to stay together.

There were other times when Robert's gambling caused problems far too many to mention. The losses repeated themselves year after year, month after month, week after week for over two decades. Who knows how much money he lost and how much his family suffered? Eventually ,they divorced and Robert found another wife several years later. Robert was successful, well at least he knew how to make money. His only problem was keeping it. His new wife was a very nice woman and took to raising Robert's son who was by now 18 years of age. Robert hadn't kicked the habit of gambling and was worse off 20 years. This time, Robert, his new wife and young son were in the pool room watching Robert lose his last $500. When the last $50 disappeared from his pocket, he looked at his relatively new wife and asked her for the $200 that she kept hidden from him. The obedient wife gave him the $200 and Robert kept gambling and losing. Finally the $200 was gone. Robert was certain he could outrun the nuts and tried borrowing money from other member of the pool community. By now, Robert's reputation for slow-paying old debts was well known and Robert couldn't get any additional money whether it was from the fact that everyone knew he was in a game he couldn't win or the fact that they might not get paid back.

The icing on the cake was when he looked at his 18 year old son who worked at McDonalds and had just gotten paid and said, "You got that $64.00?" His son had just gotten his week's pay and had just cashed his check and had the $64 in his pocket. The son wailed, "DAD, that is all the money I have in the world. I WORKED HARD FOR THAT MONEY!" Robert bellowed, "GIVE IT TO ME" and his son did. Robert lost that money just as fast as the rest of the money. The look on his son's face and that of his new wife's face was something that turned my stomach and made me sick inside, knowing that I was a part of the people in the pool room that regularly took money from that family. No, that day, it wasn't me gambling with Robert but it could have been me just as well as it could have been anyone of the rest of us. The pool rooms I grew up in were a treacherous place and only the strong and smart survived. I think many of us justified that because Robert made a lot of money and he was a sucker, we should just take him for what we could and I don't believe a lot of thought was ever given to how his family suffered. Thankfully, after about over 25 years of losing, that was the last day that Robert ever gambled at pool. It's been quite a few years now but I hear life has improved for him and his "new" family and maybe this time the gambling addiction won't resurface.

JoeyA

yeah, it's bad luck gambling McDonald's money....I'm glad he learned his lesson. ;)
 
I don't gamble very often, and almost never on pool. I'm not good enough to tell if I have a higher than average chance at beating someone I don't know at pool to put money up on it. I do play cards and craps in Vegas once a year or so and tend to do fairly well. The craps tables paid for my entire trip to the APA Nationals in August. I only gamble what I am willing to spend on entertainment though. I'll lose at most $200 in a day in Vegas.

My dad, however, is a terrible gambler. Years back he came into a fair amount of money through inheritance. Six figures type money. A lot of his family had moved to Arizona so he thought he should do the same and we found him a nice place outside of Phoenix and I rented the house I grew up in from him. Turns out he got bored in Arizona and there are quite a few Indian casinos. In just shy of a year he had lost the entire 6 figure inheritance, was 4 months behind on both mortgages, despite the fact that I was sending him a check for one of them every months and owed money all over the place. I ended up having to empty my retirement account to pay off his debt and catch up on the bills. After the penalties and taxes I paid as a result it was close to $30,000 that it cost me to get him back on his feet. That was about 6 years ago. I was 25.

He has been slowly been paying be back and I have got his finances back on track. I made him sell his house in Arizona and move back to California so I could keep an eye on him. He is doing much better now and only slips up every now and then but I've restricted his accounts so he can't do any real damage. I have almost no real savings and am just now getting my credit sorted out thanks to the ordeal. I wanted to buy a house soon, but don't have the money for a down payment thanks to this.

Gambling can really screw you up if you can't control yourself.
 
I don't gamble very often, and almost never on pool. I'm not good enough to tell if I have a higher than average chance at beating someone I don't know at pool to put money up on it. I do play cards and craps in Vegas once a year or so and tend to do fairly well. The craps tables paid for my entire trip to the APA Nationals in August. I only gamble what I am willing to spend on entertainment though. I'll lose at most $200 in a day in Vegas.

My dad, however, is a terrible gambler. Years back he came into a fair amount of money through inheritance. Six figures type money. A lot of his family had moved to Arizona so he thought he should do the same and we found him a nice place outside of Phoenix and I rented the house I grew up in from him. Turns out he got bored in Arizona and there are quite a few Indian casinos. In just shy of a year he had lost the entire 6 figure inheritance, was 4 months behind on both mortgages, despite the fact that I was sending him a check for one of them every months and owed money all over the place. I ended up having to empty my retirement account to pay off his debt and catch up on the bills. After the penalties and taxes I paid as a result it was close to $30,000 that it cost me to get him back on his feet. That was about 6 years ago. I was 25.

He has been slowly been paying be back and I have got his finances back on track. I made him sell his house in Arizona and move back to California so I could keep an eye on him. He is doing much better now and only slips up every now and then but I've restricted his accounts so he can't do any real damage. I have almost no real savings and am just now getting my credit sorted out thanks to the ordeal. I wanted to buy a house soon, but don't have the money for a down payment thanks to this.

Gambling can really screw you up if you can't control yourself.

You're one hell of a son!

Daddy needs some tough love. :wink:

People that work in the casino can tell numerous nightmare stories about people who start gambling and go BAD.....I mean really BAD............

JoeyA
 
You're one hell of a son!

Daddy needs some tough love. :wink:

People that work in the casino can tell numerous nightmare stories about people who start gambling and go BAD.....I mean really BAD............

JoeyA

Thanks. Its taken years, but he really seems to be doing better. It's gotten to the point where I've let him regain control of some of his own finances as long as I have access to keep an eye on things.

It is amazing the depths to which people can sink. It can be a disease really.
 
hi book...

just wanted to add that i too thought your post was Great!

tks for taking the time to share it.

all the best,
smokey


Thanks to everyone for the positive responses to my post , I have to admit I expected the exact opposite .
I am pleasantly surprised and must now reevaluate my thought processes, thanks a lot!
 
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