problem with tournaments
- Thread starter nineball635
- Start date
FWIW and looking for other's opinions:
The Arizona Desert Classic Tour that Jimmy Mendoza and I organized is a non profit tour. We didn't set our tour up to make any money off of it. We try to pay our tournament director, Bull, 5$ per player (50$ entry), with the other 45$ going into the tournament pot. Often times, Bull, will just add the money back into the tournament for the players.
We pay 25% of the field back at every 1K added event. Unfortunately, we can no longer do calcuttas in Arizona; therefore, we utilize the sidepots.
For those who don't believe it is a lot of work, you really have no idea. Arriving early, setting up the tournament area, internet live stream, membership sign ups, tournament sign ups, checking the tables/balls, keeping the tournament running smoothly, listening to complaints, watching hits, distributing the payouts, and then breaking everything down, believe me, it is a lot of work. I'm not saying they should make more than the winner of the tourney, but they should get something.
Dennis
www.desertclassictour.com
The Arizona Desert Classic Tour that Jimmy Mendoza and I organized is a non profit tour. We didn't set our tour up to make any money off of it. We try to pay our tournament director, Bull, 5$ per player (50$ entry), with the other 45$ going into the tournament pot. Often times, Bull, will just add the money back into the tournament for the players.
We pay 25% of the field back at every 1K added event. Unfortunately, we can no longer do calcuttas in Arizona; therefore, we utilize the sidepots.
For those who don't believe it is a lot of work, you really have no idea. Arriving early, setting up the tournament area, internet live stream, membership sign ups, tournament sign ups, checking the tables/balls, keeping the tournament running smoothly, listening to complaints, watching hits, distributing the payouts, and then breaking everything down, believe me, it is a lot of work. I'm not saying they should make more than the winner of the tourney, but they should get something.
Dennis
www.desertclassictour.com
Milo said:
So you got paid to run a tournament but enlisted the help of someone, that you didn't pay, so that you could play the tournament you "ran"? You didn't give that person ANYTHING to help you?
If someone was sitting at my desk doing my job for free and I was at home getting paid for it I am sure I would be breaking a law somewhere, wouldn't I? Don't get me wrong, I am all for getting free labor I am just curious to see what the legality of something like this is.
I think the biggest problem with tournaments today are the entry fees. How do you cut up $50 for TD, the room, and players? Entry fees should be $150 to $200. That way, the enxpenses can be covered generously while creating a big purse. These $50 tournaments have been going on now for 25 years. That's gotta change.
Prince said:
It sounds like you are very lucky to have Bull. He gives back to the players, which is great.
I think some people dont realize what it really takes to run tournaments.
And how its really just "giving back to the sport" most of the time.
IMO, most TDs are underpaid.
Fart sniffer said:
I didnt say I didnt compensate them. I did. I paid their entry fee, (And bought them beverages and dinner most of the time)
I felt that was fair. (never heard any complaints)
I might add, sometiimes I did both by myself, which was difficult.
I managed alright.
You said a volunteer, to me a volunteer is someone who does things for free but you're right you didn't say they weren't compensated I just got happy ears and figured as much. Absolutely running the tournament and playing is difficult and I for one wouldn't try it, for one I don't believe in it and for two my mental powers aren't strong enough to focus on playing a match during the tournament.
Fart sniffer said:
No problem Neil. I should of included that info.
BTW, we have a big nineball tourney on wed. nights and when I was still running it, I WON IT!!!!! LOL I felt like I had just climbed Mt. Everest!!!! LOL ( But I will admit it was VERY difficult)
Fart sniffer said:
I started at least 3 threads about this over the years on here and can't find any of them. I found 2 tours where the TD/owner/player took down a huge % of the purse money over a season. A third and fourth tour wound up with about 20% of the total purses for the year. Put that with what they took out to run it and they are doing A-OK. Johnnyt
MJanis use to play in his OPEN tournaments too.
But, now, I see he takes pleasure playing in the Amature events. Maybe he's lost a little of his skill in the last 15+ year of being on the road and dealing with room owners, family, players, highway thrills, motels, car problems, phone calls, Internet threats, spam, forum posters and of course old age...LOL.
In a big (64+ players) 2 day event with limited number of tables... the first day is very long and sometimes you are lucky to get to play 3 times before MIDNIGHT or heaven forbid even later and then have to show up at Noon the next day for the MONEY matches.
But, now, I see he takes pleasure playing in the Amature events. Maybe he's lost a little of his skill in the last 15+ year of being on the road and dealing with room owners, family, players, highway thrills, motels, car problems, phone calls, Internet threats, spam, forum posters and of course old age...LOL.
In a big (64+ players) 2 day event with limited number of tables... the first day is very long and sometimes you are lucky to get to play 3 times before MIDNIGHT or heaven forbid even later and then have to show up at Noon the next day for the MONEY matches.
for all of you guys on here that think a td earns $1000 or more for running a two day event that is crazy.Keep robbing the players and there will be no more pool then whats the tds going to do rob a bank cause thats what they might as well be doing now.And again i am not speaking about all tds because there is still some that love the game for the rest they need to get a new con.Just like i said earlier i own a pool room and i know the expense of running a tournament and it is not as much as some you make it out to be
I Agree
Most tourneys I've been in pay out to 25% of the field. Spreads the gold a lil thin. I would like to see 10% of the field payed. Lil more money for the winners.JustPlay said:
I don't know any TD's makin $1000 for a weekend tourney. In our desert Classic Tour in Arizona, the TD gets $5 from every entry. The average is about 45 people per torney. So maybe he gets $220 for the weekend. Not great money, he does it cause he enjoys pool like the rest of us.
well for you people who dont believe the tds are robbing tournaments then figure it out.The viking tournament at mr cues had 98 paying players at atleast 60 then for those who were not tour members then thats another cost that is not figured in but just at the original 60 fee mike janis made about 1200 for a two day event and that is a minimun 1200 so for you non pool players that think that is fair you are crazy as you all sound
9ball123 said:
Obviously, you have no clue what you are talking about. Not to mention the fact that your sentences/paragraph is incomprehensible.
Players will complain all they want about events/Td's/Room Owners and such but the fact is when it comes to Gauranteeing the money it is us promoters on the line. And most times than not, our paycheck is dsetermined at each event by how many players we bring in. So if we do make money on one event and not the next we are the ones that suffer, not the players.
In fact just for the record this poster is referring to our Amateur Nationals which we, the Viking Tour actually adds monies to. The tour is not compensated by the room owners 100% for these events. It's more like a 50/50 split. So based on your numbers which do not include Advertising, Travel, Hotel, Set-up, product costs and such we lost money on the event which is just how we planned it. In fact our budget is a $4,000-$6,00 loss (when I say budget, I mean my savings account) for this series of 5 events which is actually much better than the 2005, 2003, 2001 losses we took on our nationals in those years which all exceeded $15,000 each year.
I will leave this thread saying that if you don't understand the hours I put into growing this tour and our sport and the many , many hours I spend promoting the events or the many hours spend gaining sponsors to relieve the room owners of the high costs of events and the many hours I spend getting room owners to do the events then quit being a nit and either do it yourself or quit knocking the efforts of Td's/Promoters. Especially the ones who are doing it right and constantly get more players, room owners, sponsors and money added to the events.
Respectfully,
Mj
Last edited:
well mike i know that for all the pool room owners that i know.The only ones who can afford the price you charge to run the tournament is the big pool rooms like mr cues and side pockets all you do is make it rough for the smaller room owners and there is alot more of them than there are big ones but slowely players are understanding that the only ones making money is the tour and dont blow smoke up my but about lossing money you would not be doing it if that was the case.But for the pool players that still want to play in good tournaments in ga there are still some and from what i hear alot more coming so help support your local small pool room