Problems with Perry Weston and the ACA.

Ky Boy said:
I don't see anyone here "jumping" on the ACA. But I do see several who feel that if your an organization who is pretending to uphold standards, ethically and professionally, then yes you are subjecting yourself to ridicule if you do not hold members to the guidelines they have adopted. Wouldn't you agree with that??? Just saying...

And no I don't feel as though they should deal with every customer compaint as though they were a judge /jury of the cue making world. But they should deal with Perry Weston on the quality of his work in this particular matter. Although PW normally makes a great cue(according to another poster) does it give him a pass to ship a shitty one every now and then???? I don't think so and know you don't either.....

And yes there are 3 sides to every story.....But if PW did indeed ship this cue in this condition with this quality of work then shame on him!!


Gary
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Gary,

One of my best friends purchased a Perry Weston several years ago. The cue is ebony with some incredible silver inlay work. Perry does create some beautiful cues. Having said that, there is NO way I would ever deal with him based solely on this exchange of views. There are three viewpoints. Even if there is information withheld by the OP, Mr. Weston's comment about his and the ACA's lack of concern, speaks volumes of those two parties.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Gary,

One of my best friends purchased a Perry Weston several years ago. The cue is ebony with some incredible silver inlay work. Perry does create some beautiful cues. Having said that, there is NO way I would ever deal with him based solely on this exchange of views. There are three viewpoints. Even if there is information withheld by the OP, Mr. Weston's comment about his and the ACA's lack of concern, speaks volumes of those two parties.

Lyn
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Forget all that - - how could one buy his cues after looking at the OP's cue? It's a hack-job, imo. Why buy one of his cues in the future if this "could be yours" coming back at ya, right?

It's like one of those "this is your brains on drugs" commercials.

This is your new cue..... here's your new cue if you buy a PW.....

I don't think there are 3 sides to this story. There's nothing PW could say that would give him relevance in this case. The "bottom-line" is this cue is horrific. Anything the OP "might" of said that he didn't share publicly was based that he spent multiple thousands on a cue that was simply (for the lack of a better word) crap.

If I was PW, I'd issue a public apology and make this guy a new cue for free.
 
Spidey,

Thanks for the comments. Although I've looked through all the posts on this thread, I must have missed the link to the photos you have obviously seen. Agree whole heartedly, crap is crap no matter how you choose to perfume it! Always want to give the benefit of the doubt though.

One of our regional cuemakers designed and built a cue for a different friend. The cue took nearly a year to complete:eek:. Upon receipt, there was some question about the quality of the clearcoat finish and a small flaw in one of the inlays. The cuemaker paid to have the cue returned to him. Re-finished the cue as a priority. Returned it at his expense. That is the type of service I'd expect from anyone I do business with. Regardless of the product.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Spidey,

Thanks for the comments. Although I've looked through all the posts on this thread, I must have missed the link to the photos you have obviously seen. Agree whole heartedly, crap is crap no matter how you choose to perfume it! Always want to give the benefit of the doubt though.

One of our regional cuemakers designed and built a cue for a different friend. The cue took nearly a year to complete:eek:. Upon receipt, there was some question about the quality of the clearcoat finish and a small flaw in one of the inlays. The cuemaker paid to have the cue returned to him. Re-finished the cue as a priority. Returned it at his expense. That is the type of service I'd expect from anyone I do business with. Regardless of the product.

Lyn
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Tate had posted the photo's but the OP had asked to have them taken off. After the treatment that the OP got from Perry Weston, I would have left them up for all to see.
 
As mentioned earlier everything about the ACA appears to read that they want to give the buying public comfort and assurance when dealing with their paying members. Obviously they're charging their members a fee and the point of the fee is the positive representation that's associated with doing business with an accredited ACA member cuemaker.

People everyday seek out a central body that embodies professionalism and quality of product. Trade associations, BBB, Angie List or any of the other pay for membership organizations that give the buying public a comfort and trust.

The mission statement is bold and they charge a fee for membership...that membership is essentially a representation of their standard or mission statement. No less.

Obviously the dispute between Weston and the OP has to ultimately be resolved between the two. However its reasonable to expect the ACA to stand behind their purpose of existence.

If I were a paying member of the ACA I would expect some kind of recourse or I would be asking for a refund because at that point what exactly am I paying this organization for if their standard is so easily circumvented. What kind of reputation of standards of excellence are they portraying if something like this gets to this point with no resolution.

If they're going to charge a fee to represent a group then they should fully expect to be put in situations like these.
 
Salamander said:
Tate had posted the photo's but the OP had asked to have them taken off. After the treatment that the OP got from Perry Weston, I would have left them up for all to see.
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Thanks for the information. Thought I was going blind as well as senile!

Lyn
 
I think that PW's comment about the ACA is almost as damaging as the product he put into the hands of a customer. I think that the ACA has grounds for automatic termination or suspension. Because PW accused the association that he is a part of, which he should represent in a favorable and professional manner, as quoted by him "THEY DON'T GIVE A CRAP". I am sure that the ACA doesn't condone one of their members speaking this way about the association.
 
cardiac kid said:
Spidey,

Thanks for the comments. Although I've looked through all the posts on this thread, I must have missed the link to the photos you have obviously seen. Agree whole heartedly, crap is crap no matter how you choose to perfume it! Always want to give the benefit of the doubt though.

One of our regional cuemakers designed and built a cue for a different friend. The cue took nearly a year to complete:eek:. Upon receipt, there was some question about the quality of the clearcoat finish and a small flaw in one of the inlays. The cuemaker paid to have the cue returned to him. Re-finished the cue as a priority. Returned it at his expense. That is the type of service I'd expect from anyone I do business with. Regardless of the product.

Lyn
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Exactly. Well said.
 
imo a cue buyer will have as much peace of mind buying from an AKC certified cue maker as one having ACA affiliation
 
Bottom line is Perry should correct the problem, period!
1. This is his work and a lot of people will see it.
2. Perry was paid for professional work.
3. Perry made a guarantee and should abide.
4. By not correcting, Perry multiplies the loss of potential revenue by creating a negative tag to his name.
If he doesn't care anymore then maybe he should quit cue making.
 
jcin-ive always found myself agreeing with you when i read into something but youre mixing the story a bit-yes PW HAS AN UNHAPPY CUSTOMER-ITS HIS PROBLEM TO RESOLVE-BUT THE ACA MARKETS/PROMOTES ITSELF AS AN ORGANIZATION OF HIGHER VALUES AND QUALITY-TO ME THIS MEANS IF YOU BUY A CUE FROM ONE OF OUR MEMBERS IT WILL BE AT THE VERY LEAST A HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT.
I HAVENT SEEN THE PICS BUT I TRUST THE GUYS ON HERE TO MAKE A JUDGEMENT OF ITS CONDITION (SINCE THEYVE SEEN THE CUE)
THE ACA NEEDS TO STEP IN ON THE BASIS THAT PERRY WESTON IS A MEMBER AND A REPRESENTATIVE OF THEIR GROUP-THEY DONT HAVE TO FORCE HIM TO DO ANYTHING BUT IT SHOULD BE MADE PUBLICLY KNOWN
(ONLY BECAUSE OF THIS )THAT HE IS TO REPAIR/REPLACE THE CUE OR BE
EXPELLED FROM THE ASSOCIATION-THE MISSION STATEMENT CLEARLY STATES WHAT THEY EXPECT AND WHT THE BUYING PUBLIC CAN EXPECT-SO FIRST LETS GIVE PERRY WESTON A GREAT BIG MIDDLE FINGER FOR RELEASING THE CUE-THEN ANOTHER ONE FOR NOT RESOLVING OR TRYING TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE-THEN THE ACA NEEDS SOME KIND OF SLAP ON THE WRIST FOR NOT HOLDING A MEMBER TO THE STANDARDS WHICH THEY CLAIM TO UPHOLD--EVRYTHING I VE SAID HERE IS BASED ON WHAT IVE READ TO THIS POINT
 
Sorry if I missed this but:

- has there been any further communication with the ACA?

- has Perry been alerted to this most damning thread?


I'm hopeful some good will come from this community involved thread, but until the ACA and Perry get ahold of this, how can it? Does Perry post here?
 
The ACA is a joke.

Nothing is going to be done, and i highly doubt that the ACA CAN do anything in the first place.
Big deal if they toss his membership. People are STILL going to line up to get a Weston, even if he doesn't belong to the ACA.

Some of the ACA cue maker members are great people, some of them are scumbags who are ignorant businessmen who think their poop smells like a bouquet of flowers.
Heck, i can look at the list and name a guy who used to counterfeit old cues, make a few changes, so that they looked like legendary cues of old just so they could lie to an idiot collector and make a score.

The ACA isn't an organization.
It's a little woodshop boys club.

Only way that will ever change is if someone costs these guys some money!
All of them!
You threaten their pockets and livelihood, they will do something about it.
But not till then.

Sue the ACA and say that it is because of the ACA membership of an individual cuemaker, that the customer got ripped off because they believed the mission statement.

Then the ACA might become a legitimate organization, instead of just being another fraternity.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
The ACA is a joke.

Nothing is going to be done, and i highly doubt that the ACA CAN do anything in the first place.
Big deal if they toss his membership. People are STILL going to line up to get a Weston, even if he doesn't belong to the ACA.

Some of the ACA cue maker members are great people, some of them are scumbags who are ignorant businessmen who think their poop smells like a bouquet of flowers.
Heck, i can look at the list and name a guy who used to counterfeit old cues, make a few changes, so that they looked like legendary cues of old just so they could lie to an idiot collector and make a score.

The ACA isn't an organization.
It's a little woodshop boys club.

Only way that will ever change is if someone costs these guys some money!
All of them!
You threaten their pockets and livelihood, they will do something about it.
But not till then.

Sue the ACA and say that it is because of the ACA membership of an individual cuemaker, that the customer got ripped off because they believed the mission statement.

Then the ACA might become a legitimate organization, instead of just being another fraternity.
Click to expand...
I would boycott PW and the ACA until this is resolved, if that was truly their reaction to the OP. Jmo
 
I saw pics of the cue before they were pulled...it was a mess, plain and simple. All the issues that the OP alleged were apparent from the pics.

The cue was meant to be an ebony on ebony with a purpleheart veneer creating the points. Had the proper care been taken with the wood selection, it would have been a beautiful cue. However, the ebony that was used in the forearm did not match that in the butt sleeve...it was brown, almost more like Magassar. Moreover, PW (admittedly) then attempts to dye over this ebony to make it represent Gabon, which is typically jet black in color, and more expensive to purchase, especially in a quality grade. He confesses to the OP that the dye didn't take as he had expected.

However, what the dye did do was to almost completely obliterate two smaller purpleheart diamond inlays on one side of the cue at the points base...and what appeared to be some bleed-over into the purpleheart veneers...making them appear ragged.

Next, it was possible to see the small shavings from the silver inlays captured in the clearcoat.

Lastly, the leather wrap looked as if it had been cut with those scissors the kids use in kindergarten...very ragged on the ends, and not flush to the rest of the cue.

The cue had all the potential to be a stunner...and it was an epic fail.

It's a big decision to commit to commissioning a custom cue from a maker. When you are dealing with a maker with a reputation for making a quality product, you are also going to pay for that reputation. Some people scrimp and save, and often part with otherwise perfectly fine cues in order to finance such endeavors. There is a huge trust factor involved...on the part of both parties. There is also the anticipation factor for the customer...is his vision going to be as hoped for? One never expects disappointment to the degree the OP has suffered. Yes, sometimes it happens, and the good makers will do what they can to try to make their customer 'whole'...but others will not. It is obvious from the tone and verbage of the provided emails, that PW has no intentions of doing the right thing.

As I have already stated, this cue should have NEVER left PW's shop...for whatever reason!! Maybe the OP was a PITA...okay, refund him his money, cease building the cue, and move on...hurt feelings can be gotten over with no real long term affect. Perhaps the wood didn't represent as expected upon turning...scrap it and start over, it is one of the pitfalls of the profession you have chosen. But for whatever reason...do not let a cue that is not to a maker's standards out the door to a customer...because the backlash can be a reputation-killer.

Lisa
 
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Lisa,

Great post! Rep to you.

Without the photos of the cue, I never would have been able to imagine the catastrophy. As I stated in an earlier post, I like to give reasonable doubt. After reading your description, I am STUNNED this cue left the shop!

Some cuemakers allow students to work on projects. I own one from a highly regarded individual who describes the cue as a "shop" cue after his name. No problem there. My cue is perfect in every way. Extremely happy. Perhaps this is a like situation without the happy ending. Has anyone besides the OP contacted Mr. Weston?

Lyn
 
Just Plain Amazing

I also saw the pics before they were pulled and the cue was unacceptable in every way the OP described. It is amazing that Perry would have sent it out the way it had been completed. What I find puzzling is that his level of execution on all other cues I have seen was fantastic, this cue looked like it was subcontracted to Eddie Wheat! Then if that was not bad enough Perry allows his reputation to be further damaged by his reluctance to make the cue to an acceptable standard. I'll never understand why anyone would allow their reputation to be dragged down so quickly over one instance like this..
Makes no sense to me..
 
Cuemakers that try to rip off customers, are an interesting breed.

I remember watching a cue incident with a very reputable and esteemed cuemaker that happened years ago with one of the locals.

The local had commissioned to have a 1-of-a-kind cue made from this cuemaker, and they went over the design in detail.
The cue was to be delivered to the customer at SBE later that year.

So SBE comes along, and the guy goes to pick up his cue, but not really being a discerning individual, and sort of a newbie, he accepted the cue as is just glancing at it, and proceeded to go around and show all his friends.

It was only when his friends looked at it, that they began to point out flaws and blemishes, and one big ass KNOT in the wood that looked like a black hole.
One of his friends, a local top player, told him to go take the cue back and ask for a refund or replacement.

So, that's exactly what happened.
When he returned to the booth with his friends in tow, the cuemaker tried to rationalize all the mistakes, before eventually finally agreeing to replace it.

So what does the cuemaker do?
He reaches down into his little cue hiding spot where he had his stuff, and pulls out an EXACT, FLAWLESS, PRISTINE copy of the cue (also all to the guys specs), and exchanges it for the crappy one that he gave to the guy.

Like WTF?!?! LOL.

The cuemaker KNEW he had made a piece of junk, and STILL tried to dish it off to a customer hoping not to get caught, so he could sell the good copy of the cue to anyone else who wanted it.

I still laugh when i think the cuemaker blatantly tried to pull this move. LOL
It just boggles the mind, what lengths some crooks will go to.
 
Perry should just make him another cue and pin that one on the wall, whether they like each other right now is irrelevant. If I paid for Gabon Ebony, I want Gabon Ebony not dyed wood. How many of PW's cues have been sold as Gabon Ebony only to be some dyed 2nd hand wood. He must have done this before if he was talking about the dye not taking. So who else has been taken by PW? I had seriously looked at a few of his cues a year or so I guess, maybe it was good I kept looking.
 
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