Problems with Pierce cues
- Thread starter J-Flo
- Start date
I bet he never "robbed" anyone out of a cue though
Relax.
Jim didn't rob anyone.
In fact, aside from losing his cool, Jim went above and beyond by offering to make something right to someone that never purchased anything from him.
I've been reading this as it's been unfolding and I've seen everyone jump at the chance to pile on Jim Pierce.
Jim and I have had issues in the past, but he's always come through in the end. He's human and will lose his cool if he's pushed. I'm the same way. I'd wager that most people here have had moments where they've lost it. We're all human.
Here's how I see it.
Snowmon sold the cue.
JFLO got the cue and something wasn't right with the shaft.
JFLO is unhappy.
Snowmon contacts Jim.
Jim says he'll make it right.
Keep in mind, Jim doesn't owe JFLO anything as JFLO didn't purchase the cue from Jim. The one time purchase price was settled a long time ago on that cue by the original owner. Whatever happened to the cue since then most likely has nothing to do with the original condition of the cue.
Still, Jim says he'll make it right.
Jim gets the shaft and replaces it with a new shaft...doesn't charge anything for it, but provides a new shaft.
Jim sends a shirt.
JFLO gets the new shaft, but wants two shafts because Jim said he'd fix the old one as well.
New shaft has a taper roll.
JFLO is unhappy.
So now we're to the part where someone said something or did something that pissed the other person off and keeping with the spirit of the internet, phone calls, and text messaging, things get out of hand.
Here's my take and you can say I'm wrong, but I'm not.
Snowmon: You're responsible for making this right with JFLO because you sold him the cue. It's easy for me to say as I don't know ALL the details, but if you sold a cue that was cross threaded, then that's on you. If that cue had something wrong with it before you sold it, it's only fair that you assume responsibility..if it would have been fixed before you sold it, this thread would have never happened.
That said, I like you and I believe that you never intended for any of this to happen.
Jim: You need to take a step back sometimes and keep your composure. I know for a fact that your heart is in the right place, but you sometimes let your emotions get the best of you and fight back when it's better to mull things over.
You and I have had some heated arguments in the past, but we worked through it. Not everyone will do that, so you will get backlash, like this, at times.
You also need to be crystal clear about what you're going to do for people and make sure they don't expect something different. I know you mean well and sometimes that hurts you when you try to please people in a timely fashion.
JFLO: Take a step back. Talk with Jim. I've been there and he will work it out with you. In the end, you'll walk away happy. Sometimes his bark gets the best of him, but he will make it right.
Also, as you didn't purchase the cue from Jim or order a 2nd shaft, try to realize that he is doing all of this on his dime and his time. Whatever problems that cue had were either:
A. Not there when he originally sold the cue.
B. Were there, but weren't brought to his attention.
Either way, he's doing you and Snowmon a favor buy trying to make this right. Although you may think he owes you something, he doesn't. You aren't a paying customer of his. Whatever he said he'd do for you is free. Free.
If he pissed you off by calling and texting, then so be it. We all fail at some point. Him and I have had some big arguments. Again, if you take a moment to cool off and talk with him, you'll end up happy.
Call me. I'd be more than happy to talk to you about it.
Sadly, these types of threads are feeding frenzies for people that can't wait to puff out their internet chests and drive someone into the ground.
It's easy for people to completely disregard the fact that there's an actual person, and their lively hood, on the receiving end of all this.
I know...I know...cuemakers aren't human and aren't to be afforded a slip here and there.
Jim didn't steal his money. He didn't take an order and never deliver. He didn't run to Mexico with anyone's wife. He replaced a shaft for free that wasn't to a non-customer's satisfaction and he's being crucified because he lost his cool.
What. The. ****?
Has anyone here ever made a mistake at their job? Lost their cool? Never? Okay then, I stand corrected, ignore my entire post. I'm wrong.
Best,
Mike
Actually he did rob someone. He not only showed his true colors but showed his arse with his comments in this thread and the way in which he treated JFLO. He made the cue, and offered to make it right because he was trying to save the sale for snowman, which he should have done, but failed to do so. Had JIM not opened his mouth to snowman, JFLO would have had a full refund right now, correct? And the fact you can even say that Jim tried to make it right even though JFLO never even bought anything from him shows your true bias. he built the damn cue... hello.
So, with the time wasted and the name calling starting, snowman is paid, but JFLO still has his gaffe cue, and in process of buying a new shaft.
Jim had a chance, every chance to come on here and do the right thing, but instead acted like an immature brat, and thus why many folks have had problems with him. Anyone reading this thread can see that for themselves. And no, I never robbed anyone when dealing with anyone... you want check my Ebay scores... 250 transactions...100% feedback.... Nobody buys anything from me and walks away unhappy... full return, or fix the problem. That's the way you are suppose to do business.. well, unless you are a lower level cuemaker.
tro you are spot on with your post.:thumbup:
it has not been said... i dont think ? who did snowmon get the cue from ? i assumed it was from jim since he told j-flo to call jim about the shaft.
i am not saying snowmon knew or did not know if the shaft was screwed up. only snowmon can answer that question. regardless of whether snowmon knew or not he is the one j-flo bought the cue from and is ultimately responsible for making this deal with j-flo right.
in all of the threads i have ever read on this forum about cue deals that have not gone right.... this is the 1st one that i have ever read where the seller said ...take your issue up with the cue maker. i just wonder why its the cue makers responsibility to make this transaction right and not the seller. ?
it has not been said... i dont think ? who did snowmon get the cue from ? i assumed it was from jim since he told j-flo to call jim about the shaft.
i am not saying snowmon knew or did not know if the shaft was screwed up. only snowmon can answer that question. regardless of whether snowmon knew or not he is the one j-flo bought the cue from and is ultimately responsible for making this deal with j-flo right.
in all of the threads i have ever read on this forum about cue deals that have not gone right.... this is the 1st one that i have ever read where the seller said ...take your issue up with the cue maker. i just wonder why its the cue makers responsibility to make this transaction right and not the seller. ?
RJ,
I still stand by may statement that Jim didn't rob anyone.
That's not a biased statement. He may have had an impact on whether or not Snowmon issued a refund, but I wouldn't consider that robbery.
You state that you have an impeccable ebay rating and stand behind your products. I'm going to assume that you don't make those products and sell things that are made by others.
If I were to buy an apple laptop from you and it arrived, 2nd hand, with a broken screen, would you expect apple to just send me a new screen?
No. You would either refund my money or take it upon yourself to get me a new screen.
Somewhere in this mess, the chain of responsibility was twisted.
Maybe it's time to go back to the beginning of this deal and do it all over again and have all 3 parties involved define who owes who and who is responsible for what.
Or, we can just sit here and argue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I still stand by may statement that Jim didn't rob anyone.
That's not a biased statement. He may have had an impact on whether or not Snowmon issued a refund, but I wouldn't consider that robbery.
You state that you have an impeccable ebay rating and stand behind your products. I'm going to assume that you don't make those products and sell things that are made by others.
If I were to buy an apple laptop from you and it arrived, 2nd hand, with a broken screen, would you expect apple to just send me a new screen?
No. You would either refund my money or take it upon yourself to get me a new screen.
Somewhere in this mess, the chain of responsibility was twisted.
Maybe it's time to go back to the beginning of this deal and do it all over again and have all 3 parties involved define who owes who and who is responsible for what.
Or, we can just sit here and argue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RJ,
I still stand by may statement that Jim didn't rob anyone.
That's not a biased statement. He may have had an impact on whether or not Snowmon issued a refund, but I wouldn't consider that robbery.
You state that you have an impeccable ebay rating and stand behind your products. I'm going to assume that you don't make those products and sell things that are made by others.
If I were to buy an apple laptop from you and it arrived, 2nd hand, with a broken screen, would you expect apple to just send me a new screen?
No. You would either refund my money or take it upon yourself to get me a new screen.
Somewhere in this mess, the chain of responsibility was twisted.
Maybe it's time to go back to the beginning of this deal and do it all over again and have all 3 parties involved define who owes who and who is responsible for what.
Or, we can just sit here and argue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I hear ya. But nobody twisted Jim's arm to make a promise he could not keep. If Jim tells snowman, "heck no, you sold the cue, you stand behind it", then FJLO would have returned the cue and gotten a full refund.
Thus, Jim opened the door by making a promise he did not keep... thus causing JFLO to be unable to return the cue. If you make a promise, just stick to your word. It's not that hard.
Basically, it appears that maybe snowman and Jim could split the cost of the shaft... snowman would have gotten the cue back if Jim did not "step in", so he has some skin in the game by selling the cue... and Jim by sending the replacement shaft that was not to JFLO'S satisfaction.
But I suspect if won't matter... cause everyone has moved on by now, and its just us rail birds left
The only thing I did wrong was.. Not send back the original shaft I truly didn't think it would cause all of this .. The cue was sent to me to figure out why it hit funky and I felt it was bcuz of the shaft so at that point in my head I thought why send it back and take a chance of it burning someone down the road.. And the second the op opened the box and saw there was only one shaft he could ask me why or ask me to build him a second shaft and I would of explain or built him a second shaft
I hear ya. But nobody twisted Jim's arm to make a promise he could not keep. If Jim tells snowman, "heck no, you sold the cue, you stand behind it", then FJLO would have returned the cue and gotten a full refund.
Thus, Jim opened the door by making a promise he did not keep... thus causing JFLO to be unable to return the cue. If you make a promise, just stick to your word. It's not that hard.
Basically, it appears that maybe snowman and Jim could split the cost of the shaft... snowman would have gotten the cue back if Jim did not "step in", so he has some skin in the game by selling the cue... and Jim by sending the replacement shaft that was not to JFLO'S satisfaction.
But I suspect if won't matter... cause everyone has moved on by now, and its just us rail birds left
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The facts
I was told about this thread yesterday, and was hoping the issue would work itself out before I had to respond.. I like both Jim and John, and I've been getting bombarded with emails, and calls wanting to know what happened..
Yes I sold the cue to John, and sent him an email to see how he liked it, and here is
his response in a email..
After that response I had 2 choices:
A) Ignore the fact that John was unhappy, move on, and let John list the cue for sale soon (as he said in his reply in email) A lot of people would of opted for this choice..
B) Try to fix the situation.
I chose B Try to fix the situation..
I contacted Jim immediately and explained the situation.
Basically I was calling in a favor hoping Jim would help out..
Jim said he would make John a new shaft no problem, just have him call him..
John called Jim, they talked, and Jim was going to make a new shaft..
2 weeks later I get a text from John telling me he's sending the cue back, and wants a refund.. I guess there was a misunderstanding in text, and John felt Jim was not going to build him a new shaft. Instead he was under the impression Jim was going to send John back the original shaft with a new tip..
I called Jim, and things got real heated..
After a 25 minute shitty heated conversation (I'm not proud of btw) I tell Jim to send the cue back to me, and I'll refund John his money back, and I would be done with all this B.S.
We'll Jim and John decide to work things out on their own without me..
They decide not to return the cue back to me, and agree to a brand new shaft, plug the original shaft and re-tap it so John will now have 2 shafts..
At this point Jim & John have decided to worked it out
without me.. I'm done, and I've moved on..
Well here we are, and I have no idea how we got here..
I figured this whole situation was handled..
I was told about this thread yesterday, and was hoping the issue would work itself out before I had to respond.. I like both Jim and John, and I've been getting bombarded with emails, and calls wanting to know what happened..
Yes I sold the cue to John, and sent him an email to see how he liked it, and here is
his response in a email..
After that response I had 2 choices:
A) Ignore the fact that John was unhappy, move on, and let John list the cue for sale soon (as he said in his reply in email) A lot of people would of opted for this choice..
B) Try to fix the situation.
I chose B Try to fix the situation..
I contacted Jim immediately and explained the situation.
Basically I was calling in a favor hoping Jim would help out..
Jim said he would make John a new shaft no problem, just have him call him..
John called Jim, they talked, and Jim was going to make a new shaft..
2 weeks later I get a text from John telling me he's sending the cue back, and wants a refund.. I guess there was a misunderstanding in text, and John felt Jim was not going to build him a new shaft. Instead he was under the impression Jim was going to send John back the original shaft with a new tip..
I called Jim, and things got real heated..
After a 25 minute shitty heated conversation (I'm not proud of btw) I tell Jim to send the cue back to me, and I'll refund John his money back, and I would be done with all this B.S.
We'll Jim and John decide to work things out on their own without me..
They decide not to return the cue back to me, and agree to a brand new shaft, plug the original shaft and re-tap it so John will now have 2 shafts..
At this point Jim & John have decided to worked it out
without me.. I'm done, and I've moved on..
Well here we are, and I have no idea how we got here..
I figured this whole situation was handled..
For the record I think you and J-Flo have handled this deal about equally poorly based on the information at hand, so I'm not picking on you here. I did however want to comment on your post above and mention something that you are failing to realize or at least failing to respect. The shaft that you did not return to J-Flo was not your shaft (as in you didn't own it, not that you didn't make it), and since it did not belong to you, you had no right to keep someone else's property without their permission--no matter what the reason.
What you should have done was contacted J-Flo and explained that you did not feel the shaft was repairable to ever be good enough quality to be played with in your opinion, and asked if you could keep it or discard it. And because you had promised to repair that shaft, you should have discussed with him what else could be done instead that would be fair to both of you.
He shouldn't have had to call you to find out why you didn't return his original shaft that that was his property that belonged to him. You should have never kept his property without his permission to begin with and the moment that you decided that you did not think that shaft met your quality standards for repair or play, it should have been you that was contacting him to explain the situation and to discuss how to proceed. But taking it upon yourself to keep or discard property that belongs to someone else is not an option that is available to you, ever.
for the record
For the record.
When I first spoke to Jim about the replacement shaft, I told him I would pay for the shaft, Jim said he would cover the cost. He had $70 in the entire stick. I said let me cover cost of shaft. He said he had less than $20 in the shaft and he said he would cover that. I did offer several times to pay. It's not like I was ever looking for somthing for free.
For the record.
When I first spoke to Jim about the replacement shaft, I told him I would pay for the shaft, Jim said he would cover the cost. He had $70 in the entire stick. I said let me cover cost of shaft. He said he had less than $20 in the shaft and he said he would cover that. I did offer several times to pay. It's not like I was ever looking for somthing for free.
we have heard now from all 3 parties involved. the more they post the more info comes out. after all these pages we finaly find out j-flo offered to pay for the new shaft.
are there any more pieces of this puzzle to put together ?
the one question that has been burning in my mind is.... did snowmon know the issues with the shaft when he sold it ?
snowmon's and j-flo's interpretations of events don't jive entirely 100% but are pretty close.
t
one thing that stands out is j-flo original txt to snowmon that he had issues and will probably list it for sale. no mention of a refund from either party at that time.
snowmon calls jim wanting a favor to help make his deal right.
2 weeks later j-flo wants his money back.
snowman calls jim and they have a heated argument. then snowmon offers to refund j-flo.
j-flo and jim work things out again .
j-flo gets his cue back with a new shaft ...minus his old shaft.
j-flo is pissed off about his missing shaft and the roll in his new shaft.
jim kept the old shaft....right or wrong.... because he felt it was a piece of shit and did not want any one down the road getting burned buying the cue with 2 shafts....right or wrong it was good intent on his part.
i dont know if snowmon knew about the issues with the shaft before he sold it but it seems to me that both he and jim had good intentions to make it right with j-flo but ....so far after all those good intentions j-flo has still got the shaft...pun intended .:grin:
this whole fiasco could have been avoided if snowmon and j-flo had followed what seems to be proper protocol on this forum.
j-flo sends the cue back to snowmon for a refund... due to being an unsatisfied buyer.
then snowmon gets with jim and has the shaft fixed and resells it. nah...that made too much sense.
are there any more pieces of this puzzle to put together ?
the one question that has been burning in my mind is.... did snowmon know the issues with the shaft when he sold it ?
snowmon's and j-flo's interpretations of events don't jive entirely 100% but are pretty close.
t
one thing that stands out is j-flo original txt to snowmon that he had issues and will probably list it for sale. no mention of a refund from either party at that time.
snowmon calls jim wanting a favor to help make his deal right.
2 weeks later j-flo wants his money back.
snowman calls jim and they have a heated argument. then snowmon offers to refund j-flo.
j-flo and jim work things out again .
j-flo gets his cue back with a new shaft ...minus his old shaft.
j-flo is pissed off about his missing shaft and the roll in his new shaft.
jim kept the old shaft....right or wrong.... because he felt it was a piece of shit and did not want any one down the road getting burned buying the cue with 2 shafts....right or wrong it was good intent on his part.
i dont know if snowmon knew about the issues with the shaft before he sold it but it seems to me that both he and jim had good intentions to make it right with j-flo but ....so far after all those good intentions j-flo has still got the shaft...pun intended .:grin:
this whole fiasco could have been avoided if snowmon and j-flo had followed what seems to be proper protocol on this forum.
j-flo sends the cue back to snowmon for a refund... due to being an unsatisfied buyer.
then snowmon gets with jim and has the shaft fixed and resells it. nah...that made too much sense.
You turned your customer over to Jim Pierce for a new shaft then Jim told the customer the existing shaft only needed a new tip. The customer didn't think that was right because there was a joint looseness issue, so he asked you for a refund. Instead, you called Jim and got into what you described as a shitty heated argument.
You then left your customer in the hands of Jim Pierce hoping "it would work itself out".
Your comment: "Well here we are, and I have no idea how we got here" leaves me scratching my head.
Your other comment: "I'm done, and I've moved on". is equally puzzling because at the end of the day, you sold J-Flo a cue with a problem joint and the man you set him up with to fix it has not come through as promised.
imo, J-Flo is still your customer and you are still obligated to see that he gets a proper resolution *or* his money back..
You can't just say 'you guys ditched me and are now working it out on your own'.
best,
brian kc
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you turned your customer over to jim pierce for a new shaft then jim told the customer the existing shaft only needed a new tip. The customer didn't think that was right because there was a joint looseness issue, so he asked you for a refund. Instead, you called jim and got into what you described as a shitty heated argument.
You then left your customer in the hands of jim pierce hoping "it would work itself out".
Your comment: "well here we are, and i have no idea how we got here" leaves me scratching my head.
Your other comment: "i'm done, and i've moved on". Is equally puzzling because at the end of the day, you sold j-flo a cue with a problem joint and the man you set him up with to fix it has not come through as promised.
Imo, j-flo is still your customer and you are still obligated to see that he gets a proper resolution.
You can't just say 'you guys ditched me and are now working it out on your own'.
Best,
brian kc
Here's the deal ..
I demanded the cue be sent back to me and once i had the cue in my hands i would send John a refund ..
Jim and John decided to ignore my demand, and decided they're going to handle the situation between themselves..
What's really messed up is John doesn't let me know he's unhappy, and decides to start this thread, puts Jim and myself on blast without contacting me 1st (he has my phone number, and email)..
Anybody who decides to put me on blast vs trying to work things out privately will never get a refund from me period..
I was CRYSTAL clear on my expectations, and they were ignored..
Nobody gets complete freedom to act as they wish or gets the opportunity thinks what's best after I offer a refund..
Its elementary..
I offer a refund
You ignore my demands
Your out!
The OP never asked for anything for free and neither did snowman.. They simply ask me to check out the cue to see why it had a funky feel. I built the OP a new shaft and about half way theu the whole deal I told the OP that I would plug and tap and re tip the original shaft and that way he could have two shafts.. Here lies the prob, I don't have a table at my shop so I decided to go into our nearest town that has a table and try the cue out before sending it out to the OP.. It played great with the new shaft so then I hit a few balls with the original shaft and it still hit like a terd.. Here lies the second prob, at that point I decided to not send out the original shaft.. Here lies the third prob I should of called the OP before heading to the post office and let him no what I had decided and to see what he wanted me to do.. Here lies the fourth prob the second the OP opened the box and saw there was only one shaft he should of called me and asked for a explanation because up to that point he and I were cool... I would of explained why and if he would of asked for a second shaft I would of built him one no prob for free.. So again I'm sorry that I felt that the original shaft shouldn't go out I was trying to save from having issues somewhere down the road
This was a simple fix I don't feel snowman passed the buck the OP and I worked this out I was to fix why it hit funky and I did.. The issue only became a issue once the OP opened the box to see only one shaft before that we were conversations just fine .. I screwed up by not telling the OP a head of time that I wasn't sending back the original shaft .
what I thought I read was that J-Flo did ask you for a refund and instead of refunding him you called Jim and had a heated argument trying to get him to salvage the deal.
You tried to put those 2 guys back on track for Jim to repair (replace) the shaft that had a thread problem.
Then Jim sent J-Flo a shaft that arrived with a roll and instead of the orig shaft replugged and tapped that was also promised, a tee shirt was sent instead.
I;m not sure I'm following your logic, how you can feel no obligation to your customer that he gets what was advertised originally.
Are you saying that at some point you informed J-Flo that you will give him a full refund if he sends it back but if he chooses to try and work the problem out with Jim, who you made arrangements with, that he would then be on his own?
best,
brian kc
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I can respect that actually...
Were you told the cue rolled perfectly straight? That looks like a taper roll to me.
really not trying to give you a hard time .....but these 2 posts from you dont jive at all.
no where in your 1st post did you state where you...recommended ......suggested..... offered... or demanded ...as you state in your 2nd post to return the cue.
according to your 1st post your 1st decision upon hearing j-flo's dis satisfaction with the cue was to contact jim ...wanting a favor to fix the shaft.
jim agreed to fix it.
2 weeks later j-flo called you wanting a refund apparently because he was dis satisfied with what jim was gonna do to fix your problem.. ...according to your post you chose to call jim again . why did you not refund j-flo then ?
after your so called heated discussion with jim you then demanded j-flo return the cue to you for a refund.
then jim and you get to calling each other names. j-flo and jim get to calling each other names. did you and j-flo ever get around to calling each other names.?
its just a f'vkd up situation all the way around because you did not demand the cues return and send a refund the day you learned j-flo was not happy with the cue.
why j-flos decision to not return the cue the day he got it is beyond me also
why you blame jim and j-flo....why j-flo bames jim is beyond me also.
i brought this question twice in my previous posts and no has responded.
so i am gonna ask you straight up.
did you know the issue with the joint when you sold the cue ? if not ...why not..? don;t you check these cues out before you sell them ?