Pros and Sponsors

TheBook

Ret Professional Goof Off
Silver Member
Do any pros ever turn down a sponsor because they don't believe in the product or don't like using it?

Have you ever seen a pro lose a match or game and blame it on the cue they were using or even say the reason they won was because of the cue or product they were using?
 
TheBook said:
Do any pros ever turn down a sponsor because they don't believe in the product or don't like using it?

Yep... all the time.

TheBook said:
Have you ever seen a pro lose a match or game and blame it on the cue they were using or even say the reason they won was because of the cue or product they were using?

Ever seen Earl Strickland lose a match? The only time he loses is when he is playing on/with bad equipment; never his fault.

skippy
 
TheBook said:
Do any pros ever turn down a sponsor because they don't believe in the product or don't like using it?

Have you ever seen a pro lose a match or game and blame it on the cue they were using or even say the reason they won was because of the cue or product they were using?

The answer to all of your questions is yes.

John
 
i have never seen (doesn't mean it hasn't happened) a player say they won because of a product they've used.

i've seen them give thanks to people for sponsoring them, and that without that money they wouldn't be there, or thank someone for teaching them...........but never seen them say they wouldn't have won without say, a fury or cuetec cue.

think about it.......what product out there actually enhances a players game in pool???

VAP
 
vapoolplayer said:
think about it.......what product out there actually enhances a players game in pool???

VAP
PCP. But I don't think it sponsors anything except freak outs and jail time.
 
vapoolplayer said:
think about it.......what product out there actually enhances a players game in pool???

VAP


I'd have to say the glove that Earl wears. Otherwise, his cue could never slide through the bridge.

I'd also have to say the colored glasses that Earl wears and the vibration dampening rubber bumper that you put in the butt of your cue.
 
drivermaker said:
I'd have to say the glove that Earl wears. Otherwise, his cue could never slide through the bridge.

I'd also have to say the colored glasses that Earl wears and the vibration dampening rubber bumper that you put in the butt of your cue.

Lets not forget the Predator 314 and Z!! I never made a ball when putting side on the cueball before getting one!
 
No player in "Pro" pool turns down sponsorship...There are so many gimmicks out there that are useless but they are represented by pro players: Sardo Tight rack and the the Spider as examples. But they help these players get into tournaments and help pay the hotel tab...
 
I beg to differ. I have seen pros turn down sponsorships. Sometimes the deal is not very good and sometimes they just don't like the product.

I have also heard players praise the cue, and other products with helping them to win. I don't know if they were sincere or just being appeasing to the sponsors.

John
 
JustPlay said:
No player in "Pro" pool turns down sponsorship...There are so many gimmicks out there that are useless but they are represented by pro players: Sardo Tight rack and the the Spider as examples. But they help these players get into tournaments and help pay the hotel tab...

Ga Young Kim has turned down Cue sponsors- She wants to keep using her Southwest?
 
This thread is very funny. The truth is that there aren't that many "good" deals out there. I have been sposnored, and I have also sponsored players. It's not cheap to be out there on tour, and many players end up getting nothing out of what little sponsorship that they do have. All of us have been burned by bad deals at least once or twice, which makes us skeptical. In the early 1990's I turned down a sponsorship deal with a Budweiser distributor due to the fact that I did not drink alcohol. I also attend those AA meetings. It just didn't seem right.

These days I spend hours on the phone searching for potential sponsors for many players. While representing players I have heard firsthand the excuses many companies give for not wanting to sponsor or co-sponsor a player. Sponsorship is a two-way investment. Both the sponsor and the player want to profit from the realtionship. More times than not, the sponsor wants a return on his investmant at every event. These types of relationships usually don't last long. Then you have guys like Wayne Catledge (Miyuki Sakai's sponsor) who is investing in Miyuki because he believes in her dream, her potential and her talent. The pool world needs more guys like Wayne who are willing to put their heart into it as well as their money.

and Nostroke... Ga Young turned me down too! lol
 
whitewolf said:
The Stroketrainer is a seriously good product for helping your off hand...Ralph Soquet.

And FL listens to those tapes that JAM declared snake oil.....the ones that improve your concentration (just had to throw that one in there). Heh, I have on open mind and will try anything to get better at pool....

You talking to me? :p There are some folks who may benefit from listening to an instructional tape and/or relaxation audio. If it helps people to improve concentration, though, by all means, go for it. I don't discount anything, if it helps.

Jimmy Wetch, when he was active on the tournament trail, would swim a few laps in a pool before competition. Joe Tucker listens to an audio of race cars zipping around a track to keep him in the zone. Larry Nevel likes to listen to audio books to keep his mind relaxed. The night before a match, Jose Parica likes to partake in a good meal, usually Chinese food, and then watch an old western movie with cowboys and Indians. :D

A few months ago, I met a fellow whose son was trying to go pro on the golf circuit. He created a portfolio for him with a brief bio and some of his accomplishments to date in hopes to acquire a sponsor. He listed every single upcoming event and detailed the costs of attending them. For a 4-month period, the son needed $15,000 to keep up with the tournament trail in semi-pro golf, which includes all of the associated expenses.

In pool, most of the sponsors are pool industry members. Cue venders in particular have been generous with players, past and present, and will provide a custom-made cue. The hardest thing for each and every player, male or female, is coming up with the FUNDS to attend events throughout the country and sometimes around the world. Some giants in the pool racket do provide the necessary monies to players, but these players are in the minority. All others fend for themselves when it comes to funds, and this is the hardest obstacle to overcome for aspiring and talented players to be all that they can be. Some who do keep up with the pool circuit have a full-time job to support their pool travel.

Getting to the meat of the problem with players and funds, here's a sampling of just some of the events available in the end-of-July-through-September time frame, and one would need to be on the road for 37 days out of this 2-month period:

July 26-31 [6-day event]
The 2005 Masters at Q-Masters in Norfolk, VA

August 3-7 [5-day event]
The Orlando Open at Disney in Florida

August 11-14 [4-day event]
Big Apple 9-Ball Challenge, Master Billiards, Long Island, NY

August 18-21 [4-day event]
Joss Tour Season Finale, Turning Stone Casino, Verona, NY

September 6-11 [6-day event]
Carolinas Open at Fast Eddie's in Goldsboro, NC

September 13-16 [4-day event]
World Summit of Pool in NYC

September 18-25, 2005 [8-day event]
30th Annual US Open in Chesapeake, VA

The above is just a sampling of what's out there in my neck of the woods for a 2-month period, and these are the cream of the crop! There are quite a few other events as well which I did not list. For a player to be able to go to each one of the above-referenced would be ideal. Unfortunately, for me and mine, it is not a financial reality and we have to pick and choose. My motto is always "Save Tara" a la "Gone With the Wind." I like having a roof over my head.

On a good note, it is fantastic that there are so many pool tournaments to look forward to. If a player was sponsored to go to all of the above, try to figure out how much monies the sponsor would have to come up with to get that player in competition. Therein lies the answer of why sponsoring pool players is a very difficult endeavor, indeed.

JAM
 
JAM said:
You talking to me? :p There are some folks who may benefit from listening to an instructional tape and/or relaxation audio. If it helps people to improve concentration, though, by all means, go for it. I don't discount anything, if it helps.


JAM

Great post JAM. It is very expensive for players to attend tournaments and everyone does not win. Something more startling is that there is no one organization that oversees this entire sport. Yes there are league and tournament organizations such as the BCA, APA, UPA,... but this is fragmented. Imagine one organization that presided over all organizations, "Pro Billiards Tour". They would be the rules dictator, handicap dictator,.. More importantly they would be the sales tool for the Billiards Tour and all of billiards. One organization at the top with no side interests. Why is this important? Mainly because it is much easier for vendors, of not just billiard products, to see a good structure in a sport so when contributions are made the entire organization benefits. Right now contributions from vendors only affect a segment of billiards, BCA, APA, UPA,.. not the entire sport. This means if they give money to support the UPA, that's the penetration limit - the UPA only. Nothing wrong with this but we have just segmented an already small participation sport into a yet smaller group.

You probably already know that more people own pool tables and play at home than those that go to pool halls regularly and belong to leagues. This is a much bigger market that is not penetrated. These are royalty payments that are available.

Organization is were it begins, pulling all those fragmented groups into one strong one.

How can this be achieved?

As unlikely as it may be, this is how it could be achieved;

Form a small group of players of pros, vendors and league players to formulate a structure.

Get league players to tell their league management that they want to donate $2 yearly and to exists under the umbrella of a single billiards organization. Remember, the players are the customers and they as a group carry a lot of weight. They can demand what ever they choose and get results. There are 750,000 league players and if each player donated $2 dollars that would yield $1,500,000. This money would be then spent to invest in ways to increase vendor participation, getting logos on all billiard equipment sold and get royalties. Getting Coke, Pepsi, Bud, .. to donate because they are now advertising to an enormous single audience. This initial $1,500,000 could be multiplied 10 fold. Now the UPA, BCA and APA can get funding to support 12 tournaments a year at $1,000,000 each. We can now pay out 30 positions down that at least pay and make it worth while for players to go to events. Players would be sponsors for non-billiard products.

The strength is in numbers and right now we only have fragmentation so vendors are not interested. The leagues players are the industry, they are the thrust we need to build this into a recognized sport with solid sponsors.

Anyway, this is achievable and it does hold the key to success for billiards in our lifetime. In my opinion this is what needs to be done. I believe in what the APA and BCA leagues have done. They have been fabulous. Lets now take advantage of this to build billiards. Done correctly, each of these leagues would also benefit financially well beyond were they are today.

The biggest bariers to this success are;

1. The negatives from people who deeply feel that they are involved in a sport that is worthless and are not deserving
2. Those that own organizations that profit from them and are afraid to lose $$$ and power when in fact they will not only make more money but they have an opportunity to contribute to the success of billiards and be recognized as that.

Babe Cranfield told me that he would never see billiards as a successful and organized sport in his lifetime giving deserved recognition to players that have worked so hard to be good, well he didn't. Maybe we will not either.
 
JAM said:
Getting to the meat of the problem with players and funds, here's a sampling of just some of the events available in the end-of-July-through-September time frame, and one would need to be on the road for 37 days out of this 2-month period:

July 26-31 [6-day event]
The 2005 Masters at Q-Masters in Norfolk, VA

August 3-7 [5-day event]
The Orlando Open at Disney in Florida

August 11-14 [4-day event]
Big Apple 9-Ball Challenge, Master Billiards, Long Island, NY

August 18-21 [4-day event]
Joss Tour Season Finale, Turning Stone Casino, Verona, NY

September 6-11 [6-day event]
Carolinas Open at Fast Eddie's in Goldsboro, NC

September 13-16 [4-day event]
World Summit of Pool in NYC

September 18-25, 2005 [8-day event]
30th Annual US Open in Chesapeake, VA

The above is just a sampling of what's out there in my neck of the woods for a 2-month period, and these are the cream of the crop! There are quite a few other events as well which I did not list. For a player to be able to go to each one of the above-referenced would be ideal. Unfortunately, for me and mine, it is not a financial reality and we have to pick and choose. My motto is always "Save Tara" a la "Gone With the Wind." I like having a roof over my head.

On a good note, it is fantastic that there are so many pool tournaments to look forward to. If a player was sponsored to go to all of the above, try to figure out how much monies the sponsor would have to come up with to get that player in competition. Therein lies the answer of why sponsoring pool players is a very difficult endeavor, indeed.

JAM

LOL. I am scheduled to play in 6 out of 7 of the events you listed. It's not cheap, and all of these tournaments will have tough fields. A schedule like that forces you to raise your level of play, which in my physical condition may or may not happen again which is not very appealing to sponsors. I am currently trying to combine my abilities as a player and and instructor (holding instructional clinics while on the road) and at the same time organizing fundraisers at various events. I'm back out there again because I believe. My job now is to get others to believe. That's not easy when you're not winning events and that is a reality that many players face. Nobody is going to pay anybody for "being a pool player". Sponsor's will pay you for being a pool player that wins events while endorsing their product, but they also expect a return on their investment. Sponsor's are not going to keep dropping money in a bucket that has a hole in it. That is why many companies believe that if they provide the player with a cue, or some other non-monetary payment (instead of money) that it helps out. It doesn't help pay expenses.
 
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