Pros & Cons of Small Tip Size

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Smaller tip= you better have a good stroke

bigger tip= more forgiving

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Smaller tip= you better have a good stroke

bigger tip= more forgiving

Nope. No difference (for the same tip curvature).

pj
chgo

 

[scottyr44]

This is not true. Hitting the cue ball farther from center is the only way to impart more spin.



A smaller tip doesn't hit lower anyway.



This is also not true. More leather touching the cue ball doesn't produce more friction.



Also not true. The most spin is applied by hitting the cue ball as far from center as possible (maximum is about halfway from center to edge).



Finally, something I agree with.

pj
chgo

well i guess i was misunderstood after re reading my post i wasn't very clear
1. i produce the most spin possible by using a contact point that is closer to the center than the lowest point which is about halfway
2. and yes the more contact surface, ie leather does transfer more spin than less contact surface due to the fact there is contact longer but with a ld shaft the tip stays in contact with the cue ball longer hence less squirt and the meaning low deflection but this also allows a smaller tip to impart the same amount if not more friction to a cueball
if you choose to disagree you can ask someone who useses a masse cue on a regular basis which usually run around 13 to 14 mm

 

[JoeyA]

I'm thinking about buying a performance shaft - either a Predator or OB. I'm leaning toward the OB. But I'm not convinced that a low deflection shaft will help my game. If I do decide to buy one, the next question is should I get a 13mm tip (which I'm accustomed to and like) or should I go all the way with the OB-2 or Z shaft with an 11.75mm tip? I've shot for about 1/2 hour with a 12.5 mm tip and I feel I can hit the cue ball more accurately but seem to lose a little on drawback (can't hit the cue ball as low without jumping). Perhaps I need more playing time with the smaller diameter cue. Unfortunately there's no large pool hall in the area where I can try various cues.

I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of going to something like a 11.75 mm tip size. And any opinions on whether low deflection shafts really help improve your game.

Pete,
First off, the Predator 314-2 and the OB 1 shafts are 12.75 MM.

The OB-2 and the Z-2 are 11.75 mm.

I have a 314-2 and like it just fine, however I am getting an OB1 shaft soon. I had one of those Earl Strickland 20" straight taper OB1 shafts but it didn't work for me. The long tapered stick/shaft was stolen and someone else wound up with the darn thing and now I am ready to give the OB 1 another go but with the standard taper that comes with it.

It sounds like you may have a little trouble with the 11.75 mm shafts and if I were you I would stay with the 12.75 mm shafts.

Low deflection shafts whether you simply cut down a traditional maple shaft by careful sanding over time or if you buy a new technology shaft like the OB 1 shaft, lower deflection is a good thing, imo.

But that's just my $.02.

JoeyA

 

[Patrick Johnson]

well i guess i was misunderstood after re reading my post i wasn't very clear

I understand you fine; you're just wrong about everything.

1. i produce the most spin possible by using a contact point that is closer to the center than the lowest point which is about halfway

No you don't.

2. and yes the more contact surface, ie leather does transfer more spin than less contact surface due to the fact there is contact longer

None of this is true.

but with a ld shaft the tip stays in contact with the cue ball longer

No, it doesn't.

hence less squirt

If you could get longer contact time it would mean more squirt, not less. But you can't, so it's moot.

this also allows a smaller tip to impart the same amount if not more friction to a cueball

??

if you choose to disagree you can ask someone who useses a masse cue on a regular basis which usually run around 13 to 14 mm

I don't "choose" to disagree. I have no choice because nothing you said is true.

pj
chgo

 

[JimS]

RE: Patrick's post above... it's not choose to disagree. It's a statement of facts. As in proven. :groucho:

 

[scottyr44]

maybe you could explain to me why i can draw up to 20 feet with using half a tip of english because apparently i have know idea about this game

 

[Patrick Johnson]

maybe you could explain to me why i can draw up to 20 feet with using half a tip of english

Sure I can: you're making it up.

pj
chgo

 

[DeepBanks]

Shanelle knows a thing or TWO about . . .

I'm sorry, but I saw the "pros & cons of small tip size" right under the "shanelle loraine in finals" thread... and had to laugh out loud! Just had to share.

tip size . . . yuuuup!

 

[Rich93]

maybe you could explain to me why i can draw up to 20 feet with using half a tip of english because apparently i have know idea about this game

No offense to you, scottyr44, but your comment brings to mind a controversy from a few years ago. Mike Sigel, by anybody's standard one of the greatest players of all time, wrote in a Billiards Digest instructional article that english does not throw the object ball. I think he said it curves the cue ball so you only think it's throwing the object ball. When challenged, he came back with just about the same words, that he knows something about this game.

How someone of Mike Sigel's accomplishments could be so wrong about something so basic, is one of the pool's biggest mysteries to date. Of course, I am not worthy to scuff his cue tip and readily acknowledge that.

 

[chin0]

I heard a rumor that size does matter the tip I think can stimulate better when it is bigger LMFAO jk

I like a smaller tip because I can hit better with it and it can spin the CB better IMO

 

[poolplayer2093]

well hitting the cue ball any lower will not impart more spin on the cue ball so the smaller tip will not help in that fact, also a larger tip helps with applying the most spin. Under the idea that the more leather you touch the cue ball with the more friction is created. Just remember the best way to apply english is with a good stroke.

CueTable Help

this is the best i can do on tables around here but if you notice my tip position it is no more than a half of a tip
you shouldn't use more than a half of tip in any direction to apply the most spin possible, practice your stroke.

i don't buy that man. i've heard all that "it's not how low you hit it" stuff before. but from what i've seen plenty of players cue lower or further over on the ball to get the effect they want.

 

[scottyr44]

well i'm glad you automatically assume i'm lying i appreciate that, i'll tell you what when i get back to the states i will video tape it and post on you tube using that rempe ball and show you where i hit the cue ball.

 

[dragon81]

I just got two z2 shafts to replace my original 314's....it is taking some adjustment but a few more practice sessions and I will be ok.
I have never shot with an OB so not sure about a comparison.

 

[JXMIKE]

OMG patrick johnson you are a nit, you just quote what everybody says in this thread and say no your wrong with nothing to back it up, someones got a napoleon complex, like a little kid saying nope your wrong im right no matter how stupid your stance is.

Get a life bro.



First time someone on this forum has pissed me off.

 

[scottyr44]

No offense to you, scottyr44, but your comment brings to mind a controversy from a few years ago. Mike Sigel, by anybody's standard one of the greatest players of all time, wrote in a Billiards Digest instructional article that english does not throw the object ball. I think he said it curves the cue ball so you only think it's throwing the object ball. When challenged, he came back with just about the same words, that he knows something about this game.

How someone of Mike Sigel's accomplishments could be so wrong about something so basic, is one of the pool's biggest mysteries to date. Of course, I am not worthy to scuff his cue tip and readily acknowledge that.

Mike sigel is correct the cue ball does curve when you apply side spin the cue ball which changes the angle which it hits the object ball and will throw the object ball. this curve is less with a ld shaft but still happens. when you learn to shoot a shot with side spin you brain makes the correction in the aiming point to compensate for the curve you just don't know it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

well i'm glad you automatically assume i'm lying i appreciate that, i'll tell you what when i get back to the states i will video tape it and post on you tube using that rempe ball and show you where i hit the cue ball.

If you get 20 feet of draw hitting 1/4" below center (a half tip) I'll pay you $100.

I'll be impressed if you get 20 feet of draw hitting anywhere on the cue ball.

pj
chgo

 

[scottyr44]

Gladly where is your pool hall or local place of play? I will gladly stop there on my way home from korea for mid tour. June 15th
and i said up to 20 feet on average it is 16 to 18 feet

 

[scottyr44]

i don't buy that man. i've heard all that "it's not how low you hit it" stuff before. but from what i've seen plenty of players cue lower or further over on the ball to get the effect they want.

No offense as well but where someone "cue's" as in where they aim on the cue ball and where they hit are two different places

 

[dr_dave]

I'm thinking about buying a performance shaft - either a Predator or OB. I'm leaning toward the OB. But I'm not convinced that a low deflection shaft will help my game. If I do decide to buy one, the next question is should I get a 13mm tip (which I'm accustomed to and like) or should I go all the way with the OB-2 or Z shaft with an 11.75mm tip? I've shot for about 1/2 hour with a 12.5 mm tip and I feel I can hit the cue ball more accurately but seem to lose a little on drawback (can't hit the cue ball as low without jumping). Perhaps I need more playing time with the smaller diameter cue. Unfortunately there's no large pool hall in the area where I can try various cues.

I'd appreciate opinions on the pros and cons of going to something like a 11.75 mm tip size. And any opinions on whether low deflection shafts really help improve your game.

It is important to distinguish between tip size (shaft diameter) and tip shape (tip radius). For more info of the effects of both, see:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#size​

As for the advantages and disadvantages of low-squirt cues, see:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#low_squirt​

Regards,
Dave