Pros Could Be So Much Better if

[BRKNRUN]

I think the important point is how it makes a difference. And I think Johnny's right - it's the stroke, not the stick. Being comfortable with your stick is important to your stroke - that's the "how" in this case.

pj
chgo

If you have a shaft that is conical taper and a shaft that is pro taper they are going to have different flex points in the shaft...(likely the conical shaft will have a much stiffer hit)

I liken the flex in a cue shaft to the flex in a golf shaft. Different flexes produce different results.

Can you draw with both types of shafts....YES...but one will fit your natural stroke better.

I want the one that fits my stroke better...I don't want to have to work to draw the ball..

Another example is the shaft (and BUTT diameter) a diameter is going to produce more draw (from my experience) Again...not that I can't draw the ball with a bigger shaft...it is just easier if the shaft fits my hand (fingers) better.....more natural and consistant results (again from my experience)...and yes part of it is the smaller tip.

Butt Diameter also plays a small role in that the thicker the butt gets the harder it is (for me to draw the ball) For some it may be exaclty opposite...

I am no scientist, but I have used multiple cues and have messed around with drawing the CB with different cues using the same stroke. (I have 4 cues) On every given day I get the same less draw with some cues and more draw with other cues setting up the same shot using the same stroke.....(I also get more shaft deflection with some cues and less with others..and more ball squirt with some and less with others)


There is a resson why pros are looking for a "specific" cue....It is not that he can't draw the ball with any cue....It is more that he wants a cue that fits his stroke and allows for a natural and consistent result.

Why do you think Earl had a cutec shaft (if it even was still a Cutec) butchered down to a toothpick???? That is the shaft taper that fits his stroke...If it did not make a difference...He would have left it stock.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If you have a shaft that is conical taper and a shaft that is pro taper they are going to have different flex points in the shaft...(likely the conical shaft will have a much stiffer hit)

I liken the flex in a cue shaft to the flex in a golf shaft. Different flexes produce different results.

Can you draw with both types of shafts....YES...but one will fit your natural stroke better.

I want the one that fits my stroke better...I don't want to have to work to draw the ball..

Another example is the shaft (and BUTT diameter) a diameter is going to produce more draw (from my experience) Again...not that I can't draw the ball with a bigger shaft...it is just easier if the shaft fits my hand (fingers) better.....more natural and consistant results (again from my experience)...and yes part of it is the smaller tip.

Butt Diameter also plays a small role in that the thicker the butt gets the harder it is (for me to draw the ball) For some it may be exaclty opposite...

I am no scientist, but I have used multiple cues and have messed around with drawing the CB with different cues using the same stroke. (I have 4 cues) On every given day I get the same less draw with some cues and more draw with other cues setting up the same shot using the same stroke.....(I also get more shaft deflection with some cues and less with others..and more ball squirt with some and less with others)


There is a resson why pros are looking for a "specific" cue....It is not that he can't draw the ball with any cue....It is more that he wants a cue that fits his stroke and allows for a natural and consistent result.

Why do you think Earl had a cutec shaft (if it even was still a Cutec) butchered down to a toothpick???? That is the shaft taper that fits his stroke...If it did not make a difference...He would have left it stock.

Isn't this all the same thing I said? "Being comfortable with your stick is important to your stroke - that's the "how" in this case."

We seem to agree.

pj
chgo

 

[worriedbeef]

some very good points made in the thread so far.

i know the thread was made in jest partly, but in any case pool isn't really much of a high tech game. there's only so much modern technology can do to it. we've got our lovely superfine simonis cloth, solid slate tables and reliable cushions, the table is pretty much perfect from a playability perspective.

as for cues, i suppose one day we will have a zero deflection shaft (or a 100% deflection shaft depending on which way you look at it), and some sort of synthetic tip which eliminates the need for chalking. maybe the shafts will be made out of something other than wood so we wouldn't have it's disadvantages (warps, dings and dents, delicate) whilst still keeping it's positives.

anyway these things are a long way off and for the most part we've pretty much got all the perfect equipment we need. just a matter of practicing.

oh we do have one thing as well that's not used anywhere near as much as i think it should be, the pool glove. it really is the ultimate in a consistently smooth stroke. nothing is as smooth as using one, and it can bring out the flaws in your stroke too.

one more thing there is one gadget i've seen advertised on the IPT challenge match between archer and earl, which struck me as a genuinly good idea. the laser on the shaft. so as you are stroking the cue backwards and forwards, you can make sure the dot from the laser stays in the same place. i haven't tried one yet, but as gimicky as it sounds, i don't see how you can argue with this idea.

 

[PoolBum]

That aside, a lot of pros play with Predator shafts.

I thought this was true as well (although I don't consider Predator shafts to be a 'gimmick').

 

[Fatboy]

If a pro is given it for free then he tries it and then sells it. If he has to buy it with his own money...he won't ever try one. Johnnyt

they pay the pro's to use their gimmicks, i honestly dont know what squirt, deflection is, it was invented while I was out of the pool scene, funny thing is though when I came back most of the top players are still the top guys, SVB has been using the same shaft since he was 9, i looked at it the othr day and he seriously needs a new tip(or he will damage his ferrel there is no side to the tip just the crown), its wore down to the ferrel, at the Mosconi cup last time I looked t it carefully it wasnt wore down to the ferrel but close, its just a good old well worn Schon shaft nothing fancy-no squirt ,deflection problems, excuses and he is beating the world with it, looking at it like that proves to me thats its marketing not the equipment, but thats cool(for some people) read on...

Now having said that we all have different ideas of pool, interests, goals etc. I noticed the other night in Alanta at Kim Davenports rook the league players, I heard of them but didnt really know much about leagues in the south, they had more cue holders, tip tools laying, etc. etc. etc. sitting on the tables next to their drinks, chalk holders etc. Man these people were all gimicked up they all had a pile of cues too, thee looked like 3 cues for every player. and they were all having fun, which is great, thats their bag-the more toys the better. It looked to me like they cant wait for the next thing to buy for $20. Not everyone wants to be SVB with one old shaft an good case and playing like God. The league people are a different breed and it sure was nice to see a room full of people playing pool, unlike LA thses days. I learned alot that night, they were having fun and for the most part couldnt play, but I dont think they care about being great players they are out to have fun and their aint nothing wrong with that.

Speaking for myself League play isnt my thing, I love owning cues and experiencing the hit of all of them old, new, cheap, expensive etc. But all I have is a few tip-tappers and the cue I'm using. I dont want or need that other stuff but for the league players I totally understand, its like a fishing tackle box, buying a new lurer is fun, its gonna catch the next big fish.

 

[Johnnyt]

some very good points made in the thread so far.

i know the thread was made in jest partly, but in any case pool isn't really much of a high tech game. there's only so much modern technology can do to it. we've got our lovely superfine simonis cloth, solid slate tables and reliable cushions, the table is pretty much perfect from a playability perspective.

as for cues, i suppose one day we will have a zero deflection shaft (or a 100% deflection shaft depending on which way you look at it), and some sort of synthetic tip which eliminates the need for chalking. maybe the shafts will be made out of something other than wood so we wouldn't have it's disadvantages (warps, dings and dents, delicate) whilst still keeping it's positives.

anyway these things are a long way off and for the most part we've pretty much got all the perfect equipment we need. just a matter of practicing.

oh we do have one thing as well that's not used anywhere near as much as i think it should be, the pool glove. it really is the ultimate in a consistently smooth stroke. nothing is as smooth as using one, and it can bring out the flaws in your stroke too.

one more thing there is one gadget i've seen advertised on the IPT challenge match between archer and earl, which struck me as a genuinly good idea. the laser on the shaft. so as you are stroking the cue backwards and forwards, you can make sure the dot from the laser stays in the same place. i haven't tried one yet, but as gimicky as it sounds, i don't see how you can argue with this idea.

Go the office supply store. Pick up a $5 laser pointer like teachers and meeting rooms have. Secure it to the shaft of an OLD cue and wallaaa..1 laser cue ready to go. Johnnyt

 

[AZE]

they pay the pro's to use their gimmicks, i honestly dont know what squirt, deflection is, it was invented while I was out of the pool scene, funny thing is though when I came back most of the top players are still the top guys, SVB has been using the same shaft since he was 9, i looked at it the othr day and he seriously needs a new tip(or he will damage his ferrel there is no side to the tip just the crown), its wore down to the ferrel, at the Mosconi cup last time I looked t it carefully it wasnt wore down to the ferrel but close, its just a good old well worn Schon shaft nothing fancy-no squirt ,deflection problems, excuses and he is beating the world with it, looking at it like that proves to me thats its marketing not the equipment, but thats cool(for some people) read on...

Now having said that we all have different ideas of pool, interests, goals etc. I noticed the other night in Alanta at Kim Davenports rook the league players, I heard of them but didnt really know much about leagues in the south, they had more cue holders, tip tools laying, etc. etc. etc. sitting on the tables next to their drinks, chalk holders etc. Man these people were all gimicked up they all had a pile of cues too, thee looked like 3 cues for every player. and they were all having fun, which is great, thats their bag-the more toys the better. It looked to me like they cant wait for the next thing to buy for $20. Not everyone wants to be SVB with one old shaft an good case and playing like God. The league people are a different breed and it sure was nice to see a room full of people playing pool, unlike LA thses days. I learned alot that night, they were having fun and for the most part couldnt play, but I dont think they care about being great players they are out to have fun and their aint nothing wrong with that.

Speaking for myself League play isnt my thing, I love owning cues and experiencing the hit of all of them old, new, cheap, expensive etc. But all I have is a few tip-tappers and the cue I'm using. I dont want or need that other stuff but for the league players I totally understand, its like a fishing tackle box, buying a new lurer is fun, its gonna catch the next big fish.

^^^ HEY!!!.....

Flip for it!

 

[Caromsoft]

SVB has been using the same shaft since he was 9, i looked at it the othr day and he seriously needs a new tip(or he will damage his ferrel there is no side to the tip just the crown), its wore down to the ferrel, at the Mosconi cup last time I looked t it carefully it wasnt wore down to the ferrel but close, its just a good old well worn Schon shaft nothing fancy-no squirt ,deflection problems, excuses and he is beating the world with it.

Most professional athletes have superstitions about their equipment, and why shouldn't they? If you or I was playing at SVB's level when we were 10, 12, 14, etc with an old Schon shaft and a beat up tip I don't think any of us would risk changing anything! I would think any professional would be hard pressed to try anything new if what they have is working...why would they unless they were being paid to do it. But for those of us that are not professionals, new technology CAN make a difference. My game improved when I switched to an OB-1 shaft. That's what my experience with one of these "gimmicks" is.

 

[Island Drive]

Most professional athletes have superstitions about their equipment, and why shouldn't they? If you or I was playing at SVB's level when we were 10, 12, 14, etc with an old Schon shaft and a beat up tip I don't think any of us would risk changing anything! I would think any professional would be hard pressed to try anything new if what they have is working...why would they unless they were being paid to do it. But for those of us that are not professionals, new technology CAN make a difference. My game improved when I switched to an OB-1 shaft. That's what my experience with one of these "gimmicks" is.

In essence, when you have a tip on that draws/follows/spins/stalls like you expect, you KNOW better than to change, Varner also feels strongly about this aspect of the game.

 

[JimS]

I finally started getting out when I added the finger extensions.

 

[DeadPoked]

Mike Davis couldn't win any regional tours until he switched to using a predator shaft. He said that took all the guess work out of it for him. That gimmick shaft seemed to have helped him just a little.

 

[Johnnyt]

I never said shafts were gimmicks. Johnnyt

 

[BPG24]

Mike Davis couldn't win any regional tours until he switched to using a predator shaft. He said that took all the guess work out of it for him. That gimmick shaft seemed to have helped him just a little.

Alex P played his best pool with one. D Peach also used one to win the WPC.

They are not gimmicks, some people just can't appreciate the advantages that they bring

 

[AZE]

I personally know a handful of pro's, or pro-caliber players who use Predator/OB-1 shafts and swear by them.... and they are not endorsed.

IMO, Ted Harris custom shafts FTW.

Some of the predators were good, but from shaft to shaft it wasn't consistant for me. Played with a few OB1's, don't have a real good feeling for them yet, but from the amount I have played I like... maybe I'll try them out a bit more.

 

[worriedbeef]

Some of the predators were good, but from shaft to shaft it wasn't consistant for me. Played with a few OB1's, don't have a real good feeling for them yet, but from the amount I have played I like... maybe I'll try them out a bit more.

actually, not to be argumentative with you or anything, but i would have thought that consistency is one of the advantages of using a predator or ob-1. unlike a custom shaft where you can't get an identical one as easy. a predator or ob-1 you can just order another one and it will play exactly the same. although you are not the first to say the predator's aren't that consistent from shaft to shaft. maybe it's just the first generations.