Pros or cons playing with light shaft (approximately 3.0 oz)

RandyinHawaii

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I am looking to buy a kielwood shaft that only weights 3.o oz. I had a chance to test hit it with the butt I would use it with and liked it. Balance point is right at 19", so that is not an issue for me. However, I am not going to have a chance to give it a long term try before purchasing.

Appreciate input from anyone that has played with a shaft that light, or anyone that has thoughts about playing with a shaft that light.

Thanks in advance for any response.
 
I am looking to buy a kielwood shaft that only weights 3.o oz. I had a chance to test hit it with the butt I would use it with and liked it. Balance point is right at 19", so that is not an issue for me. However, I am not going to have a chance to give it a long term try before purchasing.

Appreciate input from anyone that has played with a shaft that light, or anyone that has thoughts about playing with a shaft that light.

Thanks in advance for any response.
If you like the feel I don't see what else could be wrong... except maybe lower deflection than you're accustomed to?

pj
chgo
 
A player at the pool hall I go to has a Keilwood shaft and it plays great. IDK its weight, but I assume they are all lighter than normal maple shafts? There are a lot of them out there these days, and I haven't heard of any longevity issues with them.
 
I haven't noticed any real differences in all the wood shafts I've used regarding weight. As long as the overall cue weight is suitable and the shaft is well made, I don't see any issues. It seems there is a bit of a myth that heavier shafts are inherently better as the wood must be more dense. Some people tend to forget other issues affecting weight like taper, length and metal inserts.
 
I am looking to buy a kielwood shaft that only weights 3.o oz. I had a chance to test hit it with the butt I would use it with and liked it. Balance point is right at 19", so that is not an issue for me. However, I am not going to have a chance to give it a long term try before purchasing.

Appreciate input from anyone that has played with a shaft that light, or anyone that has thoughts about playing with a shaft that light.

Thanks in advance for any response.
For me, Lighter shaft seems to deflect less,
Just a little more power making shots though
 
You have already evaluated and signed off on the hit it gives your cue, and the overall weight and balance point your cue will have with it. You are also obviously ok with the color, which may not be to some people's preference.

The only other factor left to consider is what Pat Johnson mentioned, that it is likely to be a little lower deflection than heavier wood shafts would be. This obviously could mean a period of a few weeks where your game suffers a bit until you get used to the new deflection. Also, because of that lower end mass/deflection, it will likely not jump quite as well as a heavier wood shaft would if you are used to doing full cue jump shots with your playing cue. Neither of those things are a very big deal IMO, but perhaps they might be to you for some reason. If they aren't, and you like the price, it sounds like it meets all your preferences and would be a good purchase for you.
 
I am looking to buy a kielwood shaft that only weights 3.o oz. I had a chance to test hit it with the butt I would use it with and liked it. Balance point is right at 19", so that is not an issue for me. However, I am not going to have a chance to give it a long term try before purchasing.

Appreciate input from anyone that has played with a shaft that light, or anyone that has thoughts about playing with a shaft that light.

Thanks in advance for any response.
You answered your own question in this thread’s title with your opening second sentence.

Does it really matter what anyone else thinks or opines about a very light weight Kielwood shaft? What if 9 people reply and 7 out of 9 or even all nine respondents replied it just doesn’t feel right to them. So the next time to get a chance to try it, are you going to be looking for reasins not to like it or fin$ fault with the weight being too light?

Didn’t you just post that you tried this shaft and you liked it. Nuf Ced! Don’t go looking for reassurance from this forum when so many members don’t truly know as much as they think they might about pool cues. I’ve found the majority of cue owners are pretty unfamilar with the actual specifications comprising their cue’s playing weight.

If you hadn’t already tried this shaft and liked the way it played and instead were looking for opinions, that’s a entirely different proposition. You are looking for people to agree with you or elaborate why this combination felt good to you and in turn, them as well. Stick with what you like and eventually figure out why you like it.

IMO, this combination should suck because it defies everything I learned and firmly believe in about pool cue anatomy and cue construction. But this is only my opinion, albeit well supported by cue making history. The only thing that truly should matter to you, or any of us, is that we get to play pool with a cue we like. The sad part is so many players still don’t know what they like or why because they never took the time to figure out why.

I suppose it doesn’t matter in the final analysis. Knowing why you like something about a pool cue, aside from its
appearance, isn’t truly that important to know why you like or love it as long as you get to keep playing pool with it.
Stick with what you know rather than listen to what others, including myself, post. You liked playing with the shaft.

p.s. if you do a search on Kielwood shafts, you’ll see I’ve been posting about these shafts since last year. I finally was successful having KW shafts built the way I wanted them constructed. And the results are posted and I’m delighted.
 
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You answered your own question in this thread’s title with your opening second sentence.

Does it really matter what anyone else thinks or opines about a very light weight Kielwood shaft? What if 9 people reply and 7 out of 9 or even all nine respondents replied it just doesn’t feel right to them. So the next time to get a chance to try it, are you going to be looking for reasins not to like it or fin$ fault with the weight being too light?

Didn’t you just post that you tried this shaft and you liked it. Nuf Ced! Don’t go looking for reassurance from this forum when so many members don’t truly know as much as they think they might about pool cues. I’ve found the majority of cue owners are pretty unfamilar with the actual specifications comprising their cue’s playing weight.

If you hadn’t already tried this shaft and liked the way it played and instead were looking for opinions, that’s a entirely different proposition. You are looking for people to agree with you or elaborate why this combination felt good to you and in turn, them as well. Stick with what you like and eventually figure out why you like it.

IMO, this combination should suck because it defies everything I learned and firmly believe in about pool cue anatomy and cue construction. But this is only my opinion, albeit well supported by cue making history. The only thing that truly should matter to you, or any of us, is that we get to play pool with a cue we like. The sad part is so many players still don’t know what they like or why because they never took the time to figure out why.

I suppose it doesn’t matter in the final analysis. Knowing why you like something about a pool cue, aside from its
appearance, isn’t truly that important to know why you like or love it as long as you get to keep playing pool with it.
Stick with what you know rather than listen to what others, including myself, post. You liked playing with the shaft.

p.s. if you do a search on Kielwood shafts, you’ll see I’ve been posting about these shafts since last year. I finally was successful having KW shafts built the way I wanted them constructed. And the results are posted and I’m delighted.
Every cue I have ever had became my "favorite" cue if I played with it long enough.

Why?

Because I adapted to it and used it so often that I became familiar with how it played, which made me trust it to do what I had already saw it could do from putting it through the paces.

If you can do everything you need to do with a cue, you don't need another one.
 
I haven't noticed any real differences in all the wood shafts I've used regarding weight. As long as the overall cue weight is suitable and the shaft is well made, I don't see any issues. It seems there is a bit of a myth that heavier shafts are inherently better as the wood must be more dense. Some people tend to forget other issues affecting weight like taper, length and metal inserts.
How about this……look at the next 30-40 or 100 cue listings. Doesn’t matter if the cue is newly made or 50 years old.
Take the weight of the cue, multiply it by 18% (.18), 20% (.20) and 22% (.22). The only caveat is the cue maker has to be recognized as being top notch versus a wanna be. The best cue makers pay attention to building their cues with weight proportionality of the cue shaft and cue butt. They seldom, if ever, built cues without a heavier weight cue shaft.

Consider the genuine facts about how the best named cue makers built their pool cues. I look at every for sale listing that catches my eye. I’ve been doing this since 2004 when I reinvented my pool cue specs. It always holds true that heavier version shafts were used by the best cue makers. Now don’t take my word for this but I do put my money where my mouth is. This is exactly how all the cues in my case were built and I’ve spoken with many talented cue makers over the years. They always respected the importance of matching a shaft weight to the cue butt weight.

Now that’s just a fact and I also proved that many cue makers I contacted over the past 6 to build a couple of 4 oz. flat faced big pin uncored Kielwood shafts for me were flat out wrong. They told me the shafts cannot be built without adding weight to the shaft collar because torrefication renders the shaft lighter so weight would have to be added.

BULLSHIT….. they were wrong……..the shafts are sitting in my case. And the shafts play great, low deflection is fine and the shafts are 29”, not 30”, and there been no inserts or weight added to the shafts,…..just tip, ferrule and wood shaft. It took months of searching but I eventually located a few cue makers that can and do build heavier KW shafts.

Don’t take my word for this……start checking every for sale listing that catches your eye and look at the specs or call the most talented cue makers you might know. I can’t believe that pool players haven’t noticed this pattern of cue making decades ago. It is so obvious because it stares you in the face with cue for sale listings and pool cue anatomy.

That why I wrote a 3 oz. Kielwood shaft seems mismatched due to disproportionate weight relationship with the cue butt. It would otherwise suggest the butt weight would have to be ridiculously light. So challenge with with facts, not your opinion. I just gave you the hard core facts and you can verify this yourself. Pay attention to all cue for sale listings and then tell me I am wrong. It won’t be 100% of the ads you see but 99% should be adequate proof, don’t ya think? But at least choose cue makers that have been in business awhile. Just look for respected names when double checking me.

Heavier wood shafts play better if matched with the shafts. This didn’t happen by coincidence……the best cue makers
built their cues this way and still do. So simply start paying attention to for cue for sale ads and you’ll see I am correct.

p.s. I have posted about the importance of weight proportionality in the Cue Makers Forum and so far not a single cue maker has refuted my remarks about the shaft weight relationship with the pool cue butt. The silence certainly seems deafening.
 
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Thanks for all the responses. I did buy the shaft.
Randy….the only opinion that matters involving a pool cue is yours, not mine or anyone else’s.
As long as the cue fulfills what you want, you just made a fabulous decision. If your test drive
meets your approval, then that pretty much seals the deal. Only you can decide what’s best for you.
 
How about this……look at the next 30-40 or 100 cue listings. Doesn’t matter if the cue is newly made or 50 years old.
Take the weight of the cue, multiply it by 18% (.18), 20% (.20) and 22% (.22). The only caveat is the cue maker has to be recognized as being top notch versus a wanna be. The best cue makers pay attention to building their cues with weight proportionality of the cue shaft and cue butt. They seldom, if ever, built cues without a heavier weight cue shaft.

Consider the genuine facts about how the best named cue makers built their pool cues. I look at every for sale listing that catches my eye. I’ve been doing this since 2004 when I reinvented my pool cue specs. It always holds true that heavier version shafts were used by the best cue makers. Now don’t take my word for this but I do put my money where my mouth is. This is exactly how all the cues in my case were built and I’ve spoken with many talented cue makers over the years. They always respected the importance of matching a shaft weight to the cue butt weight.

Now that’s just a fact and I also proved that many cue makers I contacted over the past 6 to build a couple of 4 oz. flat faced big pin uncored Kielwood shafts for me were flat out wrong. They told me the shafts cannot be built without adding weight to the shaft collar because torrefication renders the shaft lighter so weight would have to be added.

BULLSHIT….. they were wrong……..the shafts are sitting in my case. And the shafts play great, low deflection is fine and the shafts are 29”, not 30”, and there been no inserts or weight added to the shafts,…..just tip, ferrule and wood shaft. It took months of searching but I eventually located a few cue makers that can and do build heavier KW shafts.

Don’t take my word for this……start checking every for sale listing that catches your eye and look at the specs or call the most talented cue makers you might know. I can’t believe that pool players haven’t noticed this pattern of cue making decades ago. It is so obvious because it stares you in the face with cue for sale listings and pool cue anatomy.

That why I wrote a 3 oz. Kielwood shaft seems mismatched due to disproportionate weight relationship with the cue butt. It would otherwise suggest the butt weight would have to be ridiculously light. So challenge with with facts, not your opinion. I just gave you the hard core facts and you can verify this yourself. Pay attention to all cue for sale listings and then tell me I am wrong. It won’t be 100% of the ads you see but 99% should be adequate proof, don’t ya think? But at least choose cue makers that have been in business awhile. Just look for respected names when double checking me.

Heavier wood shafts play better if matched with the shafts. This didn’t happen by coincidence……the best cue makers
built their cues this way and still do. So simply start paying attention to for cue for sale ads and you’ll see I am correct.

p.s. I have posted about the importance of weight proportionality in the Cue Makers Forum and so far not a single cue maker has refuted my remarks about the shaft weight relationship with the pool cue butt. The silence certainly seems deafening.
I must not be very attentive, I have never noticed a cue that felt better or worse balanced. I also never check balance point on cues. Unless you hold the cue at the balance point what difference does the balance point really make? I end up holding 58" & 59" cues at the butt cap due to my wing span.
 
I must not be very attentive, I have never noticed a cue that felt better or worse balanced. I also never check balance point on cues. Unless you hold the cue at the balance point what difference does the balance point really make? I end up holding 58" & 59" cues at the butt cap due to my wing span.
FWIW, I like the balance point to be halfway between my bridge hand and my grip hand as I am leaning over the table for a shot.

The cue feels "neutral" to me this way.

As you might infer from this, one cue may not fit all.

For example, say I like my cue with a 19" balance point and you hand me your cue that is more butt heavy.

For my wingspan, to get the "balanced" feel I must put my grip hand further back on the cue and bring my bridge hand back the same distance. This may give me a longer bridge than I am comfortable with.

The same thing applies in reverse if the cue is balanced way forward or if the cue is longer or shorter.
 
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How about this……look at the next 30-40 or 100 cue listings. Doesn’t matter if the cue is newly made or 50 years old.
Take the weight of the cue, multiply it by 18% (.18), 20% (.20) and 22% (.22). The only caveat is the cue maker has to be recognized as being top notch versus a wanna be. The best cue makers pay attention to building their cues with weight proportionality of the cue shaft and cue butt. They seldom, if ever, built cues without a heavier weight cue shaft.

Consider the genuine facts about how the best named cue makers built their pool cues. I look at every for sale listing that catches my eye. I’ve been doing this since 2004 when I reinvented my pool cue specs. It always holds true that heavier version shafts were used by the best cue makers. Now don’t take my word for this but I do put my money where my mouth is. This is exactly how all the cues in my case were built and I’ve spoken with many talented cue makers over the years. They always respected the importance of matching a shaft weight to the cue butt weight.

Now that’s just a fact and I also proved that many cue makers I contacted over the past 6 to build a couple of 4 oz. flat faced big pin uncored Kielwood shafts for me were flat out wrong. They told me the shafts cannot be built without adding weight to the shaft collar because torrefication renders the shaft lighter so weight would have to be added.

BULLSHIT….. they were wrong……..the shafts are sitting in my case. And the shafts play great, low deflection is fine and the shafts are 29”, not 30”, and there been no inserts or weight added to the shafts,…..just tip, ferrule and wood shaft. It took months of searching but I eventually located a few cue makers that can and do build heavier KW shafts.

Don’t take my word for this……start checking every for sale listing that catches your eye and look at the specs or call the most talented cue makers you might know. I can’t believe that pool players haven’t noticed this pattern of cue making decades ago. It is so obvious because it stares you in the face with cue for sale listings and pool cue anatomy.

That why I wrote a 3 oz. Kielwood shaft seems mismatched due to disproportionate weight relationship with the cue butt. It would otherwise suggest the butt weight would have to be ridiculously light. So challenge with with facts, not your opinion. I just gave you the hard core facts and you can verify this yourself. Pay attention to all cue for sale listings and then tell me I am wrong. It won’t be 100% of the ads you see but 99% should be adequate proof, don’t ya think? But at least choose cue makers that have been in business awhile. Just look for respected names when double checking me.

Heavier wood shafts play better if matched with the shafts. This didn’t happen by coincidence……the best cue makers
built their cues this way and still do. So simply start paying attention to for cue for sale ads and you’ll see I am correct.

p.s. I have posted about the importance of weight proportionality in the Cue Makers Forum and so far not a single cue maker has refuted my remarks about the shaft weight relationship with the pool cue butt. The silence certainly seems deafening.
My favorite cue in the case has a fixed butt weight of 16 oz.

I have had in my posssesion a OB Phoenix shaft that weighed 2.8 ounces

So for sake of argument let's make that the bottom end & go with 4.2 oz on the top end.

Run the numbers Bava for me and the entire forum for say every 2/10 of an ounce.
 
My favorite cue in the case has a fixed butt weight of 16 oz.

I have had in my posssesion a OB Phoenix shaft that weighed 2.8 ounces

So for sake of argument let's make that the bottom end & go with 4.2 oz on the top end.

Run the numbers Bava for me and the entire forum for say every 2/10 of an ounce.
If you have a 16 oz. cue butt and a 4.2 oz cue shaft, the paying weight is the combination of the 2 weights.
Pretty straight forward addition and so you have a cue when the two parts are assembled weighing 20.2 ozs.

To determine weight ratios, you simply revert to division. You take the shaft weight of 4.2 ounces and divide it
by the cue’s playing weight that we know to be 20.2 ozs. (16 oz. Butt & 4.2 oz. Shaft). You get 0.0279 or the %
equivalent of 20.79% which can rounded to 20.8% weight proportionality. The shaft represents almost 21% of
the assembled cue’s playing weight. As I tried my best to explain, there is a rule of thumb approach used by the
best cue makers striving to match a shaft to a cue butt to achieve the best hitting combination. This is just a fact.

A shaft that only weighed 3.3 ozs. matched to a 16 oz. butt would be 17.1% rounded up which to my way of
thinking is just too light when coupled with a 16 ounce cue butt. Take my challenge to start checking for sale ads
and pay attention to the shaft weight. You may find a lesser known cue maker that deviates from time to time but not
the big names in cue making over the past 75 years. Search the Blue Books for top names and search their cue
making history looking for past sales, or current ones. But the bottomline is always buy what you like not what I like.
 
If you have a 16 oz. cue butt and a 4.2 oz cue shaft, the paying weight is the combination of the 2 weights.
Pretty straight forward addition and so you have a cue when the two parts are assembled weighing 20.2 ozs.

To determine weight ratios, you simply revert to division. You take the shaft weight of 4.2 ounces and divide it
by the cue’s playing weight that we know to be 20.2 ozs. (16 oz. Butt & 4.2 oz. Shaft). You get 0.0279 or the %
equivalent of 20.79% which can rounded to 20.8% weight proportionality. The shaft represents almost 21% of
the assembled cue’s playing weight. As I tried my best to explain, there is a rule of thumb approach used by the
best cue makers striving to match a shaft to a cue butt to achieve the best hitting combination. This is just a fact.

A shaft that only weighed 3.3 ozs. matched to a 16 oz. butt would be 17.1% rounded up which to my way of
thinking is just too light when coupled with a 16 ounce cue butt. Take my challenge to start checking for sale ads
and pay attention to the shaft weight. You may find a lesser known cue maker that deviates from time to time but not
the big names in cue making over the past 75 years. Search the Blue Books for top names and search their cue
making history looking for past sales, or current ones. But the bottomline is always buy what you like not what I like.
Instead of writing a novel and being condescending, try doing what I asked.

Put the f'n numbers down on a reply starting with a 2.8 ounce shaft and end with a 4.8 ounce shaft.
Do whatever you want, every tenth or every two tenths. What are you affraid of by doing just that?
 
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