Jason Robichaud said:
Jason,
Didn't mean to get off topic from your original question. I answered it in my first post though. I would think with a good budget that $75,000-$125,000 would be a good range for an average pro.
Proud Professionals
- Thread starter Jason Robichaud
- Start date
Jason,
Didn't mean to get off topic from your original question. I answered it in my first post though. I would think with a good budget that $75,000-$125,000 would be a good range for an average pro.
Well, it seems to me that if someone's career costs them $40K before they even make a dime, plus factoring in that having a bad few months or a year could mean making less than the average... I'd say definitely a sustainable amount would be the high end of your range... possibly even higher!corvette1340 said:
Sounds like the riskiest venture ever...
lodini said:
Then I question your love of pool (as I max out my credit cards).
frankncali said:
I will try to reply to you as politely as I can.
I am not saying that pro players should be treated any differently than a machinist or a fry cook. We are all human beings who need to make ends meet and keep a roof over our head.
My point, FranknCali, is that a pro player has skills, some of which took a lifetime to achieve. If you and/or I are to take pool as a sport seriously, then having pool skills should be worth something in a sports realm.
If you ever get the opportunity to talk to Buddy Hall, ask him about his opinion on this topic. I would love for you to relay the remarks on this forum about fry cooks and mechanics to Buddy Hall, a BCA Hall of Famer who is held in high regard by most knowledgable American pool enthusiasts.
frankncali said:
And there is where you and I do share a difference of opinion, and that is fine. I happen to think a professional pool player should be compensated for his/her skills set in tournaments, especially in today's economic times.
I think the skills it takes to be a professional pool player is a higher level than the skills it takes to be a fry cook and a mechanic.
You are right about one thing. There is no demand for pool in the United States because of opinions exactly like the one you have expressed. If you think professional pool players, world-class champions like Buddy Hall, Luther Lassiter, Grady Mathews, Cornbread Red, Nick Varner, Ralph Greenleaf, Willie Mosconi, and Earl Strickland have skills on the same parallel as fry cooks and mechanics, then we will just have to agree that we have a difference of opinion.
JAM
lodini said:
It is a lot like sales... You always have bills and never now if you are going to have a good month or bad. You keep doing it for the rush you get during the good months. I posted $200,000 per year and I think this would permit them to sleep at night. $100,000 year I think they are going to have a restless night or two (without sponsors).
lodini said:
It does depend on the length of the tournament.
I read recently on this forum that you attended your first professional tournament in Florida. I can't remember how long that pro event was, but most of those players, the ones who were not sponsored, had to pay for entry fee, travel, hotel, and food expenses. And it ain't cheap.
Many players today will share rooms with other players to cut down on expenses.
lodini said:
Most pro players who do it full time, two, three, and four times a month, do not have a job because most jobs wouldn't give time off from work two, three, and four times a month.
JAM
And another idea that I think would help if some sort of committee was establised, I would have some of the bigger names from different countries, like Archer, Deuel, SVB and John Schmidt (and others)from the U.S., Souquet, Ortman, Hohman from Germany, Reyes, Bustamante, etc. for the Phillipines and have as many countries represented as possible to show the diversity of the sport and how it is perceived in those countries. Like Vette said, they could have resumes, so to speak, to show and as a committee present the plan and its potential. I would strongly recomment having a player rep. someone like Jay Helfert or maybe Scott Smith to be the president. JMO.
Southpaw
Southpaw
How many pro pool players have resumes? If there are any that have one, please post it here. I would like to read it.
I don't think anyone is insulting the American Pool Player but they do have a different 'attitude' then other professionals. Take an NFL player for example - beyond the physical attributes he needs to have, many have coaches that help them with the interview process. Teams want to know what a player is about, not just how fast he can run (or draw his ball). I wonder if the pool player had to go thru a month long process to get 'drafted' into a pro tour that included not only skill challenges but interviews, psychological exams, intelligent testing - how many would show up or stay for the entire month?
Shawn Putnam is a perfect example of the American Pool Player that has made something of himself. He is a great regional player but I would not consider him 'world class' (no offense Shawn). But this guy has shown the determination to get sponsors, treat his sponsors with respect and to act with class when out in public. Anyone that was at the BCA, I am sure that you sure the booth of his sponsor with a huge poster of Shawn promoting their product. That to me was impressive. More impressive than watching him draw his ball. I believe that Shawn is also a TD for the Viking Tour. Seems that he has found a way to cover his expenses on the tournamentn trail. Probably not as much fun as partying and staying out late, or not having a set schedule in life - but also a better life. Shawn ought to have training classes for the American pool player to become a self businessman. And to see that life is a long journey, not a quick fix or one time cashing in.
I don't think anyone is insulting the American Pool Player but they do have a different 'attitude' then other professionals. Take an NFL player for example - beyond the physical attributes he needs to have, many have coaches that help them with the interview process. Teams want to know what a player is about, not just how fast he can run (or draw his ball). I wonder if the pool player had to go thru a month long process to get 'drafted' into a pro tour that included not only skill challenges but interviews, psychological exams, intelligent testing - how many would show up or stay for the entire month?
Shawn Putnam is a perfect example of the American Pool Player that has made something of himself. He is a great regional player but I would not consider him 'world class' (no offense Shawn). But this guy has shown the determination to get sponsors, treat his sponsors with respect and to act with class when out in public. Anyone that was at the BCA, I am sure that you sure the booth of his sponsor with a huge poster of Shawn promoting their product. That to me was impressive. More impressive than watching him draw his ball. I believe that Shawn is also a TD for the Viking Tour. Seems that he has found a way to cover his expenses on the tournamentn trail. Probably not as much fun as partying and staying out late, or not having a set schedule in life - but also a better life. Shawn ought to have training classes for the American pool player to become a self businessman. And to see that life is a long journey, not a quick fix or one time cashing in.
Southpaw said:
MANY years ago, Budweiser was going to sponsor a national tour. From what I was told, "Don Mackey stunk it all up." Greediness raised its ugly head, and Budweiser pulled out, much like Hilton Hotels did several years ago.
Hilton Hotels was going to sponsor a national tour, and after the second event, they saw the writing on the wall, cancelled everything, the whole tour they had envisioned.
Of course, if pool's own culture has not respect for professional players, why would non-pool-related sponsors want to invest in this so-called "sport"?
JAM
lodini said:
Exactly. Do you think you should make more for what you do? Just a question because I'd bet that the overwhelming majority would say that they aren't paid enough. I think I should be paid more because of the money that I make for the company although I have a really easy job.
corvette1340 said:
Here is another example of pool ignorance.
I can guarantee to the readers of this thread that whatever job title Lodino holds today in the year 2008, the salary for the same job was probably 75 percent less in 1970.
Pool payouts today are the same in 2008 as they were in 1970, 1980, and 1990. Every other industry, career, and job has enjoyed a cost-of-living increase.
I rest my case.
JAM
I think it's a chicken and egg situation... which comes first?JAM said:
A great pool tour with millions of fans that then attracts national non-industry sponsors?
OR a great pool tour with dozens of national non-industry sponsors that then attracts millions of fans?
I am personally of the school of thought that a tour will need to be well-established with a fan base in place and a track record for off-the-charts exposure and attendance for a potential sponsor to really consider buying into it. That comes from my experience in the industry.
And after a little over a year on AZ Billiards, I agree with you on this... the "fan base" just isn't there.
lodini said:Or they could combine the two and become a salesperson and take the time between tournaments to go sell themselves to sponsors!
I posted a few weeks ago that pros have to become sales people. They must sell them self. They must conduct them self like people are window shopping for a pro. They have to appeal to everyone until they find a market willing to pay. The current group will suffer and must suffer to make the sport grow. That will require a lot of work for very little to no reward. Commercials, promoting etc to build the sport.
I do think I should be paid more... but unfortunately for me, I have the kind of job which other people would maim and kill to have. Therefore, they can pay me whatever the hell they want to, and I have chosen to deal with it. But, I can survive on my salary, so I will ride this one out.corvette1340 said:
lodini said:
I got it! You're a wine taster.
lodini said:
There is a good reason why some American promoters today are hosting the majority of their tournaments overseas.
Canadian Trick-Shot Artist and Pool Exhibitionist Gerry Watson recently moved to Philippines. He knows there is more appreciation for players of his caliber in that country.
If you read this forum, the negativity that is conjured up on a daily basis as it pertains to professional pool players, some of it intentionally mean-spirited in an effort to flame, it paints a clear picture why the American fan base will never happen.
JAM
Possible... but I don't think my job title existed that long ago. As sports sponsorships sky-rocketed, so did the opportunity to do what I do. Therefore, the demand for a position such as mine has gone up. Whereas, the demand for pro pool players seems to have gone down.JAM said:Here is another example of pool ignorance.
I can guarantee to the readers of this thread that whatever job title Lodino holds today in the year 2008, the salary for the same job was probably 75 percent less in 1970.
Pool payouts today are the same in 2008 as they were in 1970, 1980, and 1990. Every other industry, career, and job has enjoyed a cost-of-living increase.
I rest my case.
JAM