PUSH OR PULL
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
Technically, the weight of the cue stick is in front of your grip hand, so you are pushing it. You can call it whatever you want, but you are pushing the cue stick. That's why you need a guide in front -- your bridge hand -- to send it in the right direction. But I think this particular discussion has no value in helping anyone to play better.
patrick i am with you on the idea the cue ball only knows tip offset /cue speed/acceleration /and perhaps angle of attack
to determine what it (the cueball) is going to do
(if i am missing anything or the list is not right let me know)
yet many people billiard players in particular discuss different type of strokes
i think this is helpfull for the imagery to help the player deliver the cue in the correct manner to produce the desired effect
i wonder if players who poke at the ball or have jabby strokes feel more of a pushing feeling
instead of a pushing feeling
some players like cues with a more backward balance so the their gtip hand is in front of the balance point.
regardless of the technical definition of push vs pull players could feel like they pull the cue even though the balance point is behind their grip hand
as for no value see my post above and this speculation i made there
"i wonder if players who poke at the ball or have jabby strokes feel more of a pushing feeling
instead of a pushing feeling"
and for curiousity sake
bob
even if it does nothing to help you play better
i am curious
as an upper level player
what do you feel when you play?
are you pushing or pulling the cue?
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Do you inhale or exhale when you're shooting the ball?
The question seems more like something you would ask your opponent as they are ready to shoot to shark them.
I never thought of pushing or pulling and I'm not about to. I prefer to stroke the shot the same way I've made it a hundred times before.
It depends. With regard to the pool cue --- yes the cue is being pushed, however, with regard to your arm anatomy, it depends if you drop your elbow or not. A stroke with a fixed elbow is a pulling motion. (Ask anyone who does bicep hammer curls if they're pushing or pulling.) But as soon as you drop your elbow during your pool stroke, then you're bringing your upper arm and shoulder into play and it becomes a pushing motion.
I often explain the fixed elbow stroke to players I'm working with as a pulling motion, where you pull the bottom half of your arm up against the top half. It helps take unnecessary grip hand manipulation out of the equation and helps keep the cue straight during the stroke. You won't succeed in hitting your lower arm against your upper arm if you twist.
When I execute a power draw shot, I think of it as a hard pull, as I prefer to keep my elbow fixed and hard hit my lower arm against my upper arm. It helps keep the cue straight as it's moving through fast and at a slight angle. There's no wavering or twisting in your stroke when you think of it that way and follow that concept.
I often explain the fixed elbow stroke to players I'm working with as a pulling motion, where you pull the bottom half of your arm up against the top half. It helps take unnecessary grip hand manipulation out of the equation and helps keep the cue straight during the stroke. You won't succeed in hitting your lower arm against your upper arm if you twist.
When I execute a power draw shot, I think of it as a hard pull, as I prefer to keep my elbow fixed and hard hit my lower arm against my upper arm. It helps keep the cue straight as it's moving through fast and at a slight angle. There's no wavering or twisting in your stroke when you think of it that way and follow that concept.
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WobblyStroke
Well-known member
If you have a stroke based on a throwing motion like many do... all throws are pulls.
I get what Bob is saying about the hand in the back technically pushing the cue. However, Fran is right about the anatomical pull. Maybe it's better to think of it as pulling the part of the cue you hold on to...it just so happens that it sticks out way in front as well. If we are holding a rope instead of cue sticking out in front...the same motion is very obviously a pull.
I get what Bob is saying about the hand in the back technically pushing the cue. However, Fran is right about the anatomical pull. Maybe it's better to think of it as pulling the part of the cue you hold on to...it just so happens that it sticks out way in front as well. If we are holding a rope instead of cue sticking out in front...the same motion is very obviously a pull.
^^^pure gold^^^
I try to fart before contact with the cue ball.Do you inhale or exhale when you're shooting the ball?
The question seems more like something you would ask your opponent as they are ready to shoot to shark them.
I never thought of pushing or pulling and I'm not about to. I prefer to stroke the shot the same way I've made it a hundred times before.
A fart in mid stroke is known to cause miscues.
This is no joke I'm 75 and very gassy.
Pin
Registered
Here's an interesting twist. I managed to have one lesson with a very good snooker coach, and one idea they gave me was to imagine your backswing is pulling back an elastic band.. and then the pause.. and then the elastic band pulls the cue forward.
So in this method, the cue should feel like it's pulling your hand forward.
If you take a literal scientific approach to the question, of course it's not true (unless you allowed gravity alone to swing the cue forward).
But from the perspective of how the shot *feels*, it has some merit, and it helped improve my bad timing and weak follow-through, without using inappropriate force.
So in this method, the cue should feel like it's pulling your hand forward.
If you take a literal scientific approach to the question, of course it's not true (unless you allowed gravity alone to swing the cue forward).
But from the perspective of how the shot *feels*, it has some merit, and it helped improve my bad timing and weak follow-through, without using inappropriate force.
Push and Pull are forces. Pull is a force moving an object toward you and push is a force moving an object away from you. So in a normal forward cue stroke the start is a pull and the finish is a push. However when using the mechanical bridge, the forward stroke is all push.
Now what do you think Allen Hopkins stroke is? This could be the years longest thread in 'Ask the Instructor".
Now what do you think Allen Hopkins stroke is? This could be the years longest thread in 'Ask the Instructor".
I watched a lot of Allen Hopkins play and it's more of a poke.
Is his grip hand always in front of him or behind him?
It was 38 years ago and I don't remember.LOL
...but you are 'The Measureman'. We are counting on you.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
More gem lessons in the same thread. Nice. And fwiw, this is a type of throw as garczar mentioned, it's just that most ppl aren't refined enough in their throwing technique to get to this near physics-perfect model of a throw/sling.
It isn't just gravity that is being used and the elastic band analogy isn't far off. What is happening with snooker setups being wound so tight is that the stretch is built up across your tendons (the ends of muscles that connect muscles to bone...to save some of you a google search). In this stretched position the muscles are resisting the stretch and trying to return to their resting state/size so when you allow for this to occur after your pause, it feels like you don't do anything at all because all the force being put into the cue to get it going is provided by a combination of gravity and the stretched muscles returning to their normal size. From there you can add force in several ways as needed for the desired delivery but a simple return to rest from that wound/stretched position will do nicely on its own too.
