Push Out Order in Scotch Doubles?

[ChrisinNC]

I’m sure this comes up all the time. When playing scotch doubles alternate shot, If the opposing team passes the shot back to the team that executed the push out shot, does the player who executed the push out shoot or does his partner shoot?

Also for the opposing team, if Player A passes up on the push out shot, after the other team shoots, does player A shoot next or does his partner shoot next?

I realize all this stuff should be clarified before the match or scotch doubles tournament starts, but just wondered what the standard scotch double rules are for push out order, if there even are any?

 

[David in FL]

I’m sure this comes up all the time. When playing scotch doubles alternate shot, If the opposing team passes the shot back to the team that executed the push out shot, does the player who executed the push out shoot or does his partner shoot?

Also for the opposing team, if Player A passes up on the push out shot, after the other team shoots, does player A shoot next or does his partner shoot next?

I realize all this stuff should be clarified before the match or scotch doubles tournament starts, but just wondered what the standard scotch double rules are for push out order, if there even are any?

My contention would be that the shot goes back to the team, not the individual…

 

[ChrisinNC]

My contention would be that the shot goes back to the team, not the individual…

So you’re saying the order moves forward to the next player? That would be my assumption as well.

Problem is if this is not clear, in a crucial situation late in a match, a team that has a considerably stronger player than the partner, could claim it goes back to the player who shot the push out, if that was indeed the stronger player?

This happened to some friends of mine in a scotch doubles tournament last night and ended up working against them in deciding the match.

 

[David in FL]

So you’re saying the order moves forward to the next player? That would be my assumption as well.

Problem is if this is not clear, in a crucial situation late in a match, a team that has a considerably stronger player than the partner, could claim it goes back to the player who shot the push out, if that was indeed the stronger player? This happened to some friends of mine in a scotch doubles tournament last night and ended up working against them in deciding the match.

Correct.

A push out is a shot just like any other shot. The next shot should go to player B.

 

[SKILLZELITE]

^Agreed^

A push shot ,is still a shot , if the opposing team chooses to give the shot back ,the next shot should go to the player that was ‐not‐ the last player to shoot.

 

[MitchAlsup]

So you’re saying the order moves forward to the next player? That would be my assumption as well.

Yes,
If the braking player makes a ball and then pushes out, his inning is over, so the turn hands back to the scotch doubles partner.
If the braking player fails to make a ball, the opposing team pushes out, the braking player has already has his/her inning so control reverts to the scotch doubles partner.

Problem is if this is not clear, in a crucial situation late in a match, a team that has a considerably stronger player than the partner, could claim it goes back to the player who shot the push out, if that was indeed the stronger player?

That is one of the "crazy" aspects of scotch double play.

This happened to some friends of mine in a scotch doubles tournament last night and ended up working against them in deciding the match.

Sometimes that is the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[NathanDetroit]

Yes,
If the braking player makes a ball and then pushes out, his inning is over, so the turn hands back to the scotch doubles partner.
If the braking player fails to make a ball, the opposing team pushes out, the braking player has already has his/her inning so control reverts to the scotch doubles partner.

That is one of the "crazy" aspects of scotch double play.

Sometimes that is the way the cookie crumbles.

Did you miss the non-breaking player giving the shot back? If it is the first rack, the incoming tram must say which of them is up. That player must decide. All later racks must be player due up.

If the incoming team's player gives the shot back, was that an inning?

 

[ChrisinNC]

Did you miss the non-breaking player giving the shot back? If it is the first rack, the incoming tram must say which of them is up. That player must decide. All later racks must be player due up.

If the incoming team's player gives the shot back, was that an inning?

Yes

 

[GoldCrown]

Where’s Randy?

 

[BRussell]

In Matchroom events like World Cup and Mosconi, the player who pushed out shoots the shot if it is passed by the other team.

 

[David in FL]

In Matchroom events like World Cup and Mosconi, the player who pushed out shoots the shot if it is passed by the other team.

In Matchroom events, the five ball is purple, so…

 

[easy-e]

Phoenix is big on scotch doubles. We run it as you have to swing your cue for it to count as your inning. If "A" pushes, and the shot is given up, "B" shoots. However, on the other team, the one giving the shot back has NOT shot.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Phoenix is big on scotch doubles. We run it as you have to swing your cue for it to count as your inning. If "A" pushes, and the shot is given up, "B" shoots. However, on the other team, the one giving the shot back has NOT shot.

So the responses here have only got me more confused. Obviously how it is to be done needs to be clearly stipulated before a serious scotch doubles match or by the TD at the player’s meeting before the tournament starts.

 

[SBC]

It goes back to the person who pushed

 

[David in FL]

It goes back to the person who pushed

A push is a separate and distinct shot. It requires every bit of strategy and skill that any safety might require. Moreover, it requires that the shooter take into consideration not only the skill level of the opponent who might be playing the next shot, but that of his own partner who might also be asked to play the next shot.

For the life of me, I can’t understand why anybody would think that it would go back to the original shooter.

But, as I said, Matchroom does some weird shit anyway, so…

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

It goes back to the person who pushed

I agree and that's how I've always played it. The player who pushes out has an idea in mind when doing so, perhaps pushing to one of his strengths, so if passed back imo he should get to complete what he had in mind.

Prob not a bad idea to clarify in advance if it's an important match.

best,
brian kc

 

[David in FL]

I agree and that's how I've always played it. The player who pushes out has an idea in mind when doing so, perhaps pushing to one of his strengths, so if passed back imo he should get to complete what he had in mind.

Prob not a bad idea to clarify in advance if it's an important match.

best,
brian kc

But that’s why we play scotch doubles in the first place.

To provide the challenge of having to play with consideration for somebody else’s strengths/weaknesses, not necessarily your own.

I agree though, if there are that many people who question it, it’s probably a good question for tournament Director at the beginning of a tournament.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

But that’s why we play scotch doubles in the first place.

To provide the challenge of having to play with consideration for somebody else’s strengths/weaknesses, not necessarily your own.

I agree though, if there are that many people who question it, it’s probably a good question for tournament Director at the beginning of a tournament.

And your points are well taken, also. I have no idea about any official rules on this other than what was mentioned about matchroom. l suspect there’s gonna be some variability from one org to another.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here is a recent long thread about this....

10 ball scotch doubles question

Situation: If a player calls a shot but doesn’t pocket the ball in the correct pocket ( but the ball goes down or another ball get pocketed not in the called pocket) I understand this is handled like a push out ( such as 9 ball after the break)...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[markjames]

my question is why is this awesome format
called scotch doubles?