Push with a ferrule

L

longhair

Boyd Porter-Reynolds
Silver Member
I just moved to San Jose, CA a few weeks ago. I played a guy (Ramon?) some cheap nineball at Edgie's in Milpitas last week. I'm new there and have no special credibility, while he is a long time regular. He did something that I've never seen in person before. After the break he declared a roll-out (push) and tapped the cueball with his ferrule to move it about three inches. I didn't say anything about it, and it wasn't a big deal; he could have easily gotten the same result with his tip and was probably just being lazy.

In a twenty dollar set, is there anyone who would have made an issue of this with a stranger in a new poolroom?
 
My assumption is that any legal hit needs to be the leather (or whatever the heck you use) on the ball.

However, with their being virtually no rules for a push out, this is an interesting question.
 
I read a thread a few weeks back that said during a push out there has to be a legal hit. If the balls are close together and you push through them, then that is a foul. So I'm assuming this is also a foul.
 
jon21588 said:
I read a thread a few weeks back that said during a push out there has to be a legal hit. If the balls are close together and you push through them, then that is a foul. So I'm assuming this is also a foul.
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Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a foul. Would you have made an issue of it in the situation I described?
 
I'm not a nine ball player, but in straight pool if you tap the cue ball with your ferrule its a 15 ball penalty and re-rack and break. Its considered an unsportsmanlike conduct foul.
 
I'm really not sure. I've had guys do that to me. We weren't gambling though. I can't say that I would make a big deal of it.
 
longhair said:
Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a foul. Would you have made an issue of it in the situation I described?
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It is a foul.

Without seeing how the table was layed-out, my first thought was this: 1.) At least YOU were at the table with the chance to shoot the lowest numbered object ball OR give it back to your opponent, and
2.) He probably could have done a lot worse damage if he/she would have made an honest effort at the shot in the first place.

In a $20 set with a total stranger, I would not have made a big deal about it. It's simply not worth the hassle. If too many shenanigans such as this would have continued, I would have quietly bowed out of playing another set. Just my $.02.

Maniac
 
In a $20 set with a total stranger, I would not have made a big deal about it. It's simply not worth the hassle. If too many shenanigans such as this would have continued, I would have quietly bowed out of playing another set.
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Yup. But I would find a friendly way to tell him that it's technically a foul and I might call it in a situation where it matters.

pj
chgo
 
Maniac said:
It is a foul.

Without seeing how the table was layed-out, my first thought was this: 1.) At least YOU were at the table with the chance to shoot the lowest numbered object ball OR give it back to your opponent, and
2.) He probably could have done a lot worse damage if he/she would have made an honest effort at the shot in the first place.

In a $20 set with a total stranger, I would not have made a big deal about it. It's simply not worth the hassle. If too many shenanigans such as this would have continued, I would have quietly bowed out of playing another set. Just my $.02.

Maniac
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That's about how I saw it at the time. There were no further shenanigans, although it turned out that I was in over my head.
 
I've seen this move many, many times in the last 10 years, at least. I have never made a big thing out of it but I'm sure it would not be allowed in tournament play. For small stakes gambling I would let it go.
 
3andstop said:
I'm not a nine ball player, but in straight pool if you tap the cue ball with your ferrule its a 15 ball penalty and re-rack and break. Its considered an unsportsmanlike conduct foul.
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I was watching a old pool video called "Highlights". Efren was in a straight pool game. The two players got into a safety foul situation. Each player was taking turns doing an intentional foul. Efren finally just tapped the CB with the ferrule. I think he was then given a 15 ball penalty. Didn't know why but it was a bigger foul then hitting it with the tip. Now I know the reason. I don't think the balls were re-racked. I think the other player was given ball in hand.
 
TheBook said:
I was watching a old pool video called "Highlights". Efren was in a straight pool game. The two players got into a safety foul situation. Each player was taking turns doing an intentional foul. Efren finally just tapped the CB with the ferrule. I think he was then given a 15 ball penalty. Didn't know why but it was a bigger foul then hitting it with the tip. Now I know the reason. I don't think the balls were re-racked. I think the other player was given ball in hand.
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I believe that was against Dallas West in the 2000 U.S Open 14.1. Efren ran a 141 in that match.
 
longhair said:
I just moved to San Jose, CA a few weeks ago. I played a guy (Ramon?) some cheap nineball at Edgie's in Milpitas last week. I'm new there and have no special credibility, while he is a long time regular. He did something that I've never seen in person before. After the break he declared a roll-out (push) and tapped the cueball with his ferrule to move it about three inches. I didn't say anything about it, and it wasn't a big deal; he could have easily gotten the same result with his tip and was probably just being lazy.

In a twenty dollar set, is there anyone who would have made an issue of this with a stranger in a new poolroom?
Click to expand...

I too believe it's a foul, but I would not make a big deal about it. you could politely say I'm not going to call it, but I think that's a foul so lets agree not to use the ferrule in the future.

Please say hi to Tony & Suzie at Edgie's for me. I used to hang out there quit a bit while living in San Jose, in fact Suzie made a custom cue for my new born niece about 12-13 years ago. Ask her about it, it was awesome.

Thanks, Dave Gross

Enjoy the bay area pool scene.
 
longhair said:
I just moved to San Jose, CA a few weeks ago. I played a guy (Ramon?) some cheap nineball at Edgie's in Milpitas last week. I'm new there and have no special credibility, while he is a long time regular. He did something that I've never seen in person before. After the break he declared a roll-out (push) and tapped the cueball with his ferrule to move it about three inches. I didn't say anything about it, and it wasn't a big deal; he could have easily gotten the same result with his tip and was probably just being lazy.

In a twenty dollar set, is there anyone who would have made an issue of this with a stranger in a new poolroom?
Click to expand...
Well there must be some rules on this otherwise i would always get a perfect push out because i would just put the cb where i wanted with my hand. I have always wondered about the rules of a push out i figure it's an intentional foul so anything goes a foul is a foul.
 
here's the way i look at it, if he wants to use his ferrule, shaft, butt, bumper ect.... to roll out..... so be it. it's my choice whether to shoot or let them shoot so what's the issue??? i can see the "rules" being enforced in a tournament situation but for one on one gambling i think the rules can be more relaxed especially if the "offense" doesn't give your opponent an advantage.
 
12squared said:
I too believe it's a foul, but I would not make a big deal about it. you could politely say I'm not going to call it, but I think that's a foul so lets agree not to use the ferrule in the future.

Please say hi to Tony & Suzie at Edgie's for me. I used to hang out there quit a bit while living in San Jose, in fact Suzie made a custom cue for my new born niece about 12-13 years ago. Ask her about it, it was awesome.

Thanks, Dave Gross

Enjoy the bay area pool scene.
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I haven't met Suzie, but Tony is pretty cool. He really cares about his equiptment and he remembers everyone's name right away. It's a classy place.
 
TheBook said:
I was watching a old pool video called "Highlights". Efren was in a straight pool game. The two players got into a safety foul situation. Each player was taking turns doing an intentional foul. Efren finally just tapped the CB with the ferrule. I think he was then given a 15 ball penalty. Didn't know why but it was a bigger foul then hitting it with the tip. Now I know the reason. I don't think the balls were re-racked. I think the other player was given ball in hand.
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I believe the game you are speaking of was Efren vs Dallas West. West called the foul on him and after the ref looked into the rules it was upheld. Efren was required to re-break on that one. Actually, it is a one point foul for doing it, it is an additional 15 point foul for unsportsmanlike conduct, and it is additionally to all that, a fresh re-break employing the same two object ball to the rail requirements of the opening break. :)
 
skins said:
here's the way i look at it, if he wants to use his ferrule, shaft, butt, bumper ect.... to roll out..... so be it. it's my choice whether to shoot or let them shoot so what's the issue??? i can see the "rules" being enforced in a tournament situation but for one on one gambling i think the rules can be more relaxed especially if the "offense" doesn't give your opponent an advantage.
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TAP TAP TAP
 
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