Q: Should pro-types be allowed?
- Thread starter popman
- Start date
Gregg said:
I agree, but my experience is that a newcomer still has little chance of winning because they will assign him a big handicap and the regulars will have low handicaps. The first time I ever played 9 ball in my life was in a handicapped tournament. My opponent had to explain the rules to me and I was giving him a game on the wire.
This may be a stupid question to some of you but what determines a "professional" player?? What must one do to be considered a professional player?? Sorry, I don't mean to ask questions on someone else's thread, but I'm curious. Thanks!!
Bring 'em all in!
I care about the 'competing' aspect when I play pool. I don't care about the money, trophies, plaques, etc. I want to play against the best players.....isn't that what it's all about? I would never complain if I drew Efren Reyes first at a local weekly tournament....no siree....I would rejoice
I say let anyone play.......but I also understand and can sympathize with those who are there strictly for the prize money and want to ban pro players. I kinda feel sorry for these kinds of local players because I think they are depriving themselves of the opportunity of a lifetime (i.e. playing against pro players)......all for the imbecilic idea that the prize money is more important!!
popman said:
I care about the 'competing' aspect when I play pool. I don't care about the money, trophies, plaques, etc. I want to play against the best players.....isn't that what it's all about? I would never complain if I drew Efren Reyes first at a local weekly tournament....no siree....I would rejoice
I say let anyone play.......but I also understand and can sympathize with those who are there strictly for the prize money and want to ban pro players. I kinda feel sorry for these kinds of local players because I think they are depriving themselves of the opportunity of a lifetime (i.e. playing against pro players)......all for the imbecilic idea that the prize money is more important!!
I played Tony "the sniper" Crosby in a local handicapped 9ball tournament in Tampa last night. I enjoyed every second of my beating. Matter of fact, I tried even harder when I fell down to the losers bracket so I could get a chance to face him again. Won the next 3 matches but regretable fell short of getting another crack at him.
handicap them - they have pd a price to get better too
by not letting the better players play you have just made all the regular players handicapped. It makes you play smarter, get better and shows you exactly what level you are at and what area's of your game need improvement. where else are you going to get real pressure. Handicapp them some. (they shouldn't be allowed to steal. It is the same as letting the women in mens tournements they are trying to get better at any cost. mark I consider it a privilige, my best memorys are playing and winning agaist the best players not the worst.
by not letting the better players play you have just made all the regular players handicapped. It makes you play smarter, get better and shows you exactly what level you are at and what area's of your game need improvement. where else are you going to get real pressure. Handicapp them some. (they shouldn't be allowed to steal. It is the same as letting the women in mens tournements they are trying to get better at any cost. mark I consider it a privilige, my best memorys are playing and winning agaist the best players not the worst.
I'll take the 6 out and 2 on the wire against a pro. *laughing* I'll still lose...but hey...that's a strong handicap for anyone to give anyone else that can hold a cue. If I lose with that kinda spot...so be it. Pros welcome at the weekly tournament I play in anytime.
you have to please the crowd
From a player's standpoint, I don't care who plays. However a businessman puts on tournaments which almost always lose money to draw customers to his place. Foolish not to cater to what your crowd wants.
One option is to have big shiny trophies and very small payouts for the weekly tournaments. The people that just want to win will turn out and the pro's know you can't eat trophies.
I have watched competitors at many sports for over forty years now. They break down into different groups. Some are playing just for the pride of winning and they don't care how much handicap they get or if they are playing two blind men and a guy that has to shoot with his toes, it is still a win to them. Others want to win against fairly level competition, heads up. Still others want to play the best, beat them if they can, and they will fire off an entry fee at every opportunity to try to.
If events are to be successful the person putting them on has to understand his players and cater to the majority of them.
Hu
From a player's standpoint, I don't care who plays. However a businessman puts on tournaments which almost always lose money to draw customers to his place. Foolish not to cater to what your crowd wants.
One option is to have big shiny trophies and very small payouts for the weekly tournaments. The people that just want to win will turn out and the pro's know you can't eat trophies.
I have watched competitors at many sports for over forty years now. They break down into different groups. Some are playing just for the pride of winning and they don't care how much handicap they get or if they are playing two blind men and a guy that has to shoot with his toes, it is still a win to them. Others want to win against fairly level competition, heads up. Still others want to play the best, beat them if they can, and they will fire off an entry fee at every opportunity to try to.
If events are to be successful the person putting them on has to understand his players and cater to the majority of them.
Hu
I think the key to this topic is "simple weekly tournaments". Lets say that you do draw Efren in a 9-ball race to three. I don't think that you would get more than one or maybe two chances to shoot, which means that you paid to be one of the spectators. I don't know how much one would actually learn from playing a pro in a simple weekly tourney. jmo.
PERCEPTION: Opportunity or Dead-end.
Popman,
Pro-caliber pool players were once lowly C players like many of us. They paid their dues by practicing and competing with better players.
Personally, I don't think a tournament should have the same winner, week afterweek whether it is a small, weekly tournament or a regional tournament. The results can be modulated by changing the complexion of the tournament. Loser breaks, shorter races or perhaps a spot for certain top players. Players that win twice in one month should have to sit out for a month before being allowed to compete again.
If I can play a pro-caliber player for $10 in a weekly tournament, I feel like I am stealing something even though I may lose every match to the good player. There are a few benefits that should be considered: It is a cheap match against a very good player. I could get lucky and win and what a story I would have. I WILL learn something from this pro-caliber player that will improve my game. I get a chance to see him play a few other matches to see how he runs patterns and how he handles different situations that I find myself in. For $10, it is one of the most valuable investments I can make. If I treat the pro-caliber player with a little respect (he knows that some people don't like to see him win regularly), he may offer me some tips on my game. This has happened to me more times than I can count. With the cost of pool lessons and pool time, these encounters with pro-caliber players in weekly pool tournaments
are a blessing in disguise. If that is not enough to justify the pro-caliber's presence, think about it as ENTERTAINMENT FOR THE EVENING. The improvement that you obtain by taking a whipping against a pro-caliber player could "steel" you against your own peers in future matches of gambling or tournament play.
And when you do win a match against one of those pro-caliber players, as others have said: What a thrill!
JoeyA
popman said:
Popman,
Pro-caliber pool players were once lowly C players like many of us. They paid their dues by practicing and competing with better players.
Personally, I don't think a tournament should have the same winner, week afterweek whether it is a small, weekly tournament or a regional tournament. The results can be modulated by changing the complexion of the tournament. Loser breaks, shorter races or perhaps a spot for certain top players. Players that win twice in one month should have to sit out for a month before being allowed to compete again.
If I can play a pro-caliber player for $10 in a weekly tournament, I feel like I am stealing something even though I may lose every match to the good player. There are a few benefits that should be considered: It is a cheap match against a very good player. I could get lucky and win and what a story I would have. I WILL learn something from this pro-caliber player that will improve my game. I get a chance to see him play a few other matches to see how he runs patterns and how he handles different situations that I find myself in. For $10, it is one of the most valuable investments I can make. If I treat the pro-caliber player with a little respect (he knows that some people don't like to see him win regularly), he may offer me some tips on my game. This has happened to me more times than I can count. With the cost of pool lessons and pool time, these encounters with pro-caliber players in weekly pool tournaments
are a blessing in disguise. If that is not enough to justify the pro-caliber's presence, think about it as ENTERTAINMENT FOR THE EVENING. The improvement that you obtain by taking a whipping against a pro-caliber player could "steel" you against your own peers in future matches of gambling or tournament play.
And when you do win a match against one of those pro-caliber players, as others have said: What a thrill!
JoeyA
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ShootingArts said:
My wheelhouse.
I gotta tell you getting a chance to play against Tony Crosby last night was one of the biggest thrills I've had in pool (and I took a game from him! WOOTWOOT). Crazy to miss that kind of experience, and opportunity over a couple bucks. R U kidding??? Most A level playeres wont even play with you unless its for $50 sets... getting a shot at a pro for a $10 buy in??? I'M IN ALL DAY.
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exactly how I feel
If I get a chance to play a champion in a tournament or event, I consider it a cheap investment. Anything I put into entry fees, I plan to take more back out eventually so I don't really sweat a few dollars here and there. Never know how far you are going to rise to the occasion until you put yourself into the fire either. Some of my biggest wins came when nobody with any sense gave me a chance. Of course, other big wins came because I didn't know or care who I was playing!
Hu
Beware_of_Dawg said:
If I get a chance to play a champion in a tournament or event, I consider it a cheap investment. Anything I put into entry fees, I plan to take more back out eventually so I don't really sweat a few dollars here and there. Never know how far you are going to rise to the occasion until you put yourself into the fire either. Some of my biggest wins came when nobody with any sense gave me a chance. Of course, other big wins came because I didn't know or care who I was playing!
Hu
As I said before, I would love to take a shot at a pro. However, I would not want to go every week to get my brains beat in. The ideal situatiojn to me would be to have 2 tournaments, or one night a week where the pros can play, then you have the best of both worlds. I am probably a C player, and have no real chance against an A player or above. I think tournaments are for competition and improvement. I would love to play them once in a while, but I would not like to play a tournament every week in which I would not be even slightly competitive in. Obviously I need to get better, but that is how i see it now. Would love to play them here and there, yet still have a more basic tournament to play in.
Who wouldn't want to play tiger woods in golf once. However, a player who shoots 85-95 will make things an exercise in futility after a while.
Who wouldn't want to play tiger woods in golf once. However, a player who shoots 85-95 will make things an exercise in futility after a while.
If it is an OPEN tournament... YES.. that is what OPEN means.
Anyone can play.
Most pool players will not even know any of the top 10 players by sight, let alone any of the top 50. If they do it is because they've seen the pros play LIVE and PAID for the pleasure.
Getting an opportunity to see UP Close the game of a Pro is (IMO) a pleasure and is worth the experience.
I, too, spent time in Beechwood in Cincinnati OH and Michael's in Fairfield OH and Airways in Dayton OH. Lots of great action and tons of great players and then there was a little 16 year old kid named Jason Miller with his buddy Joe Brown, Gary Speath, Rick Garrison and the Carelli brothers.
Bucky Bell and Donny "the Cincinnat Kid" Anderson were regulars at Michaels and Beechmont.
Eric Durbin, Tommy and his Father Whitey Stephenson also spent a lot of time in action at Michaels.
Plus in the bigger Monthly events and even bigger yearly events, Cincinnati and the surrounding area would get the greats from Louisville, Lexington, Indianapolis and Columbus.
By the way, Clem Metts, Joey Speath, Eddie Taylor, Bob Johnson and some of the greatest players of the 60s and 70s were regulars at Murgaurds Family Pool hall in downtown Cincinnati.
Anyone can play.
Most pool players will not even know any of the top 10 players by sight, let alone any of the top 50. If they do it is because they've seen the pros play LIVE and PAID for the pleasure.
Getting an opportunity to see UP Close the game of a Pro is (IMO) a pleasure and is worth the experience.
I, too, spent time in Beechwood in Cincinnati OH and Michael's in Fairfield OH and Airways in Dayton OH. Lots of great action and tons of great players and then there was a little 16 year old kid named Jason Miller with his buddy Joe Brown, Gary Speath, Rick Garrison and the Carelli brothers.
Bucky Bell and Donny "the Cincinnat Kid" Anderson were regulars at Michaels and Beechmont.
Eric Durbin, Tommy and his Father Whitey Stephenson also spent a lot of time in action at Michaels.
Plus in the bigger Monthly events and even bigger yearly events, Cincinnati and the surrounding area would get the greats from Louisville, Lexington, Indianapolis and Columbus.
By the way, Clem Metts, Joey Speath, Eddie Taylor, Bob Johnson and some of the greatest players of the 60s and 70s were regulars at Murgaurds Family Pool hall in downtown Cincinnati.
mantis99 said:
No offense, but I know from experience that most of the tournaments out there are full of C and B level players, and few and far between are the ones loaded down with talent.
If a C player insists on having a chance to win money without putting in the hours of practice that requires, there are many, many, many bar tournaments that they can play and do well in.
Russ
Weekly Tournament
West End Billiards weekly tournament,,,32 man full field every week for a few years with no letting up / players were,,,,Miz, hopkins, fusco, martin, colavita, Fleming, Sammy Jones, Robles, Guzman,Tascarella, Efren played, Rodney, Ginky, Jeanette lee, Lori Jon, Hodan. Names that elude me right now.Many world class players in town came to play on Tuesday ..Best Shortstops around..They even let me play .You had to be at least A- class level to play or you went to thursday night b-class with no questions...you were not playing Tuesday. The thursday night players worked their butt off to get to play on Tue if there was ever an opening. You earned your rank as it should be.
Downstairs there was always action...legendary place
If I forgot names I am sorry my memory is shot from playing pool in West End many nights into sunlight
Flex said:
West End Billiards weekly tournament,,,32 man full field every week for a few years with no letting up / players were,,,,Miz, hopkins, fusco, martin, colavita, Fleming, Sammy Jones, Robles, Guzman,Tascarella, Efren played, Rodney, Ginky, Jeanette lee, Lori Jon, Hodan. Names that elude me right now.Many world class players in town came to play on Tuesday ..Best Shortstops around..They even let me play .You had to be at least A- class level to play or you went to thursday night b-class with no questions...you were not playing Tuesday. The thursday night players worked their butt off to get to play on Tue if there was ever an opening. You earned your rank as it should be.
Downstairs there was always action...legendary place
If I forgot names I am sorry my memory is shot from playing pool in West End many nights into sunlight