I'm right there with ya again bro. You're spot on.
Question about table time
- Thread starter dabarbr
- Start date
I'm right there with ya again bro. You're spot on.
No, this thread is just more proof that "businessmen" will do anything to gouge their customers. Your overhead is per table. Your fees should be per table. More people per table is good for business.
"We can't afford to recover the tables"; "We can't afford to buy new balls"; "We can't afford to pay someone to clean the tables and balls"; "We can't afford to buy more house cues"; "We can't afford to get better table lights"; "We can't afford to get the tables leveled"; "and, by the way, the hourly rates just went up"
...I've heard 'em all.
Mark
I agree here. If you have 4 people playing and everything being equal, then each player is only getting 15 minutes per hour of playing time. Should they pay the same as someone who is practicing alone for an hour? No, it should be per table. If you have 8 people on a table at $10 per person, then that is $80 per hour.
I know an owner who has been in business for well over 20 years. He now has free pool 5 or 6 days a week and has free tournaments. Yes, I said free tournaments paying cash. He is doing very well and making his profit from the bar and food.
A stand alone pool hall without a bar wouldn't be able to do this. Pool is the recreation that bring people in to buy food and beverage. Do you want to pay per person to watch a football game in a bar? I don't think so.
JMHO
go open a poolroom, and then you come tell me "how it is"
by the way, all my tables are maintained, and cleaned. With centennial balls, simonis 860, blue dot cue balls.
More people per table, should cost more. 2 people bowling costs more, 2 people golfing costs more, 2 people skating costs more.
I have no doubt maintaining a profitable pool room is very difficult especially in these economic times, but your examples do not compare.
Bowling and golf are not charged by the hour. There is a big difference. Bowling is charged by the game, golf by the number of holes, skating is not split time. The more people on a pool table, the less they get for their money. How can you compare these?
One reason most bar players play 8-ball is because they want to get the most value for their money. It is difficult and expensive to play 9-ball on a pay table.
I've been to rooms that charge both ways.
Guess which one I go to the most.
Correct me if I'm wrong but but bowling alleys and
golf courses do not charge by the hour either,
rather by the game (or holes).
Guess which one I go to the most.
Correct me if I'm wrong but but bowling alleys and
golf courses do not charge by the hour either,
rather by the game (or holes).
if i had a hall i'd charge by the hour per table not by the number of people playing at the table.... i'd get no "more" wear and tear on a table, no more electric, etc with more players. i think fewer players get their 'fill' quicker than if they have to share the table with others. in fact the more players that play the better the chance of them staying longer so they can all get their 'fill' ......this translates into more players = more time leasing the equipment = more money with less gripe.....i'd just adjust my base rate to accommodate that...i really don't see any reason to charge each person.....
now taking all into consideration i would put a limit of 4 that could be at a table at one time so the whole 'gang' don't come in and just hang around and watch their buddies play and disturb other tables etc.....and i would only offer freebies to those who lease a table to play....except for my loyal regulars of course.......
......as for Marcus's Golf analogy well i don't think you can even compare the two....totally different situations......sorry Marcus, been around Golf and pool for a long time and though they have some "similarities" the situation regarding fees for both don't......do you think that you could talk each person in a foursome to pay for a full round of golf if they all understood that not only would they have to take turns shooting each successive shot but that any one or more of them might not even get a chance to shoot on some holes?....it's just not the same game.....each player gets to play the 'full' game himself.....
skins ------------- doesn't want to own a pool hall...............
now taking all into consideration i would put a limit of 4 that could be at a table at one time so the whole 'gang' don't come in and just hang around and watch their buddies play and disturb other tables etc.....and i would only offer freebies to those who lease a table to play....except for my loyal regulars of course.......
......as for Marcus's Golf analogy well i don't think you can even compare the two....totally different situations......sorry Marcus, been around Golf and pool for a long time and though they have some "similarities" the situation regarding fees for both don't......do you think that you could talk each person in a foursome to pay for a full round of golf if they all understood that not only would they have to take turns shooting each successive shot but that any one or more of them might not even get a chance to shoot on some holes?....it's just not the same game.....each player gets to play the 'full' game himself.....
skins ------------- doesn't want to own a pool hall...............
I CERTAINLY BOWL BY THE HOUR....A LOT OF HOUSES ARE CHARGING THAT WAY NOW. OR OFFERING IT AS AN OPTION.
YES, GOLF IS BY THE GAME, BUT IT IS ALSO PER PERSON.
SKATING IS A PER PERSON FEE.
I GIVE UP....... POOL IS TOO EXPENSIVE OF A HOBBY. ALL YOU GUYS SHOULD GO DO SOMETHING ELSE, SO WE CAN JUST CLOSE ALL THE ROOMS AND BE DONE WITH IT. JUST DON'T TAKE UP GOLF OR BOWLING, THEY MAKE POOL LOOK CHEAP.
Marcus
For all these people responding that they would rather pay by the hour, do you want single player rates too? $8/hour is very reasonable for 2 or 3 or 4 players, but there is no way I would pay that to practice by myself for 5 hours at $8/hour.
The pool players posting on this forum do not make up the majority of the market for which the pool hall needs to stay in business.
The pool hall should have a pay scheme which keeps the local players happy along with keeping the local bangers happy as well.
I think if I were going to try to do it and make it work, I would have one player rates and then 2+ being the same rate. However that only works for a certain type of room. Not all rooms are the same. It is much more difficult to rely on table time than food and alcohol. Table rates can and do get affected by this.
Best of luck Marcus.
The pool players posting on this forum do not make up the majority of the market for which the pool hall needs to stay in business.
The pool hall should have a pay scheme which keeps the local players happy along with keeping the local bangers happy as well.
I think if I were going to try to do it and make it work, I would have one player rates and then 2+ being the same rate. However that only works for a certain type of room. Not all rooms are the same. It is much more difficult to rely on table time than food and alcohol. Table rates can and do get affected by this.
Best of luck Marcus.
there is a logic behind it
i have been running (and owned) a pool room for years. charging by the person is the most fair way because if you have a flat table rate, let say $12, then if there is only one person at the table they are paying $12 per hour which is way to high. this also help slower rooms to as it promotes groups getting more than one table. even though the room doesnt profit anymore by having them take mulitple tables, it gives the room a more "busy" look to it which is likely to draw in additional customers
Tony
i have been running (and owned) a pool room for years. charging by the person is the most fair way because if you have a flat table rate, let say $12, then if there is only one person at the table they are paying $12 per hour which is way to high. this also help slower rooms to as it promotes groups getting more than one table. even though the room doesnt profit anymore by having them take mulitple tables, it gives the room a more "busy" look to it which is likely to draw in additional customers
Tony
I'll try to answer this one...........If you got in by yourself you expect to pay for one person. If you play against somebody, he pays for one person also.
The owner doesn't get a cheaper lease on his building if less people play pool on a given month. The owner has to pay the lease regardless of how many people drink, play pool, or buy food. It's simple, you play you pay, that's it.
The room I play in has a cap of $10 per hour. It's 3.50 per hour per person, but if you have 3 or more people, it's 10 per hour. So, if you have a group of 8 guys, your better off getting 2 tables next to each other, it's the same rate.
If you don't want to pay for pool, stay home.
If tables were rented by the hour with no regard to how many people were playing, room owners would charge about 10 or 12 per hour. Now how would you like it if you went in to practice by yourself?
Like every other decision a business makes, how to charge is a compromise that hopefully most customers find fair.
Having only a table rate will seem unfair to the single player, but a bargain for large groups. Charging by the person has the opposite effect. But which of these or some other method yields over time the environment the owner is looking for?
Charging only for the table tends to fill up the place (good for food & drink revenue) but makes for a crowded, noisy room on casual players that serious players will probably avoid.
Rather than piss and moan about the way someone chooses to run their business, why not just spend your time and money at a place that does it more to your liking? If you can't find one, you might want to ask yourself why not?
Having only a table rate will seem unfair to the single player, but a bargain for large groups. Charging by the person has the opposite effect. But which of these or some other method yields over time the environment the owner is looking for?
Charging only for the table tends to fill up the place (good for food & drink revenue) but makes for a crowded, noisy room on casual players that serious players will probably avoid.
Rather than piss and moan about the way someone chooses to run their business, why not just spend your time and money at a place that does it more to your liking? If you can't find one, you might want to ask yourself why not?
Let me argue in the other direction::
When I am playing another person, we might average 1 shot every 30 seconds or so. When I am practicing by myself, I often shoot a ball about every 6 seconds. Therefore the table is getting maybe as much as 5 times the wear when on person is practicing than when 2,3,4,...8 people are actually playing. IN additoiin, practice may have long series of seldom played shots--like jumps, massés, kicks and banks--much more than what might be normal in everyday or even tourneyment play.
Therefore, one person at the table all by himself is likely to cause more wear on the equiptment than any number of people playing by normal pool rules.
Now finding a happy medium where that one person will still come in to practice, and the groups will still come in to play is deap into business psychology .
Another issue occurs when on person comes in to practice and after a while a friend shows up (unexpectedly) and practice changes into play.
Overall, flate rate on a table makes the most sense (to me)--and for establishments where refreshments and food are sered, take in excess revenues from those sources.
way too high?? i don't think so....i think that's very fair....an hour is longer than people think for one person....you can get in allot of play in an hour....one thing you could do is have special rates to draw more business in slow times like maybe weekday rates being a bit cheaper than weeknight ones and same for the weekends......lots of options.....that's how the halls around me were when i was growing up....
skins ----------- would pay $12 an hour for good atmosphere and equipment......
ok, here is a scenario for ya: you have 6 diamond tables at a cost of 4800 each. you have a lease payment of 1500 a month. you only have one paid employee costing you 1400 a month. utilities and maintenence another 500 a month. so we are up to 3400 a month, not counting the table costs. now lets say 22 people are in the room. flat table rate of 8.00 and hour. 5 tables have 4 people on them and one table has 2 people on it. Now lets say its 3.00 an hour per person, which method is making more money? I would rather pay by the person per hour. I have played on a couple tables that were flat table rate, and I got ripped off pretty good. unless you know how far in debt the room owner is, its really unfair to say they are just out to gouge us.
Joe
There is no way I could afford that. If you could pay $12 an hour to play pool, you sir have way way more money than most people. I pay $3.00 an hour, and it pretty much drains my wallet by the end of the week. Maybe if I wasnt married and didnt have a son, and rent, and bills, I could afford it, but even then, I would find a cheaper place to play.
Joe
Table prices
I have run many rooms and played in many rooms for too many years. I plan on opening my own in the near future, and my rates will be > $6 per hour for 1 player, $10 per hour for 2 and $12 hour for 3, no charge for more per table. Most customers play for approx 1 to 1 1/2 hours each time they play and it is usually 2 players. I will not charge for the others keeping them company.
Experienced players usually play more than this, so a day or weekly pass with a special rate works well.
I have run many rooms and played in many rooms for too many years. I plan on opening my own in the near future, and my rates will be > $6 per hour for 1 player, $10 per hour for 2 and $12 hour for 3, no charge for more per table. Most customers play for approx 1 to 1 1/2 hours each time they play and it is usually 2 players. I will not charge for the others keeping them company.
Experienced players usually play more than this, so a day or weekly pass with a special rate works well.
They should be charged - can 5 guys come in and take turns playing 2 at time - lol - poolrms should charge each player by the hr .