People always talk about "Secret pro aiming systems" Imho I think aiming and making shots is just shooting shots repeatedly, adjusting as needed until you can make it consistently. Keep shooting the shots to build muscle memory. After that is is all concentration. So, Practice shooting shots and practice maintaining concentration...
Question for "feel" aimers, which comes first?
- Thread starter CueAndMe
- Start date
JimS,
Good to hear that you had a great practice. It is great feeling to be able make those long hard cuts into corners. After a few shots one can zero in and start feeling the contours of the table the angle from OB to CB and without looking sensing the far away pocket. I love to hammer those shots in at break neck speeds.
Good to hear that you had a great practice. It is great feeling to be able make those long hard cuts into corners. After a few shots one can zero in and start feeling the contours of the table the angle from OB to CB and without looking sensing the far away pocket. I love to hammer those shots in at break neck speeds.
Got me, I don't think about it. I just get down on the shot and let instinct do it's thing. If it doesn't look (feel) right once I'm down, I get up and try again.bluepepper said:
I'm not sure I even aim anymore. I definitely play by feel and always have, though I still believe an understanding of the physics and mechanics behind pool is very important. The feeling I get when I know the shot is correct is hard to describe, and I wonder if it differs for everyone. For me I guess it's kind of like the friction between the CB and OB.
I've always heard that you should find the pin-sized contact point on the object ball, but to me this seems like exerting conscious effort which usually isn't a good thing. So if I do this I'm really not aware of it. I think what I do is closer to Steve Davis's method of fractional aiming and then adjusting by feel, but I don't actually try to do it.
Some awesome references on aiming (and everything else):
The Inner Game of Tennis - W. Timothy Gallwey
A Quiet Eye - Joan Vickers, PBS
The Science of Pocket Billiards - Jack H. Koehler
Pleasures of Small Motions - Bob Fancher
I've always heard that you should find the pin-sized contact point on the object ball, but to me this seems like exerting conscious effort which usually isn't a good thing. So if I do this I'm really not aware of it. I think what I do is closer to Steve Davis's method of fractional aiming and then adjusting by feel, but I don't actually try to do it.
Some awesome references on aiming (and everything else):
The Inner Game of Tennis - W. Timothy Gallwey
A Quiet Eye - Joan Vickers, PBS
The Science of Pocket Billiards - Jack H. Koehler
Pleasures of Small Motions - Bob Fancher
Last edited:
David Beck said:
Let us not forget "The Tao of Sports". One of the quotes in the book from Yogi Berra, "You can't hit and think at the same time".
The Dazzler
New member
predator said:Some people here claim that you're a hopeless player if you don't use a proper concious aiming system. Can't understand why.
Daryl himself stepped in and explained how he does it. To me, that method seems far more natural than complicated aiming systems. That's how I do it also, but obviously not quite that well...yet...
Btw Daryl, congratulations once again on your big title and a big thanks for the posts here. They really are an eye opener.
The bottom line is that we should stop searching for magic tricks to radically improve our game. There aren't any. Only thousands of hours of concentrated and structured practice time will do it. And even then, 99.999999% percent of us will never get a shot at winning a pro event.
Thanks Predator for your comments.
I dont come on here too often to be honest...usually quite busy (business wise)
But when i get chance, i like to reply and hopefully help players along the way. After all, its by listening to, and watching better players than myself why i have got to the level where i am at right now.....along with a million hours practice too lol.
Keep shooting,
Daryl.
The Dazzler
New member
Wolven said:
Hi Wolven,
Im glad your friends are cool with my posts lol
On a personal note, i try to keep my game as simple as possible....less things to go wrong...it works most of the time for me anyway. lol
The thing what you mention about the chess study is bang on...i think this would apply to most things......top players see situations as a "chunk" not individual things one after the other.
Same with any profession....a top carpenter would see replacing a whole floor as a "chunk", he would know exactly what needs to be done....where as a DIY man would have to go through everything one by one in order to make sure he does it correctly (and then most would mess it up lol)
Glad i am of some help to you guys.
Daryl.
What you say
We don't need no stinkin' systems...
In the fabulous book "99 Critical Shots in Pool", Ray Martin talks about the "eye, arm, and brain computer". That is the only aiming system (which isn't really a system) that I use, along with some visualization on the more difficult and unusual shots (that is, those I haven't practiced).
Read the book, if you haven't already. And, heck, even if you have, read it again. Mr. Martin explains it far more eloquently than I ever could.
In the fabulous book "99 Critical Shots in Pool", Ray Martin talks about the "eye, arm, and brain computer". That is the only aiming system (which isn't really a system) that I use, along with some visualization on the more difficult and unusual shots (that is, those I haven't practiced).
Read the book, if you haven't already. And, heck, even if you have, read it again. Mr. Martin explains it far more eloquently than I ever could.
Hi Daryl,
Yes, it applies to life in general. Subconscious Mastery is the way to go.
I try to keep things simple as well. However, since I have not played the game very long I go from running racks to missing everything, and back, hehe. So, nothing is really simple for me, yet.
Thanks and Good Luck in your competitions.
Yes, it applies to life in general. Subconscious Mastery is the way to go.
I try to keep things simple as well. However, since I have not played the game very long I go from running racks to missing everything, and back, hehe. So, nothing is really simple for me, yet.
Thanks and Good Luck in your competitions.
Dazzler
DAZZLER: Thanks for taking the time to articulate how you aim/shoot.
It is nice of you as a professional pool player to share your technique and insight.
Some pros do share their "secrets".
Come back and visit again when you have time and drop a pool tip on us mere mortals. :smile:
JoeyA
The Dazzler said:
DAZZLER: Thanks for taking the time to articulate how you aim/shoot.
It is nice of you as a professional pool player to share your technique and insight.
Some pros do share their "secrets".
Come back and visit again when you have time and drop a pool tip on us mere mortals. :smile:
JoeyA
Working on my telekinetic powers to will the ob into the pockets.
So far its not working out too well.
I do what Jimmy Reid does for a start. I stand back a little further from the table than normal. I find that giving yourself a little more distance helps sight the path a bit better. Also something that I picked up from watching the tape of Jimmy. I try and remember not to pop up after a shot. I have no idea why it works, but it does. Anyone know of a good book or tape that simplifies the
diamond system, I would appreciate hearing from you. I was never great at math and some of the diamond systems make me feel as tho I need to bring a slide rule to the table with me.
So far its not working out too well.
I do what Jimmy Reid does for a start. I stand back a little further from the table than normal. I find that giving yourself a little more distance helps sight the path a bit better. Also something that I picked up from watching the tape of Jimmy. I try and remember not to pop up after a shot. I have no idea why it works, but it does. Anyone know of a good book or tape that simplifies the
diamond system, I would appreciate hearing from you. I was never great at math and some of the diamond systems make me feel as tho I need to bring a slide rule to the table with me.
Last edited:
Semantics can be important so bear with me for a moment. I wonder if the word "feel" is the right word. Perhaps "estimate" might be better. Here is why.
Some men are good at picking up members of the opposite sex. If we ask them how they do it they say, "I just have a feel for it." No pun intended. After years of study it can be determined what these men do. Actually, they are more responsive to the subtle signals that a woman sends out that she finds the male potentially interesting. Women, not men, often (but not always) initiate the successful lets get together dance. Learning to estimate when the right signals are being sent is an important part of the dance. It is counter intuitive but when tested it is found to be highly useful -- given particular goals. When males with excellent pick up skills are asked how they do it they are not aware of the principals involved. What they say is, "Here, hold my beer, and watch this." Then they proceed to pick up the woman who is sending signals. If he does not know how he does it he cannot improve or pass on his skills.
So what is my point? It is easy to use the word "feel" for doing things successfully when we do not know what we are doing that works. It takes some effort to attempt to discover what the subconscious mind studies when it estimates how to make a shot. This estimation process can become so good over time that the person is positive the shot will go in. In other situations there is less of this feeling of being positive. To study what leads to feelings of confidence versus feeling of possible failure could help the individual discover how they estimate and thus enable them to improve their game and perhaps ours, assuming they are willing to share.
I know that people are not going to change their vocabularly because of one post but perhaps some will try to think about how they know, not what they know. The post preceding this one is a good attempt. He seems to say get a better perspective on the shot -- Hmmmm
Some men are good at picking up members of the opposite sex. If we ask them how they do it they say, "I just have a feel for it." No pun intended. After years of study it can be determined what these men do. Actually, they are more responsive to the subtle signals that a woman sends out that she finds the male potentially interesting. Women, not men, often (but not always) initiate the successful lets get together dance. Learning to estimate when the right signals are being sent is an important part of the dance. It is counter intuitive but when tested it is found to be highly useful -- given particular goals. When males with excellent pick up skills are asked how they do it they are not aware of the principals involved. What they say is, "Here, hold my beer, and watch this." Then they proceed to pick up the woman who is sending signals. If he does not know how he does it he cannot improve or pass on his skills.
So what is my point? It is easy to use the word "feel" for doing things successfully when we do not know what we are doing that works. It takes some effort to attempt to discover what the subconscious mind studies when it estimates how to make a shot. This estimation process can become so good over time that the person is positive the shot will go in. In other situations there is less of this feeling of being positive. To study what leads to feelings of confidence versus feeling of possible failure could help the individual discover how they estimate and thus enable them to improve their game and perhaps ours, assuming they are willing to share.
I know that people are not going to change their vocabularly because of one post but perhaps some will try to think about how they know, not what they know. The post preceding this one is a good attempt. He seems to say get a better perspective on the shot -- Hmmmm
Last edited:
bluepepper said:
I look at the shot while standing up. If the shot is at all difficult, I will take one look down the line from the OB to the pocket. Then I will walk back to a spot behind the CB on the line it will be taking to the OB. At this point I will sort of visualize a ghost cue ball, which will mainly be showing me the FULLNESS of hit. (1/2 ball? more, less?). This is just used as a general guide for my stance. I then carefully get down into my stance being certain to maintain my alignment on the line of the cueball. Once I'm down on the shot, I devote all my attention to vision. I specifically do NOT want to "feel" like I am aiming correctly. I want to SEE it. I will semi-consciously be asking myself "is this the way it should LOOK in order for the cueball to go that way". Ideally, I will not pull the trigger until that moment of certainty says "that definitely looks right". I find a lot of times that deciding that it "feels" right means that I just ran out of patience to make sure that it looks right.
Using this method, I think I have excellent accuracy, assuming I can deliver an effort-free straight stroke! (Not always easy to do)
My $0.02
KMRUNOUT
JimS said:
Agreed on both counts. Hal, though I love the guy, should not call the guy a loser, but Febreze is even worse in my opinion. Hey Febreze, you talk to your Grandfather like that because that is what Hal is the equivalent to?
Good thread by the way and thanks to Daryl for giving a pro's perspective.
Blue Hog ridr said:
Little Joe Villalpando's Pool IQ DVD set, especially the kick shot volume, I found to be helpful and worth the money. He can show you a great deal. No slide rule required.
Freddy the Beard's work on Banking is also worth the money from a slightly different perspectice on CB control.
I recall winning a small tournament in the early 90's and putting my winnings back into my game, so I booked a lesson with Dan Louie. Knowing I needed more knowledge of cueball path using more than 1 rail, I asked him what happens after contact with multiple rails and he said, "Shoot a million of them and you will find out."
At the time, I thought that was what I was paying him for...just tell me what happens. In retrospect, I see what he was saying. It just takes lots of practice.
When I practice, many times, I can one or two stroke a rack. Totally by feel. When I am serious, I take more time, but just saying I do not need much time to take the shot.
Before addressing the ball, I look at the 3rd and 4th ball to finalize how I will hit my object ball...what speed/power, what english, what stroke, and which side of my 2nd ball I want to be on to achieve shape on my 3rd ball for the 4th.
Like someone mentioned before, when you are learning to read, you sound out each letter, then each syllable. After mastery of reading, you can have letters that make no sense inside a word, but as long as the beginning and end are recognizable, then you will be able to read the word.
The same holds true for shooting. Rarely do I need to go sight a ball, unless it is an extreme angle or close to a rail. When I am down on my shot, I have already decided all the things I need to do from the paragraph above, then adjust my aim depending on any english. So I get from A to Z cutting out a lot of things beginners need to do.
I can actually just line up my cue and know where to hit the ball. Does it work all the time? Obviously not.
Lack of practice means it takes longer to get into that mindset, and also means that there may be more missing at intermediately hard shots, whereas if I am playing all the time, those come easier too.
At the time, I thought that was what I was paying him for...just tell me what happens. In retrospect, I see what he was saying. It just takes lots of practice.
When I practice, many times, I can one or two stroke a rack. Totally by feel. When I am serious, I take more time, but just saying I do not need much time to take the shot.
Before addressing the ball, I look at the 3rd and 4th ball to finalize how I will hit my object ball...what speed/power, what english, what stroke, and which side of my 2nd ball I want to be on to achieve shape on my 3rd ball for the 4th.
Like someone mentioned before, when you are learning to read, you sound out each letter, then each syllable. After mastery of reading, you can have letters that make no sense inside a word, but as long as the beginning and end are recognizable, then you will be able to read the word.
The same holds true for shooting. Rarely do I need to go sight a ball, unless it is an extreme angle or close to a rail. When I am down on my shot, I have already decided all the things I need to do from the paragraph above, then adjust my aim depending on any english. So I get from A to Z cutting out a lot of things beginners need to do.
I can actually just line up my cue and know where to hit the ball. Does it work all the time? Obviously not.
Lack of practice means it takes longer to get into that mindset, and also means that there may be more missing at intermediately hard shots, whereas if I am playing all the time, those come easier too.