its just the tanning process. i seriously doubt they used cow, the leather is just not good for tips. they use wb for a reason.
Question for old timers@
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Well, I'm not sure. From having many Champion tips over the decades, minus the fiber pad, they are nowhere near as thick as the well-known buffalo tips, including LePro and Triangle. Not sure about the differences in the tanning methods that would make the color so much different. I'm more convinced by the thickness of the tip. Also, buffalo tips tend to be medium hard to hard. The old genuine Champions? Very soft, compared to either LePro, Triangle, or the Water Buffalo brand. I still think there's a possibility the old French man used cow hide. Those old Champion tips reminds me more of my leather belts than the buffalo tips.
Elkmasters are soft as hell and they're made from wb. They don't use cow hide. Vegetable vs. chrome tanning yields totally different hardness AND color/tint. Don't believe me here's Freddie a few yrs back:https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/water-buffalo-tips-reality.456650/ i think you had a reply in there too. btw, they don't use old mature bulls to get tip leather, the good stuff comes from the shoulder area from WB calves. i'm done, had enough....................................
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Great article. Thanks for sharing.
And if a Chevy was better, no one would be driving Fords. Product quality is always subjective. The chalk preference issue is a good example.
Not really. Some value a coarse grain tip that doesn't require a lot of maintenance, and doesn't spin the cue ball too much. Those would prefer a single layer tip, likely Triangle or Elk Master. Efren and Earl have played Elk Master for years. Mike Sigel used LePros his entire playing career. Others want a lot more spin, which the layered tips give you. In the world of tips, there's no such thing as superior. It more depends on the player.
The layered tips do spin the cue ball more. It's why I try a lot of them, but generally go back to the Triangle.
just think for a second. if you hit the ball in the same spot why would a layered tip make the cue ball spin faster.
and even if it did, which it doesnt, you would not want it to spin faster as that would also mean you would have less control over the spin as its rate change would be harder to predict.
and even if it did, which it doesnt, you would not want it to spin faster as that would also mean you would have less control over the spin as its rate change would be harder to predict.
The question has been asked a lot of times. I suspect the layers of glue that attach the layers of leather have something to do with more grip on the layered tips. But I'll go with the opinion of Mike Sigel, when I asked him about layered tips. He said, I don't use them, because I over-hit them; they spin the cue ball too much.
In the early days (1960's and 70's) just about everybody was using Elk Masters. They were cheap and they were good. Champion tips were coveted back then and I had two boxes of them that I used to sell for $5 each. Good money in those days.
Not a lot of history out there about the original man behind these, but I have gathered that there are two types of Champion tips. The Chandivert (that came later) and those before Chandivert (the much better of the two). I have played a lot with both.
Chandivert
Older tips below. I have searched and secured 3 boxes of these over the years, as I love them that much
Best tips I have ever used. Once I install them on my shafts, I use some black fiebings dye on the burnished sidewall. This makes them black (obviously) and completely alleviates any mushrooming while not effecting the tip/hit at all. They do have a distinct hit and sound to them. I can understand why these had much love by players of the time, not so for the Chandivert. They last a VERY long time on a shaft as they never get any glazing/hardness and hold chalk without tools grinding them down.The original poster asked what was on the cues of the old timers back then, it was these.
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Huh? No they don't. I get just as much juice with a Triangle/LePro as any layered. Where do people get this shit?? They may last longer and be more consistent tip-to-tip but you don't get any more spin.
Your mileage may vary. In my experience, layered tips do put more spin on the cue ball. It's not just my opinion. Mike Sigel was house pro at my favorite room a number of years ago. He and I talked about a lot of equipment, including tips. His opinion was that layered tips spin the cue ball more, and that's why he didn't use them. In his words, he overhit with them, and preferred to stay with LePros. This is Mike Sigel, not Joe Hacker. Both he and I use a very low cue action, and more than average english on shots.
It could be that your usual stroke is different than mine. You might hit much more center cue ball than I do, and other variables are at play. One piece of advice I would give you is to be more tolerant of opinions different than yours, obviating the need to call such opinions shit.
Have a nice day.