Question to the cuemakers or the knowledge people

WheatCues said:
The tip staying on the cueball longer is shaft squirt this stops cueball squirt... it's either one or the other.. there is no compromise with the physics aspect of it !!!

It's kind of like the slingshot method... notice how long the taper is on laminated shafts !!!!





- Eddie Wheat
Click to expand...
The tip staying longer on the cueball has more to do with the shaft's stiffness.
It does not "STOP CUEBALL SQUIRT". NOTHING stops cueball squirt except perfect center hit.

The taper of the aftermarket shafts have more to do with preference than cueball deflection characteristics. After all the Z shaft has a billiard taper while 314 has long-cylindrical taper.
 
JoeyInCali said:
The tip staying longer on the cueball has more to do with the shaft's stiffness.
It does not "STOP CUEBALL SQUIRT". NOTHING stops cueball squirt except perfect center hit.

The taper of the aftermarket shafts have more to do with preference than cueball deflection characteristics. After all the Z shaft has a billiard taper while 314 has long-cylindrical taper.
Click to expand...


Hmm interesting point !!!

I will do some indepth research and see what I can come up with that will clear up any possible misconceptions I may have on this subject....


- Eddie Wheat
 
WheatCues said:
The laminated shafts are designed to flex more which allows the tip to stay on the cueball longer which increases the accuracy significantly !!!

So in short... more shaft deflection decreases cueball deflection !!!!!



- Eddie Wheat
Click to expand...
How much longer will the laminated shaft stay on the cueball as compared to the solid wood shaft?
 
Michael Webb said:
That's because they capitalized on straight sales tactics, Create questionable doubt. Seems to have worked based on their numbers.:bash:
Click to expand...

But that is the way marketing works.
Create a problem ... then offer the solution.

Moochie started all this with the red dot low deflection shaft and their robot arm testing machine.
Predator just took it to the next level.

One of predator adds even infers you will play like a GOD.
Now that takes balls!

There is science behind their claims ... but was their a real problem in the first place? Was deflection keeping players from becoming dead strokes?
 
WilleeCue said:
But that is the way marketing works.
Create a problem ... then offer the solution.

Moochie started all this with the red dot low deflection shaft and their robot arm testing machine.
Predator just took it to the next level.

One of predator adds even infers you will play like a GOD.
Now that takes balls!

There is science behind their claims ... but was their a real problem in the first place? Was deflection keeping players from becoming dead strokes?
Click to expand...

I think it's reversed, Bob came up with the red dot to compete better with Predator, then again with the black dot, I use to say, there is room for all, based on what I have seen in the last year, my opinion is changing. As far as playing like a God, Like I said, create questionable doubt. What ever is comfortable for you and if you have some natural talent, you can compete on any level, For most, especially real working people, You will get as could as you can get based on the time and discipline you can commit to,
 
WilleeCue said:
But that is the way marketing works.
Create a problem ... then offer the solution.

Moochie started all this with the red dot low deflection shaft and their robot arm testing machine.
Predator just took it to the next level.

One of predator adds even infers you will play like a GOD.
Now that takes balls!

There is science behind their claims ... but was their a real problem in the first place? Was deflection keeping players from becoming dead strokes?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is science behind the claims, quite a bit of engineering and R&D. The object was to produce a shaft that deflects the cue-ball to a lesser degree and Predator accomplished this. I respect the effort, money and man-hours it took to achieve the goal. But this doesn't address the question of, 'does reduced deflection improve your level of play?'

Anyone who plays knows that if you use R or L English, the cue-ball will deflect governed by the amount of stroke you put into the shot. All shafts produce CB deflection, just in varying degrees and we mentally COMPENSATE for the deflection. Along comes a shaft that reduces CB deflection by (let's say for this discussion; the numbers vary) 25%. What this means to me is that the range of error of the contact point on the object ball will be reduced by 25%. This is significant. But it's not 100%. You must still compensate for even the reduced deflection. IMO, I'd have to say that it does allow you to be more accurate but only in selection of the object-ball contact point. Your stroke, your speed, how you move the ball, etc. will all play a part in your success at making the shot. Every lttle bit helps and if you can be even just 25% more accurate in that one aspect, then I'd have to say yes, it does have the potential to improve your level of play.
No, the shaft alone will not make you a champion.
It will not improve your social status or make you play like a god. I open the floor for discussion.

Side note :
About 2 yrs. ago I built a Z shaft for my sparring partner. He plays a 62" JW that Bill made for him 25 yrs. ago. 11.75mm shafts and ivory ferrules. After the month it took him to adapt to the shaft, he told me one day, "you know, this thing is cheatin'. I've spent all this time learning the amount of compensation I need to put into every shot but this thing just don't miss. Now all I have to do is aim where you're supposed to and the ball goes in. It's cheatin'. This guy plays reeeeal good.
 
it appears the typical 25% form Platinum Billiards test of Predator against a bunch jump/break cues and some other cheapo production cues over a 50" long full speed shot was used for numbers.pay close attention,the shot used for testing is 15mph and 50" long,it's a friggin break shot.i think the test they performed is completely biased and completely inaccurate.how can they even sleep at night comparing their shaft to a bunch of junk like that.the test shows that at 15mph and over 50" the Pred 314 is basically a 1/4" less deflection than a Players or Sterling,wow.also they say less deflction not more accurate.just b/c it has less deflection doesn't make it more accurate or anymore consistent.


when someone does a test comparing them to Szambotis,Searings,Southwests,etc and they are still 25% more accurate then they might have something,but it will never happen.i have had many shafts that were just as low deflection as Predator and hit tons better.also i want to see the test using a medium speed shot.

maybe one day someone who has no affiliation will run a TRUE test against REAL pool cues and come up with some honest numbers.


even if the Pred is 25% less deflection than the say Fury j/b that does not mean you will be 25% more accurate with the Predator as i saw stated.we are talking aboutmere mm's or less on a typical shot at typical speed. shot at typical speed.


hype and advertising.here are the tests,juslt look at the cues they put up against it for the test.

https://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_deflect.php
 
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Masonh,

The reason Platinum does there test at 15 mph is to eliminate the posibility that the cue ball could swerve due to the spin. Also, they test the products that they sell.

I would love to see the results of any of the traditional cue makers cues with 13mm Ivory ferruled shafts. I think it would scare you! Don't take my word for it, I have a biased opinion. But listen to the Brains that are out there like Dr Dave, and Mike Page, and others like Bob Jewet. They can not only explain it, they can back it up. Actually, I can too, but again, my opinion is biased.

I have plenty of stories to back this up, but basically you would be amazed at how many players games have gone up significantly when they switched to LD Shafts. Not just the OB-1 either! For the great players, they can play with anything, but for us average joes, it helps. Period.

Anyway, remember, I make LD Shafts, so my opinion is biased!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
i understand the ivory deal,but if you cut the ferrules down short with no cap they work fine too and that might surprise you.

i also wasn't trying to knock Platinum,just the testing or the format of the test.the competition isn't fair.it's all break cues and junk compared to a specifically designed shaft.

i understand you're biased and i have tried your shafts.i do like them better than Pred,but i still like plain old good maple with the right taper,tip and ferrule and i would be happy to submit shafts for testing if i witness and help set up the testing.

i also see your point about the 15mph,but it doesn't change the fact that that speed greatly exaggerrates deflection as well.anyway you want to cut it the test isn't really valid,and 25% deflection as doesn't translate diredctly to 25% better accurracy.

keep up the good shafts though.
 
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For me the proof is in the pudding.

When they invented the titanium driver it was a definant product improvement. Long drive records were shattered and golf courses had to be designed longer.

I believe Mosconi's record hasn't been beaten by anyone using a low defection shaft or even come close yet.

I like many others gave low deflection a chance and
I am constantly trying new improvement/ideas often.

But in this case I think there's no school like old school.
 
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