Questions for our Adam/Helmstetter Experts

cuesterpat

cuesterpat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have NOS Helmstetter RH-9 that I am thinking about selling and have a NOS matching Helmstetter extra shaft to go with it. What years was the RH line made and what do you think would be a fair selling price for the cue and original shaft plus the extra shaft?
 
Not an "expert" but:

I believe it might still be available. 350 new, 250 clearance. Much less used. Minimum 150, max 200 maybe?

Not sure when that model began production.

Best guestimate.
 
Adam/Helmstetter Questions

Helmstetters have not been available in the US for several years now. Adam USA brought them in back then. The Adam and Balabushka name cues are now owned by a company in Colorado I believe and those cues are made in China. I ask the question because I did not know the timeframe for the RH line, which were definitely made in Japan.
 
Sorry.

I know about the change. I meant that there are still some NOS on the shelf and last I knew they were in the range I spoke of. I would have to double check but that is what I believe. This would have something to do with estimating value, which was part of your question.
 
cuesterpat said:
Helmstetters have not been available in the US for several years now. Adam USA brought them in back then. The Adam and Balabushka name cues are now owned by a company in Colorado I believe and those cues are made in China. I ask the question because I did not know the timeframe for the RH line, which were definitely made in Japan.
Click to expand...

That's weird. I just looked up Balabushka and the contact information is for Tempe, AZ.

When did they shift from Japan to China? I'm trying to see if the cue I bought in 2002 is Chinese or Japanese made. Went looking for the histories but not finding them.
 
Adam/Helmstetter Cues

In 2002 the GB line was made in Japan. To answer your other guests, the price the Adam Japan was charging the US importer went up drastically in 2008, so the owners of Adam USA decided to fold the company as they had already gotten some of samples of the Chinese made cues and were not happy with the quality. Here is a link to an interesting article I found on Adam cues:
http://www.poolchat.net/forums/index.php?/topic/10186-history-of-helmstetter-adam-balabushka-cues/
 
cuesterpat said:
In 2002 the GB line was made in Japan. To answer your other guests, the price the Adam Japan was charging the US importer went up drastically in 2008, so the owners of Adam USA decided to fold the company as they had already gotten some of samples of the Chinese made cues and were not happy with the quality. Here is a link to an interesting article I found on Adam cues:
http://www.poolchat.net/forums/index.php?/topic/10186-history-of-helmstetter-adam-balabushka-cues/
Click to expand...

Lots of people will say Fast Larry was full of BS, but he knows tons about Adam Japan cues. I don't personally know Larry, butt I talked to him on the phone several times a few years back.

I also have talked to Don a couple of times who imported tons of Adams Japan cues and also Hall of Fame cues that were also made by Adam, but had no maker markings on them.

I lived in Japan from 1982-86 and talked to and visited Dick Helmstetter at his factory in Iruma, Japan while he had one of his Japanese workers put a new ivory ferrule on my Richard Black cue. He gave me a tour and offered to front me a handful of cues for me to sell. He offered to let me have them at no upfront cost and trusted me to sell them and pay him back whatever price he mentioned to me. It was way less than dealer price and he told me to charge whatever I wanted and keep anything over his price to me. Very trusting guy. I declined because there wasn't a big market for them in Japan and very few Americans there played pool or wanted a cue.

I own one now, but I never bought one while I was there. I wish I'd bought a ton of them now and shipped them back to the USA...I could have made some quick profit because he was giving me a super deal.

The Japan-made cues are top quality. I haven't seen one of the Chinese made ones, but I would have to expect the quality is not even close. I also lived in Taiwan for three years where they used to make 90% of the cues being imported into the USA and I never bought one...they were complete junk IMHO. FWIW, when I lived in Taiwan in 1973-76 you couldn't find a pool table on the whole island except for in the military bases. I won the Taiwan island-wide championships in 1975 and 1976 using a house cue off the wall...it was American made. The Chinese didn't play pool, they played snooker. I lived above a Chinese snooker hall.
 
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cuesterpat said:
Helmstetters have not been available in the US for several years now. Adam USA brought them in back then. The Adam and Balabushka name cues are now owned by a company in Colorado I believe and those cues are made in China. I ask the question because I did not know the timeframe for the RH line, which were definitely made in Japan.
Click to expand...

I remember giving them (the company that now sells the Balabushka line of cues) a call a few years ago (when I was needing a rubber bumper for an Adam Balabushka cue that I had), and they told me the the cues are made right here in the USA. They are very pricey, so I have trouble believing that they are actually made in China. That would also mean the guy lied to me over the phone. Is it a fact that they (the Balabushka line of cues) are now made in China?
 
justinb386 said:
I remember giving them (the company that now sells the Balabushka line of cues) a call a few years ago (when I was needing a rubber bumper for an Adam Balabushka cue that I had), and they told me the the cues are made right here in the USA. They are very pricey, so I have trouble believing that they are actually made in China. That would also mean the guy lied to me over the phone. Is it a fact that they (the Balabushka line of cues) are now made in China?
Click to expand...


Yes, they are now made in China.

Yes, they have jacked the price up.

Yes, the Adam (made in Japan) cues were "better" IMHO.


I have no idea why you were told what you were told.


.
 
justinb386 said:
I remember giving them (the company that now sells the Balabushka line of cues) a call a few years ago (when I was needing a rubber bumper for an Adam Balabushka cue that I had), and they told me the the cues are made right here in the USA. They are very pricey, so I have trouble believing that they are actually made in China. That would also mean the guy lied to me over the phone. Is it a fact that they (the Balabushka line of cues) are now made in China?
Click to expand...

I have been told that the new Balabushka line is made in China by several people that used to sell them. I have yet to hear anyone say they are made in the USA.

At one point, the Hall of Fame cues were going to be made in the USA, but I never heard what happened on that deal. I bought one of the HOF cues when they were made in Japan by ADAM. The HOF cues were Balabushka cues without the signature on them and were made by the same people.

Here is a link with a phone number that may give you some information.

http://www.competitionsports.com/

http://www.competitionsports.com/cues-pool.asp
 
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Chopdoc said:
Yes, they are now made in China.

Yes, they have jacked the price up.

Yes, the Adam (made in Japan) cues were "better" IMHO.


I have no idea why you were told what you were told.


.
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Thanks. I believe you, and after reading that article above, I really believe it to be true. The guy on the phone just lied to me (either that, or he did not know the truth himself).
 
HawaiianEye said:
I have been told that the new Balabushka line is made in China by several people that used to sell them. I have yet to hear anyone say they are made in the USA.

At one point, the Hall of Fame cues were going to be made in the USA, but I never heard what happened on that deal. I bought one of the HOF cues when they were made in Japan by ADAM. The HOF cues were Balabushka cues without the signature on them and were made by the same people.

Here is a link with a phone number that may give you some information.

http://www.competitionsports.com/

http://www.competitionsports.com/cues-pool.asp
Click to expand...

If I were to have guessed, I would think that the Hall of Fame cues were made in China. They just look cheap to me. The bumper looks cheap, and the straight grain maple forearms looks cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosconi-2pc...025911?hash=item1eabc7eff7:g:I10AAOSw7aBVDrT4

It just appears to be a cheap looking cue I think. The Adam Bushka segnature series look very high quality though, in my opinion. Very beautiful birds eye maple forearms used in them. I wonder why the Hall of Fame cues were not made just as nice.

I think that maybe the cues that this seller is selling are from China.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosconi-2pc...033928?hash=item1eaaa62488:g:-vkAAOSwBLlVDrFT

They just look really cheap to me.
 
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justinb386 said:
If I were to have guessed, I would think that the Hall of Fame cues were made in China. They just look cheap to me. The bumper looks cheap, and the straight grain maple forearms looks cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosconi-2pc...025911?hash=item1eabc7eff7:g:I10AAOSw7aBVDrT4

It just appears to be a cheap looking cue I think. The Adam Bushka segnature series look very high quality though, in my opinion. Very beautiful birds eye maple forearms used in them. I wonder why the Hall of Fame cues were not made just as nice.

I think that maybe the cues that this seller is selling are from China.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosconi-2pc...033928?hash=item1eaaa62488:g:-vkAAOSwBLlVDrFT

They just look really cheap to me.
Click to expand...

I don't know about now, but at the beginning you could tell the ADAM Japan cues from the others made in China by the silver rings in the joint collars. ADAM used thick (don't know the actual width) silver rings and the Chinese versions used noticeably thinner rings. If I have the cue in-hand, I can spot them immediately.

The one I have from ADAM Japan was the model CS-436. The one in the following link looks like the one I have.

http://www.shootersbilliards.com/George-Balabushka-Replica-Pool-Cue-CS-436.html

Notice the thick rings. I'm not certain that this one was made in Japan but it doesn't have the thinner rings. Also, notice that it doesn't have Bushka rings on each end of the wrap. The wrap is not the same Irish linen as those shown in your links either.

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Edit: Reference your comment about straight-grain maple forearms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Balabushka

"While blank variety is the defining demarcation between one Balabushka cue and another, there are some shared features spanning Balabushka's fleeting 16-year career. Cue forearms were characteristically made with straight-grained maple, based on Balabushka's belief that a single-direction maple grain provided superior integrity to that of curly maple or birdseye maple. He used stainless steel joints and delrin butt caps almost exclusively

Also, see discussion and pictures in the following AZB thread, concerning "real" Balabushka cue forearms.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=105220
 
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