quiet eye technique, golf & pool :
- Thread starter Solartje
- Start date
T said:I agree with and use principals of the quiet eye technique, but I think where a lot of people get mixed up and perhaps frustrated is that there is a big difference beteween focusing your eyes and centering your eyes. Focusing can imply that you zero in on an object and essentially block out everything else. I don't believe that is what the quiet eye technique is about.
I believe the objective is to center or rest your eyes on an object or target while still balancing your attention on the target with your peripheral awareness. Basically your eyes are centered on a target or reference point, but your mind is still seeing the whole picture.
I would be interested if someone disagrees with this.
Resting your eyes on the object ball is something I have always tried to do. It allows TIME for your eyes to collect all of the information that is needed to make a decision and then time enough to send that message to the brain to get the job done. Consistent Eye pattern is probably my biggest problem.
JoeyA
cuekev said:
Scott Lee's school (same as Randy G's) focused on the PEP (Personal Eye Patterns). I thought this was one of the best aspects of the school, and found myself going from "Not paying attention" to my eye patterns to "Having a preset routine for my eye patterns". This may differ from shooter to shooter, and does have slight variations, focusing on the cue ball and the object ball.
Take the class, and you will find your own.
Gregg,
Thanks for the response fellow student. PEP was something at PS that I needed to work on and still do. It seems like when I plug one hole another springs a leak. By the way this week on ESPN Classic they had almost exclusively pendulum strokers. A Fisher, G Y Kim, Kelly Fisher, K Corr. The ladies seem to embrace it more than the men.
Kevin
Thanks for the response fellow student. PEP was something at PS that I needed to work on and still do. It seems like when I plug one hole another springs a leak. By the way this week on ESPN Classic they had almost exclusively pendulum strokers. A Fisher, G Y Kim, Kelly Fisher, K Corr. The ladies seem to embrace it more than the men.
Kevin
sixpack said:
Very good post.
And for JoeW, shooting pool is just like bowling. there are two ways to bowl (1) pick out a spot near you and make the ball go over that spot,(Joe, this is similar to some of the stuff you are propagating with the converging lines and everything) or (2) have you eyes focus on the target and 'feel' your ball as you go back and then into the target.
Method (2) is far superior IMHO. This is the best way on earth you groove your stroke - just let you body have everything flow into the target. Your backswing with straighten itself out magically and you will naturally throw the cue to the target, TOTALLING TRUSTING YOUR STROKE now.
Gregg said:
i live in belgium , and there isn't any class i can take...
My only class and improvements come from AZB and good reads on the internet... if scott wouldn't mind giving me some info on the PEP, and how i can find mine myself, or if he would contribute to this thread i'd very happy .
PS: i tried last night to play , and only alowed my eyes to look at 3 points: cb; ob, pocket. i wasn't looking all over the place when walking around the table and i used a longer quiet eye technique. (really, you would be surprised how much things your eyes see before a shot)
conclusion: even though i didn't play long enough to really measure how big the difference is, this is what I noticed in the short time i tried it:
main advantage: - I shortened my time to get instroke and most of all to really focus. Usually the first 30min of losening up my arm are 4/10 on the concentration scale. Now i was 8/10 on the first pot. If this is true, then i'll finaly be able to remove a problem i had in tournaments: aka it takes me 5 racks before i'm really concentrated for each and every match, no matter of there is only 1minut in between them and by then its often to late. I really have a concentration problem, because i'm always checking out the cute barrgirl , or a shot at another table or what cue someone is using, or the stroke of someone, or the drink on my table, or the keys someone might be hijacking, or the heightdiffernce of the tables, etc etc etc....
I have some kind of concentration disorder.
potting: I didn't see much improvement in the potting % overal, as I only had time to play for an hour and I already have a pritty good potting % so that 1 or 2 misses more or less can't be linked to the technique, but i was potting them more in the centre of the pocket.
zone: I felt a concentration buzz so soon, that i got into the zone after my 3th rack. I'm not sayint it WILL always put you in the zone, but it surely will help. I felt i was on the right path to getting in stroke very quick since the first straight in longpot.
I have been thinking about it, and its similar to what happens when you go to sleep. When you can't sleep and you have your eyes closed, you look at the black image, and wonder around with your eyes. (does it make sence when i say that you are looking with your eyes closed?). When you have the black image in front of you, but you don't "look" at it, like shutting of the link between your eyes and the brain, thats when you will fall asleep. Your eyes dont move, less information even if you are just staring at a black image. I think that reducing the amount of things you see, will give you brain less useless information, Its exactly like a computer:
At home, low stress facture, your CPU and RAM memory work at 100%. Even if you look around wich gives your brain 100% information, you have enough power to process it all.
When in tournaments or moneygames, the external stress and internal stress (ID) will reduce your power to process things. So your power to process things will only be 50%, but if you keep looking at many things, the load will still be 100% and thats when you choke. IF you only look at CB, OB, Pocket, you reduce the load so that the processingpower is enough to run the job smoothly.
I have a National Ranking tournament saterday: i will use this in tournament where there is alot of presure and alot more distractions then at home, and i will let you know how it went.
I just KNOW that starting from B/A level players, if you want to get better (besides practise) its not your technique but your emotions/confidence/attitude/eyes that need to be finetune and i think for myself its the path to go to improve my game. It all just makes so much sence.
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JoeyA said:
joeA, me too. The thing that i found the most
was when you look at the stats of how long they look at what spot.CB and OB where like 3seconds, and others (like the target aka the pocket) was 0.5seconds.I'm talking for myself here, but I found the time they looked at the target SO small... If you check the stats of the good players: playing 3 days a week, i think they are talking about your everyday APA player, but not a pro.. im curious to see what the results would be of 12 pro's added to the equation:
I personally look at the pocket at least 60% of my time
I need to read these articles, etc.
I've been using quiet eye since JoeW brought it up a few months back and I've seen an increase in my potting skills. I"ve used it in conjunction with other methods of increasing my concentration.
Tom Simpson wrote an article in Inisde Pool called 'Nail Bending Focus' and there were some lines in the article (like Mark Wilson's line in my sig) that became instant mantras for me. I like; 'Focusing is the process of getting your intention and your body into agreement and alingment.' I especially like the alingment part. When I focus with nail bending intensity while standing I find that I drop into the shot very methodically and am straight on the aim line with little if any need to aim while down... only need to check it and make sure of tip placement.
Tom says; 'To maximize your accuracy, it's very helpful to engage that nail-bending focus on your precise target before you start to drop and to maintain that clear, single-minded focus throughout the drop. Keep your eyes on the target while you drop.
'If your eyes are focused, your mind is focused. If your mind is focused, your body will carry out your wishes...
'See the target and aboslutely own the line.'
I read this every day as it sits propped up next to my log book where I sit when I rest during practice and clean my cue after practice. It has helped me get the mental focus I've seen in better players (I've noticed that focus especially in Craig McLaren) and need to work on in my game.
I've been using quiet eye since JoeW brought it up a few months back and I've seen an increase in my potting skills. I"ve used it in conjunction with other methods of increasing my concentration.
Tom Simpson wrote an article in Inisde Pool called 'Nail Bending Focus' and there were some lines in the article (like Mark Wilson's line in my sig) that became instant mantras for me. I like; 'Focusing is the process of getting your intention and your body into agreement and alingment.' I especially like the alingment part. When I focus with nail bending intensity while standing I find that I drop into the shot very methodically and am straight on the aim line with little if any need to aim while down... only need to check it and make sure of tip placement.
Tom says; 'To maximize your accuracy, it's very helpful to engage that nail-bending focus on your precise target before you start to drop and to maintain that clear, single-minded focus throughout the drop. Keep your eyes on the target while you drop.
'If your eyes are focused, your mind is focused. If your mind is focused, your body will carry out your wishes...
'See the target and aboslutely own the line.'
I read this every day as it sits propped up next to my log book where I sit when I rest during practice and clean my cue after practice. It has helped me get the mental focus I've seen in better players (I've noticed that focus especially in Craig McLaren) and need to work on in my game.
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I really appreciate this information. Thanks for posting it.
One thing I've noticed over the years is that when in dead stroke, I focus solidly on the OB at address & set, glance to the CB to ensure tip position is correct, and regain focus on the OB before shooting.
When playing poorly, my eyes dart back & forth. I'm a believer in this theory simply on the basis of my own experience.
One thing I've noticed over the years is that when in dead stroke, I focus solidly on the OB at address & set, glance to the CB to ensure tip position is correct, and regain focus on the OB before shooting.
When playing poorly, my eyes dart back & forth. I'm a believer in this theory simply on the basis of my own experience.
Solartje said:joeA, me too. The thing that i found the most
CB and OB where like 3seconds, and others (like the target aka the pocket) was 0.5seconds.I'm talking for myself here, but I found the time they looked at the target SO small... If you check the stats of the good players: playing 3 days a week, i think they are talking about your everyday APA player, but not a pro.. im curious to see what the results would be of 12 pro's added to the equation:
I personally look at the pocket at least 60% of my time
I don't know about other people but I probably barely look at the pocket. When tired or unsure, I may walk over and get behind the object ball to see where in the pocket I want the object ball to travel to but looking at the pocket doesn't occupy even 10% of my time.
I think many of us have similar concentration problems and maybe I should be looking at the pocket longer but I think it is the object ball and everything else that we see with our peripheral vision (at that last moment before pulling the trigger that matters most and the more time we can "easily" rest our eyes on the object ball, the better results we will get.
JoeyA
BigDfromTN
A Banger, but trying!
mosconiac said:
Very Interesting reading here!
In my practice of late it is as if I am doing as you do Moconiac. It seems that when I focus mostly on the OB and just check tip position on CB I pot more balls.
since i quit playing professionally i learned much about my technique.
playing without the ultimate sense of responsability that you have as a pro, i listen to my body better. when my system tells me to look at the cueball when shooting...it's allright, where before i thought i was supposed to look at the point of aim and felt sub-optimal doing so. the shots that i do hit with much more result now by looking at the cueball when i pull the trigger:
elevated shots > +/- 30 degrees
stroking with cb in front of an ob (chinese snooker)
cb on the rail, ob far far away
kick-shots
now it's also easy to accept that i sometimes, on specific shots, aim predominantly with one eye and sometimes more with both.
playing without the ultimate sense of responsability that you have as a pro, i listen to my body better. when my system tells me to look at the cueball when shooting...it's allright, where before i thought i was supposed to look at the point of aim and felt sub-optimal doing so. the shots that i do hit with much more result now by looking at the cueball when i pull the trigger:
elevated shots > +/- 30 degrees
stroking with cb in front of an ob (chinese snooker)
cb on the rail, ob far far away
kick-shots
now it's also easy to accept that i sometimes, on specific shots, aim predominantly with one eye and sometimes more with both.
whitewolf, I'm a standard a player, i read what you said and identified immediately. I focus subconsciously perhaps, at EITHER the cb or ob upon impact. The focus on the specific little bitty spot on your ob takes precedent over everything else. While maintaining that point on the ob, then as normal, go into your normal pre-shot routine. worked 4 me. bottom line, look at ob, not cb after all is lined up, providing youv'e maintained that little spot to hit. Then again, I'm easily excitable.
BigDfromTN
A Banger, but trying!
After trying this in practice more I found it works well for me. Granted Im not even a "player" yet, Just a banger.
I have learned to NOT hit balls so hard and hope!!!
I have also noticed that if I focus on the OB I can align the cue and CB in my periphreal (sp) vision. I do glance at CB once to check tip alignment then right back on OB. This has truly given me better potting ability and some confidence that I did not have. I am cross eye dominant and was struggling with that (physically and Mentally). This info really helped and I look fwd to my game getting better.
Thanks for posting and all the other comments by you much better Players.
I have learned to NOT hit balls so hard and hope!!!
I have also noticed that if I focus on the OB I can align the cue and CB in my periphreal (sp) vision. I do glance at CB once to check tip alignment then right back on OB. This has truly given me better potting ability and some confidence that I did not have. I am cross eye dominant and was struggling with that (physically and Mentally). This info really helped and I look fwd to my game getting better.
Thanks for posting and all the other comments by you much better Players.
There's a pretty good book of drills, Black Belt Billiards, and the web site has a drill to help get the quiet eyes working:
http://www.blackbeltbilliards.net/eyes.html
http://www.blackbeltbilliards.net/eyes.html
I have this drill I do to help me see the shot.
I take the 8 and 1 ball. Put the 8 on the table somewhere then put the 1 right next to it for a straight in shot to a pocket.
Then, I go to certain points around the table and just look at the 1 ball.
This really has helped me see where the cue ball is gonna be when it hits the object ball in order to pocket the ball, plus see where the cue is gonna go after the hit.
Seeing the ghost as I call it.
I take the 8 and 1 ball. Put the 8 on the table somewhere then put the 1 right next to it for a straight in shot to a pocket.
Then, I go to certain points around the table and just look at the 1 ball.
This really has helped me see where the cue ball is gonna be when it hits the object ball in order to pocket the ball, plus see where the cue is gonna go after the hit.
Seeing the ghost as I call it.
I would like to add some more thoughts.
I have been having better results when I dont blink during the preshot routine. At first i thought I was just sharking myself just like if someone would ask, are you breathing in or out when you shoot, but the more i think of it, the more it does have some kind of logic explenation.
Look at this dot
*
Now close your eyes for 2 seconds and look back at the dot.
How long did it take before you eyes could see the dot clear again? EAch time you blink, you eyes start a new calculation of what you are seeing. IF like me you blink alot, this means your eyes are continously reevaluating the situation. This can't be good?
I also think that when you are lowering yourself into position it is VERY important to continue looking at the whole picture. Dont just look at the cloth where your hand will go, look DURING the bending movement if the full pocket, cb, ob, body alignment looks right.
i find that if i dont blink from the moment i bend down, till the moment i finished my stroke, I'm removing the period of time where my eyes have to readapt to what it is seeing, and re-evaluate the whole 3d image.
I found out that im not blinking when i'm in stroke, and i blink alot when i'm nervous and miss alot during analyses of my videotapes of trainingsessions at home. This is the best explenation i could give to the whole theory.
While watching this weekends snooker finale between carter and swail, i also noticed several pro snookerplayers who while they are warming up there stroke, the very slightly move there head left to right. only an inch or so. I think they use the different 3d visions they have by moving there head, as information for the brain to process on wheter the whole shots looks on and to see if the 3d transformations of a 2d imagine isn't playing some kind of optical ilusion on them. I haven't tried it, but I will try this for some time and see what results im getting.
PS since i have adapted my vision, i have made the biggest progress i have ever made since i started playing pool. I'm not joking, or bluffing or whatever.
I have equalised my record of break and run's, made my first 10ball break and run's, and ive beaten the ghost for the first time in a race to 10.
I always thought i missed a ball because i didnt stroke well, or didnt hit the cb where i wanted, or because of my bridgehand that wasnt placed well or a bad body aligment, now i know i missed 50% of my shots because of PURE bad eye rhitme and alignment. I wish you could be me for a second, so you could experience the same improvements i am having... but you'll have to believe me on my word. Try it, what do you have to lose?
post about shafts, cues, aiming techniques etc have had many thousands of reactions and are the most read post on the forum. but they didnt make me play 1/10th better than eye patterns have made me.
Happy solly who went from B to A- player in 1 month since ive started experimenting with eye techniques.
I have been having better results when I dont blink during the preshot routine. At first i thought I was just sharking myself just like if someone would ask, are you breathing in or out when you shoot, but the more i think of it, the more it does have some kind of logic explenation.
Look at this dot
*
Now close your eyes for 2 seconds and look back at the dot.
How long did it take before you eyes could see the dot clear again? EAch time you blink, you eyes start a new calculation of what you are seeing. IF like me you blink alot, this means your eyes are continously reevaluating the situation. This can't be good?
I also think that when you are lowering yourself into position it is VERY important to continue looking at the whole picture. Dont just look at the cloth where your hand will go, look DURING the bending movement if the full pocket, cb, ob, body alignment looks right.
i find that if i dont blink from the moment i bend down, till the moment i finished my stroke, I'm removing the period of time where my eyes have to readapt to what it is seeing, and re-evaluate the whole 3d image.
I found out that im not blinking when i'm in stroke, and i blink alot when i'm nervous and miss alot during analyses of my videotapes of trainingsessions at home. This is the best explenation i could give to the whole theory.
While watching this weekends snooker finale between carter and swail, i also noticed several pro snookerplayers who while they are warming up there stroke, the very slightly move there head left to right. only an inch or so. I think they use the different 3d visions they have by moving there head, as information for the brain to process on wheter the whole shots looks on and to see if the 3d transformations of a 2d imagine isn't playing some kind of optical ilusion on them. I haven't tried it, but I will try this for some time and see what results im getting.
PS since i have adapted my vision, i have made the biggest progress i have ever made since i started playing pool. I'm not joking, or bluffing or whatever.
I have equalised my record of break and run's, made my first 10ball break and run's, and ive beaten the ghost for the first time in a race to 10.
I always thought i missed a ball because i didnt stroke well, or didnt hit the cb where i wanted, or because of my bridgehand that wasnt placed well or a bad body aligment, now i know i missed 50% of my shots because of PURE bad eye rhitme and alignment. I wish you could be me for a second, so you could experience the same improvements i am having... but you'll have to believe me on my word. Try it, what do you have to lose?
post about shafts, cues, aiming techniques etc have had many thousands of reactions and are the most read post on the forum. but they didnt make me play 1/10th better than eye patterns have made me.
Happy solly who went from B to A- player in 1 month since ive started experimenting with eye techniques.
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No Blinking
Solartje,
Thanks for the tip. I think so much of our game comes from confidence and much of that comes from a clear complete image of the shot we are about to take. If pieces of that image are missing doubt creeps in and thats when we move or flinch.
Good stuff I will watch out for blinking during my shot process. Rep to you.
Thanks! :smile:
Solartje,
Thanks for the tip. I think so much of our game comes from confidence and much of that comes from a clear complete image of the shot we are about to take. If pieces of that image are missing doubt creeps in and thats when we move or flinch.
Good stuff I will watch out for blinking during my shot process. Rep to you.
Thanks! :smile: