Quote from Tony Robles on ABR

[thintowin]

wow, is this the same movie that i've watched? did "reefer madness still influence the way we think about weed today? the polls say different ...

what hurt professional pool is the group of players or maybe all of them who continue to split pots instead of playing till the finish as all major sports do, and the pot chopping is the least of the sins such as throwing matches and such. and what do we do, well most of us glorify these players on one hand and on the other they blame a movie.

times are a changing and maybe professional pool is where it is supposed to be. everybody wants a quick fix and pool just isn't designed for quick fixes. unless u were born a savant it takes years to get better and sometimes ,,, well no matter what aiming system, chalk or dvd u use it just doesn't happen.

pool in general is in decline because the working man no longer can afford to lose a wager or two because his job doesn't allow for it, so we do what all humans do when something is out of our control; they scapegoat or create a boogieman. as someone said previously they sound like today's congress.

talk radio is designed not to inform but to attract those that have similar thoughts. in my opinion, it's just a bunch of hot air unless u want to wager on it, but that would be hustling ... give me a break.

 

[Johnnyt]

The movie "The Hustler" did more for pool than anything else in the history of pool IMO. It inspired more people to play than can be imagined. We can debate the problems with pool but there's enough blame to go around for everything.

The Hustler and COM were a huge bang for pool, but as usual the industry screwed it up. Two movies about hustling pool and the BCA and Brunswick try to key on family poolrooms. Johnnyt

 

[fat Albert]

Why does it matter if Tony Gambles ? He is most arguably the most professional , most high character pool person in pool today they come no better in the pool world.

 

[Scott Lee]

thintowin...I agreed with everything you said...except this. If you would have said "some" talk radio is designed not to inform, but to attract those that have similar thoughts", I would have agreed, and wouldn't mention this. However, it's not true that all talk radio doesn't inform, nor is it true that all talk radio doesn't inform accurately. PBS is crowded with excellent, articulate and accurate talk radio. ABR fills that bill quite nicely for the game all of us are so passionate about. While it is not their job, necessarily, to ask the "tough" questions (read: harass the guest), at least they are getting access to movers and shakers across the pool industry, and getting information about pool out to a growing audience.

The way the show is being formatted, imo, makes it attractive for any listener, poolplayer or not. No doubt that was the intent. Mr. Bond, like noone before him, has created a real world image for pool, that is put together in a fun, quick-paced montage of pool-related information. The really cool part is that people all over the world can listen in, enjoy the program, and tell their friends, who can then listen to the archived programs, which will create more 'subscribing' listeners, who may become poolplayers, if they aren't already! Way to go Dave! I think you have hit on what can easily be a "win-win" scenario for pool...not something you see all that often! I'm proud to be a small part of it! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

talk radio is designed not to inform but to attract those that have similar thoughts. in my opinion, it's just a bunch of hot air unless u want to wager on it, but that would be hustling ... give me a break.

 

[The Kiss]

I disagree with that thinking. Those 2 movies did more for the game of pool than just about anything. The guy to thank is more likely Minnesota Fats for stirring up the image of a hustler. In the Hustler Eddie is seeking to match up with the best. Not to hustle a few nobodies along the way.

 

[Johnnyt]

Why does it matter if Tony Gambles ? He is most arguably the most professional , most high character pool person in pool today they come no better in the pool world.

I agree that Tony is one of the good guys in pool. That does not make him right. My point is that players that don't gamble say the hustling and dark side of pool is why it isn't mainstream. Maybe 10% of the people that saw the Hustler and COM were pool players. What does that tell you? Johnnyt

 

[Scott Lee]

It tells me that they were well made movies starring well known actors. That doesn't take away from Tony's observation that corporate America still observes overall that pool is a 'seedy' sport associated with hustling. That doesn't make corporate America right, but it certainly gives them a reason to stay at arm's length in association with pool...and yes, I know the difference between gambling and hustling.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I agree that Tony is one of the good guys in pool. That does not make him right. My point is that players that don't gamble say the hustling and dark side of pool is why it isn't mainstream. Maybe 10% of the people that saw the Hustler and COM were pool players. What does that tell you? Johnnyt

 

[itsfroze]

As it seems to becoming a pattern I turn on ABR excited to listen, and soon I'm
fighting myself not to turn it off, and the later wins.

A line from Johnnyt's post:

" The shows started off good IMO, but they are starting to sound like the same old thing "don't rock the pool boat". Agree with everyone from the industry"

I agree, and it's a shame.
*********
A line from Scott Lee's post:

"While it is not their job, necessarily, to ask the "tough" questions (read: harass the guest), at least they are getting access to movers and shakers across the pool industry, and getting information about pool out to a growing audience. "

First of all I agree I think the audience is growing, smaller, unfortunately.

Secondly when you don't ask the hard questions it's like selling watered down booze,
eventually people catch on and move along, nothing to see here!

It's a really sad day in America when you think asking a hard question of a guest is "harassing the guest" LOL (While I do listen to what you say, I must take what you say ( about the show) with a grain of salt, as you do have a segment on this show)

Access to movers and shakers is meaningless and further more a disservice to not
only your listeners, but to the sport in general, if everything they say is met with a head nod of agreement.

If your job was to interview people and you didn't ask "the hard" questions most likely
it wouldn't be long before you were looking for work.

To portray asking tough questions as harassment is to portray a show that doesn't ask them as a success. Neither would be correct!
*********
Tony Robles represents everything good in a person and is one of Pro Pools finest
ambassadors to the game. Any parent would be proud to have a child of theirs grow up to be the man Tony is.
Yes Tony places wagers on the out come of his Pool games or at least he did back when I lived in NYC. However you would be much more likely to hear anyone who
knows him, refer to Tony as a gentleman rather than a hustler. That being said I also see nothing wrong with placing a bet on Pool match. (My opinion of coarse).
*********
A quote from Tony Robles on ABR-

"I believe that, as great a film as the "The Hustler" (Movie) is, that film literally took Pool back to the stone age, because everyone I've met from every walk of life when I'm giving instruction, asks me if I'm a 'Hustler'... And that's become a big burden for pool."


I happen to believe that Tony's students ask this because they find it intriguing.
The interest in and prosperity of these movies I think says it all, and is in agreement with my thinking.
Which is, this is the history of Pool and to try and sweep this under the rug is a mistake
and won't work anyway. People (many of whom live sheltered lives) are interested in these things!
Hell, Gun Fighters, Bank Robbers, and Mobsters are romanticized, and have been for years, and much interest is shown.

Really, some guys gambled on Pool, is the problem ? I think not !

The thinking that this is the problem, is the problem. What do I mean?
It's like the police arresting and putting the wrong guy in jail for murder, that leaves the real culprit still out there.
It's the same here, it's easier to blame gambling and to condemn Pool for eternity
than to find root cause of the problem.
To continue doing this is as productive as a dog chasing it's tail.

I have to whole-heartedly disagree with this, as both the Hustler and the COM were a
huge boom in their respective times, to Pool and the Pool industry.
If you were to take these two movies out of Pools history there would be far fewer
rooms and players today, than there are. So on this subject I will have to agree to disagree with Tony's view.
*********
I lived in NYC at this time (COM release) and Chelsea Billiards opened up with many more rooms following right on Chelsea's heels.
Chelsea had 54 Gold crowns, 6 Snooker tables, and 2 heated Billiard tables and waiting lists for tables the same for many other rooms at the time and not just in the city either. Rooms did well all over in those days, well at least for a few years.

I just want to see Pool and the players proper, and ABR also.
To go along not asking the "Tough Questions" and excepting the same old pat answers from the "movers and shakers" is just a form of "Drinking The Kool-Aide"
or choking to use a Pool term!

AS it's already well documented what things the Pro Players have done wrong.

This business of acting like anything can and should be said to or about the Pro Players
and it's alright. While the "movers and shakers" can't or shouldn't even be asked a
tough question, really gets under my skin.

If there are things the "movers and shakers" aren't doing that they should or if
there are things they have done or are still doing that they shouldn't be doing these things should be brought out into the light for everyone to see.

When things are left in the dark it's only giving anyone doing wrong a free pass to continue.

Good Night, I'm out of breath.



.

 

[Petros Andrikop]

The effect of the movie "The Hustler" on Pool and what in general is the state of Pool are two different things, the second leads to the well known endless discussions.
There is also a difference between gambling, hustling and challenge matches, they are three different things.
So let's focus on the matter that started this thread, I'll try to offer some "key" points:

-The part of Pool "legacy" that is preserved on the movie has without any doubt a distinct value.

-If the most known tournament champion Willie Mosconi participated in that movie, in a very humble role apart from perfoming shots and offering instruction, then we should all realize the significance of the movie in promoting Pool. After all Willie Mosconi did know what was needed to promote the sport and did it throughout his career.

-Since then the game has changed and as another member stated the affect of an old movie could not be the same anymore, nevertheless even if the way the game was presented then was controversial it did make the game more known to the masses.

-Even when someone approaches the game in a more "sport view" the lessons from that movie on how the game is played are numerous, especially in terms of psychology and the necessity for knowledge of the game remaining in every match that is displayed.

-We all have to admit that we did love the game a bit more due to films like these, there is some serious history of it preserved there and however we feel/think about the game today that is something we will always carry with us..
Petros

 

[Island Drive]

The movie "The Hustler" did more for pool than anything else in the history of pool IMO. It inspired more people to play than can be imagined. We can debate the problems with pool but there's enough blame to go around for everything.

I think it was the Color of Money that gave our industry the ten million bump in player numbers, when hustler came out there was a pool room in every town in the states and action.

 

[Island Drive]

Why does it matter if Tony Gambles ? He is most arguably the most professional , most high character pool person in pool today they come no better in the pool world.

Mark Wilson took that path years ago, I wondered why as a youngster, but understood in time.

 

[Scott Lee]

Wow...you paint with a pretty broad brush there sir. In the first place, the word is PORTRAY, not portrait. Second, ABR is informative ENTERTAINMENT, not investigative reporting. Third, Tony said that "corporate America" keeps a 'hands off' attitude towards professional pool, because of a perception of hustling...not gambling. He is not wrong. The view of 'corporate America' may be wrong, but that doesn't change their perspective. Since when is everybody at ABR "agreeing" with everything that somebody being interviewed happens to say? Seems to me that the person who posts as ABR made some pretty pointed statements about Larry...as did I. However, we weren't the person interviewing him, were we? Why don't you dog Mike Howerton?

As far as Archer's "interview"...again, Mark Cantrill was doing the interviewing. Why don't you chastise him for not asking the "hard questions"? The program offers a view into the inner thoughts and workings of some of the people that are high profile in the pool industry, whether they be players, promoters, room owners, association principles, or whatever. Just because you don't happen to agree with the interviewer's style does not make it wrong, or a "disservice to the listener", as you put it. Lastly, if you believe that just because I was asked to provide some instructional tips, that makes me somebody's lap dog yes man...well you don't know me at all (and, in fact, you don't know me at all). The show continues to interview high profile individuals connected to pool in one way or another. If you don't like it...don't listen.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

As it seems to becoming a pattern I turn on ABR excited to listen, and soon I'm
fighting myself not to turn it off, and the later wins.

A line from Johnnyt's post:

" The shows started off good IMO, but they are starting to sound like the same old thing "don't rock the pool boat". Agree with everyone from the industry"

I agree, and it's a shame.
*********
A line from Scott Lee's post:

"While it is not their job, necessarily, to ask the "tough" questions (read: harass the guest), at least they are getting access to movers and shakers across the pool industry, and getting information about pool out to a growing audience. "

First of all I agree I think the audience is growing, smaller, unfortunately.

Secondly when you don't ask the hard questions it's like selling watered down booze,
eventually people catch on and move along, nothing to see here!

It's a really sad day in America when you think asking a hard question of a guest is "harassing the guest" LOL (While I do listen to what you say, I must take what you say ( about the show) with a grain of salt, as you do have a segment on this show)

Access to movers and shakers is meaningless and further more a disservice to not
only your listeners, but to the sport in general, if everything they say is met with a head nod of agreement.

If your job was to interview people and you didn't ask "the hard" questions most likely
it wouldn't be long before you were looking for work.

To portrait asking tough questions as harassment is to portrait a show that doesn't ask them as a success. Neither would be correct!
*********
Tony Robles represents everything good in a person and is one of Pro Pools finest
ambassadors to the game. Any parent would be proud to have a child of theirs grow up to be the man Tony is.
Yes Tony places wagers on the out come of his Pool games or at least he did back when I lived in NYC. However you would be much more likely to hear anyone who
knows him, refer to Tony as a gentleman rather than a hustler. That being said I also see nothing wrong with placing a bet on Pool match. (My opinion of coarse).
*********
A quote from Tony Robles on ABR-

"I believe that, as great a film as the "The Hustler" (Movie) is, that film literally took Pool back to the stone age, because everyone I've met from every walk of life when I'm giving instruction, asks me if I'm a 'Hustler'... And that's become a big burden for pool."


I happen to believe that Tony's students ask this because they find it intriguing.
The interest in and prosperity of these movies I think says it all, and is in agreement with my thinking.
Which is, this is the history of Pool and to try and sweep this under the rug is a mistake
and won't work anyway. People (many of whom live sheltered lives) are interested in these things!
Hell, Gun Fighters, Bank Robbers, and Mobsters are romanticized, and have been for years, and much interest is shown.

Really, some guys gambled on Pool, is the problem ? I think not !

The thinking that this is the problem, is the problem. What do I mean?
It's like the police arresting and putting the wrong guy in jail for murder, that leaves the real culprit still out there.
It's the same here, it's easier to blame gambling and to condemn Pool for eternity
than to find root cause of the problem.
To continue doing this is as productive as a dog chasing it's tail.

I have to whole-heartedly disagree with this, as both the Hustler and the COM were a
huge boom in their respective times, to Pool and the Pool industry.
If you were to take these two movies out of Pools history there would be far fewer
rooms and players today, than there are. So on this subject I will have to agree to disagree with Tony's view.
*********
I lived in NYC at this time (COM release) and Chelsea Billiards opened up with many more rooms following right on Chelsea's heels.
Chelsea had 54 Gold crowns, 6 Snooker tables, and 2 heated Billiard tables and waiting lists for tables the same for many other rooms at the time and not just in the city either. Rooms did well all over in those days, well at least for a few years.

I just want to see Pool and the players proper, and ABR also.
To go along not asking the "Tough Questions" and excepting the same old pat answers from the "movers and shakers" is just a form of "Drinking The Kool-Aide"
or choking to use a Pool term!

AS it's already well documented what things the Pro Players have done wrong.

This business of acting like anything can and should be said to or about the Pro Players
and it's alright. While the "movers and shakers" can't or shouldn't even be asked a
tough question, really gets under my skin.

If there are things the "movers and shakers" aren't doing that they should or if
there are things they have done or are still doing that they shouldn't be doing these things should be brought out into the light for everyone to see.

When things are left in the dark it's only giving anyone doing wrong a free pass to continue.

Good Night, I'm out of breath.



.

 

[justadub]

The show is only a few weeks old.

They are trying to get people involved in the pool industry to come on their brand new show and talk to them.

If they come out of the gates swinging, firing the hard questions, how long do you think it will be before they stop getting the big names in the industry to appear? Do you think that if they put out a few weeks worth of interviews with people that are getting bombarded with the hard questions, that others aren't going to know about it? And then just say "sure, I'll come on your radio show, what could go wrong?"

Give them time. Perhaps, once the show becomes established, it will be more important to the guest than to the show that they appear, and then there may be the potential for a bit more in-depth questioning.

I haven't listened to this weeks show yet, but I'm looking forward to catching up tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for doing it, gang.

 

[itsfroze]

Thanks for pointing out the correct word was portray when spell check said it was spelled right I thought I had it right, just the wrong word, OOPS.

Like I said I listen until I can't. I don't believe corporate America feels that way.
Look at history corporate America has gotten behind Pro Pool before and
will again, once there is a tour produced that is worthy.

I stated my opinion and will continue to do so. So sorry it displeases you.

I would love to see pool and ABR succeed and improve and think constructive
criticism is more help than fawning over ABR.

You're welcome to the last post on this, as I've said what I had to say.
Have a great day!

 

[justadub]

Thanks for pointing out the correct word was portray when spell check said it was spelled right I thought I had it right, just the wrong word, OOPS.

Like I said I listen until I can't. I don't believe corporate America feels that way.
I stated my opinion and will continue to do so. So sorry it displeases you.

I would love to see pool and ABR succeed and improve and think constructive
criticism is more help than fawning over ABR.

You're welcome to the last post on this, as I've said what I had to say.
Have a great day!

There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism. In fact, its necessary.

There is also nothing wrong with people debating said criticism. It, too, can be necessary.

 

[itsfroze]

I agree with you. ^^^^^^^^

 

[Scott Lee]

Bruce...Thank you for a sane, intelligent response. It seems that some here can't see the bigger picture, and how ABR fits into that picture.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

The show is only a few weeks old.

They are trying to get people involved in the pool industry to come on their brand new show and talk to them.

If they come out of the gates swinging, firing the hard questions, how long do you think it will be before they stop getting the big names in the industry to appear? Do you think that if they put out a few weeks worth of interviews with people that are getting bombarded with the hard questions, that others aren't going to know about it? And then just say "sure, I'll come on your radio show, what could go wrong?"

Give them time. Perhaps, once the show becomes established, it will be more important to the guest than to the show that they appear, and then there may be the potential for a bit more in-depth questioning.

I haven't listened to this weeks show yet, but I'm looking forward to catching up tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for doing it, gang.

 

[(((Satori)))]

ITSFROZE-

"The thinking that this is the problem, is the problem. What do I mean?
It's like the police arresting and putting the wrong guy in jail for murder, that leaves the real culprit still out there.
It's the same here, it's easier to blame gambling and to condemn Pool for eternity
than to find root cause of the problem."








The movie, or hustling in general, is not the problem. The pros are not the problem either. There are a lot of pros, and with a few exceptions most are really good guys. Boxing on the other hand has plenty of shady characters in every facet of the industry. They have a rep. for having fixed fights or fighters dumping, criminals as athletes, etc. yet they can generate sponsors. Major sponsors at that. Not all sponsors are concerned with a sport needing a prestine image, they just want to be able to reach fans who will buy their product. Not having fans is the problem and the reason corporate America doesn't want to get involved with pool.

Corporate America will not sponsor pool because they need to get something out of the deal. They need a sport with a lot of fans who are going to take an interest in the event being sponsored. This falls on the promoters. A promoters number 1 job is to generate fans. A well produced event with fans is a win/win/win/win scenario for the promoter/sponsors/players/& fans, and possibly even a T.V. network as well. Pro pool needs fans and what do some of the promoters in this industry do? They dog Johnny Archer on the internet through podcasts and a public forum, they dog Rodney, they dog Stevie Moore etc. LOL, they dog the pro players, the product the fans pay to see. They shred the players image and destroy a part of the small fan base that the promoting has been able to generate previously. "Fans" are left with a bad taste in their mouth, a dislike for the pros and we are actually one step further from getting the corporate sponsors because the sport has less fans. Good job!

 

[dardusm]

I would agree, wholeheartedly to this...

"I believe that, as great a film as the "The Hustler" (Movie) is, that film literally took Pool back to the stone age, because everyone I've met from every walk of life when I'm giving instruction, asks me if I'm a 'Hustler'... And that's become a big burden for pool."

- Tony Robles on this week's American Billiard Radio Show! www.americanbilliardradio.com

Tony is a stand up guy and great role model when it comes to the game/sport. No denying that. But, pool was in a depression when The Hustler came out and started a pool boom that lasted several years with many rooms opening. The same thing happened with TCOM.

The answer to pool's ills isn't an easy one. The demographics of the sport is aging and that needs to change. To get pool in the schools and to younger players, the image has to be cleaned up and that is what Tony is talking about. The sport as it sits isn't fan friendly. There are so many options for entertainment. It's a tough situation. Pool needs a younger version of Barry Hearn that can brand the game and cross it over to the mainstream. The gambling side still has allure. The DCC is a testament to that. Maybe it should embrace both the tournament and gambling persona? If that's possible.

 

[sfleinen]

The show is only a few weeks old.

They are trying to get people involved in the pool industry to come on their brand new show and talk to them.

If they come out of the gates swinging, firing the hard questions, how long do you think it will be before they stop getting the big names in the industry to appear? Do you think that if they put out a few weeks worth of interviews with people that are getting bombarded with the hard questions, that others aren't going to know about it? And then just say "sure, I'll come on your radio show, what could go wrong?"

Give them time. Perhaps, once the show becomes established, it will be more important to the guest than to the show that they appear, and then there may be the potential for a bit more in-depth questioning.

I haven't listened to this weeks show yet, but I'm looking forward to catching up tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for doing it, gang.

Bruce...Thank you for a sane, intelligent response. It seems that some here can't see the bigger picture, and how ABR fits into that picture.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I also agree, guys. Bruce nails it. If you look back on TV's most successful "address the problem" type of shows -- e.g. 60 Minutes, Hardline, Face the Nation, Bill Moyers, ...etc. -- you'll see that these shows didn't start out with guns blazing and fists swinging. They started out slow or fairly innocuous, ramped up the energy, stepped off the gas, ramped it up again, stepped off, etc. You have to have a sinusoidal ebb and flow as the show goes on. Otherwise, a consistent "I'll show you!" shake-your-fist approach to addressing issues with a propane torch burns the show out quickly.

Another thing -- I happen to be in Tony Robles' camp and support him in what some of the "dark side glorification" shows did to pool -- pigeon-holing it for the long term. Don't get me wrong, "The Hustler" and TCOM are in my DVD collection, and on a stormy night, my wife and I love popping them into the DVD player and sitting back with a bottle of wine. We LOVE these two movies -- they're among our favorites. But what these movies did, is to permanently pigeon-hole pool.

JohnnyT likes to offer the statistical question that only 10% of the folks that watched these two movies were pool players. That may be true -- and the rub is that this statistic can be used against what he thought he was using it for. That is, if 90% were NOT pool players, that is PRECISELY why these movies had the effect on the general non-pool-playing population they did. That is why the term "hustler" is now used by any non-pool-playing person when they see excellence on the pool table. In other words, "if you're good, you MUST be hustling for money." No give and take. No middle ground. It's either "Joe-Bob plays a game of pool once in a blue moon," or if you're good, you're an outright hustler. What happened to the professional image of pool in the public's eyes, as a legitimate sport where you can have excellence WITHOUT the seedy gambling side? <Poof!> That vanished because of these two movies.

Don't get me wrong, there's a part of me that loves this side of pool, because, hey, I admit -- I partake in that side on occasion as well, and I love the exhilaration of putting my skills out there to test them. But it doesn't have to be this "all or nothing" image that the public has, due to these two movies. That's what Tony was trying to get across. He wasn't saying "damn those two movies!" He was saying that if you want to trace where this comes from, you need to look no further than them.

-Sean